Three years since Black Prince bowed down to First

[jackh]

Well tomorrow, it will be three years since Black Prince ran their last services in Leeds when First Leeds had taken over the "good will" of the business and both networks merged.

Time just disappears doesn't it!

[jimbob90]

Cant believe it's been three years already. Was in Morley this afternoon and remembered when Queen Street used to be full of Volvo Ailsas!

[Craig]

What is quite amazing is that 3 years on First have maintained the network additions it took on following the end of Black Prince rather than cutting or withdrawing them - the 46, 85, 87 and 88 all still covering the old routes and the increased frequencies on the 51 and 55 still exist. Just goes to show that Black Prince had a well built and popular network of services.

[jackh]

Jul 30, 2008 20:02:37 GMT 1 Craig said:

What is quite amazing is that 3 years on First have maintained the network additions it took on following the end of Black Prince rather than cutting or withdrawing them - the 46, 85, 87 and 88 all still covering the old routes and the increased frequencies on the 51 and 55 still exist.

Well the Saturday frequency of the 51/51A (was 52) has gone back to every 10 minutes as it was before the takeover. Whats more, the 51/51A got the new Geminis back in 2006.

Well the 53 did vanish eventually with the enhanced 55 covering the Cottingley Estate and the 51 extending from Morley Town Hall to Tingley Mills on the loop.

The 85/87 used to be combined to operate every 15 minutes between Middleton Arms and Leeds Bus Stn but was cut to every 20 minutes.

[Craig]

For the sake of making a shorter post, I was ignoring the slight reduction of the Saturday 51 frequency.

First's 53 when introduced was almost identical to the 55, so that 15-minute frequency is still maintained today. The only difference in the 53 was in serving the Glen Estate, which is now partly covered by the 85. The 55 then went back to stopping at the Town Hall - it should never have been extended to Tingley instead of the 51 for those first few months.

The 85 was cut to hourly, but the 424 it replaced was hourly anyway. I had however missed out the fact that the 87 Morley to Middleton section was also cut to hourly from Black Prince's 30 min headway.

[kendall17]

the 88's run up to colton was cut and replaced by the 78, the twirlies from the lulworths etc have to get 2 buses into leeds or face what potentially could be a long walk to selby road/station road or even crossgates

There is no doubt in my mind that i miss the Black Prince especially the 88s, wonder if BP had continued that they would have updated their fleet by now? maybe some dublin deckers?

[jackh]

Doesn't the 78 run into Leeds now via St James Hospital and yet another bus route to enter into Woodhouse!

[olympian]

A web site dedicated to Black prince with the last day photos as well.

www.blackprincebuses.fotopic.net/

[Craig]

Perhaps my point has been missed here - I was commenting on how the old BP network that First adopted originally is pretty much the same as First still operates now - other than the reduction of the 87 frequency as mentioned above. Perhaps it wasn't worth mentioning, it's just that my cynicism led me to believe that 3 years down the line everything would have been axed!

[jackh]

Yeah, just think of the carnage if Arriva had taken them over...

[Craig]

...By now Morley would have one bus per hour to Leeds and the 85 would have been incorporated into another once per day variation of route 153 (no two journeys go the same way!).

[kendall17]

3 Years on and Blytshwood Motors still have 3 ex BP scania deckers up for sale. wonder why they weren't taken on by First?

www.blytshwoodmotors.co.uk if anyone is interested. or looking for something to preserve! £12,000 for each of the beasts! easily get them down to £7500 as they aint exactly fast sellers

[jimbob90]

I think First handled the Takeover very well. As Jack said, within one year of the takeover, the 51/51A route had a major upgrade from the old Scania Deckers and Optare Prismas to brand new Low-Floor Eclipse Geminis and gaining Overground status.
If only they maintained their investment, as many of them look quite shabby now.
Maybe it's about time First gave the 51/51A a new Overground colour, either Green Line or Yellow Line?

[jackh]

...it had taken over two years for the buses to get Magenta Line programmed into 51/51A destinations on the screens. So I wouldn't hold your breath on that!

[jimbob90]

True! a couple of Hunslet's ALX400s and Geminis still display Green/Yellow Line!

[nick]

(These may seem repeative).
First have done quite well to say the least.

53-is now the 55 on a 15 min frequency

751-is now a improved 51/51A with the 71 taking the latter upto primley park and back

752-i knew wouldnt last

X51-a improved 55 service aswell as 51/51A has proven very well

88-a slight alteration on the route (i still think it should of gone all the way to Colton and back) but hey a good decsision by first

54-South of leeds replaced by the 55 and 51/51A services. North by a new and improved 18/18A service with a slight increase in capacity. Moor Grange replaced by
56

87-The route split into 3 alterations now only 2 with one terminating at Middleton aswell as increase of capacity on the 13/13A/12

First have done well although when the take over happend i didnt like that all the BP fleet went to Kirkstall first(why does everything new got to kirkstall(hunslet) even if it is crap they always go to kirkstall before Bramley then bye bye). I dont think if that we could of predicted that first would of done soo well.
But a question here, if the take over was now, and in your opinion what would you do to the routes baring in mind that the
74/75 would of still be running,
88 to colton and back,
X51/X49 to morley,
53 all morley-primley park,
751 to east end park and primley park?

[markr]

I still lament the passing of the 752 as it was a useful link between Kirkstall Morrisons and Burley Park station, being the only bus route on Stanmore Hill - thereafter it was duplicating 56 as far as Eastgate and 95 (later 28) from Eastgate to Clarence Dock, so was maybe not so useful on that stretch, although if I'd waited 20 minutes for a 56 I would give up on First and hand my money over to Black Prince even on City-bound trips.
Remember, neither Stanmore Hill nor Beechwood Crescent have a bus route now, where once the 752 and 63 ran respectively - that is my only major complaint about the takeover of Black Prince and the subsequent evolution of Leeds' bus services from First.

[Craig]

Nick, you were right, your post was largely repetitive, so why bother? Also a small point, but the 53/751 only ever ran to Lingfield Circus not Primley Park.

It's a shame both the 63 and 752 were dropped, but then they just can't have been making money. The 63 route had in one form or another ran for many years though.

[jackh]

I had travelled on the 63 myself on the Headingley side of the route before the section was withdrawn, it was lightly loaded so it was somewhat inevitable that it was going to be dropped.

Would of the 752 been kept if First hadn't extended the 92 to the Tannery before Black Prince folded to have maintained a link between the two though?

[Craig]

Probably not, because First wanted rid of the 63, so they were unlikely to have then take over another route that covered similar ground. Hence the 752 was immediately dumped (and briefly reprised by Geldards before they also realised it wouldn't earn its keep). Black Prince however had a tendency for keeping routes which didn't necessarily earn well.

[jackh]

Well one route that did vanish, but was replaced in both sections when Black Prince was taken over was the 94 between Cross Gates and Drighlington. Well this wasn't a Black Prince route but changed alot in its last few years of existence:

1) Was every 30 minutes and an hourly evening & Sunday service between Leeds & Drighlington.
2) Dropped to hourly and evening/Sunday journeys withdrawn still same route.
3) It then extended northwards to cover the withdrawn service 24 between Leeds and Beck Hill Estate.
4) The northern section of the route then changed so it then ran through Gipton, Seacroft and Scholes to Cross Gates.
5) Was withdrawn completely in 2005 with the 63 now serving the southern section whilst was replaced to the North by the new 68/68A.

[Craig]

Before it was a stand alone service as the 94, this route was variously joined together with other routes. From memory it has been the 34/35 Drighlington-Alwoodley and the 55 Drighlington-Roundhay, possibly also others I have forgotten.

The evening/Sunday service only used to run as far as Gildersome, and then in later years to the Showcase Cinema. This was only withdrawn because Arriva diverted one of their buses each hour as the 209, although the 63 today (as the 94 is now known) still has one evening round trip to/from Drighlington via Showcase Cinema.

[pub146g]

The memories will be visible on the streets for a bit longer as ex BP Scania 'decker G379 NRC, now First 36930 is currently undergoing MOT and a new ticket for another 12 months. It's also had a partial repaint.