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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 22, 2024 18:30:42 GMT 1
Doubt they will increase anything as they haven't got the drivers as theres always missing 110 regular cancellations still and half hour gaps The evening services got increased back in February with a driver shortage.
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Post by shelf81 on Apr 22, 2024 18:34:26 GMT 1
Did you read my reply correctly ? I did not imply there would be any further cuts. Penfold Then what do you mean by reductions? He's meaning the extra evening trips that got introduced in February are to be rumoured to be removed, most likely down to driver shortages.
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Post by Penfold on Apr 22, 2024 18:57:43 GMT 1
Did you read my reply correctly ? I did not imply there would be any further cuts. Penfold Then what do you mean by reductions? Reducing the ones that were increased last time (ie doubling the frequency on an evening) Penfold
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Post by Penfold on Apr 22, 2024 18:58:50 GMT 1
Then what do you mean by reductions? He's meaning the extra evening trips that got introduced in February are to be rumoured to be removed, most likely down to driver shortages. Correct Penfold
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 22, 2024 21:12:54 GMT 1
Then what do you mean by reductions? Reducing the ones that were increased last time (ie doubling the frequency on an evening) Penfold Exact example of partnership failure, considering how those were funded by WYCA.
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 22, 2024 21:15:44 GMT 1
What do you expect the bus companies to do when there is a driver shortage? I don't see anything wrong with them cutting night services, in order for the day ones to run. Surely WYCA knew, bus companies don't have the staff to deal with service increases. Wonder when Brabin and co at the WYCA, are going to become bus drivers
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Apr 22, 2024 21:21:21 GMT 1
What do you expect the bus companies to do when there is a driver shortage? I don't see anything wrong with them cutting night services, in order for the day ones to run. Surely WYCA knew, bus companies don't have the staff to deal with service increases. They quite literally received two million in taxpayer money to improve night services for a mountain of other bus routes and now they are going ahead to cut other night services which didn't receive the funding. It is a very good example of partnership not working. A whole two million to reallocate resources and be no better off...
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 22, 2024 21:24:28 GMT 1
If there isn't enough drivers, I don't see what else they could do?
Perhaps they had enough drivers in Feburary, but now they don't? A lot of things can change in 2 months
If they have received money to run services, of course they will prioritise the services they get guaranteed income for with the limited resources bus companies have at the moment, isn't that what businesses do?
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Apr 22, 2024 21:28:52 GMT 1
If there isn't enough drivers, I don't see what else they could do? Perhaps they had enough drivers in Feburary, but now they don't? A lot of things can change in 2 months Provide better working conditions? Other companies have mostly sorted themselves out. First, for their many flaws, managed to recruit enough drivers to deliver their improvements with little to no cancellations. Arriva can't even get enough drivers during the daytime seeing the amount of boards full of cancellations on the 110 and 229. I don't think we can give leniency to companies for the driver shortage anymore it is no longer a case of everyone being in the same boat when others have recovered and have been relatively stable for months.
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 22, 2024 21:33:16 GMT 1
If there isn't enough drivers, I don't see what else they could do? Perhaps they had enough drivers in Feburary, but now they don't? A lot of things can change in 2 months Provide better working conditions? Other companies have mostly sorted themselves out. First, for their many flaws, managed to recruit enough drivers to deliver their improvements with little to no cancellations. Arriva can't even get enough drivers during the daytime seeing the amount of boards full of cancellations on the 110 and 229. I don't think we can give leniency to companies for the driver shortage anymore it is no longer a case of everyone being in the same boat when others have recovered and have been relatively stable for months. I do agree, they should provide better working conditions. Think the ownership change has caused a lot of disruption as well, with DB not willing to invest in anything for years. I wouldn't do the job even if you paid me £30.00 an hour, I value my health over money!
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Post by shelf81 on Apr 22, 2024 22:48:37 GMT 1
If there isn't enough drivers, I don't see what else they could do? Perhaps they had enough drivers in Feburary, but now they don't? A lot of things can change in 2 months Provide better working conditions? Other companies have mostly sorted themselves out. First, for their many flaws, managed to recruit enough drivers to deliver their improvements with little to no cancellations. Arriva can't even get enough drivers during the daytime seeing the amount of boards full of cancellations on the 110 and 229. I don't think we can give leniency to companies for the driver shortage anymore it is no longer a case of everyone being in the same boat when others have recovered and have been relatively stable for months. Transdev still have issues with driver shortages as well, so it's not just Arriva still being affected. One other thing to add is compared to the areas First operate in, Arriva have more large lorry/logistic companies nearby they will be competing against for drivers. I Don't blame Arriva for this, I don't even blame WYCA but central government are mostly to blame for putting a timer on how fast the BSIP funding needed to be spent, meaning service increases had to happen sooner than driver numbers allowed so operators are having to reduce some routes to improve others.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 23, 2024 20:05:13 GMT 1
What do you expect the bus companies to do when there is a driver shortage? I don't see anything wrong with them cutting night services, in order for the day ones to run. Surely WYCA knew, bus companies don't have the staff to deal with service increases. Wonder when Brabin and co at the WYCA, are going to become bus drivers A driver shortage is mostly their fault, with poor working conditions of course everyone will leave. I've heard plenty of views from people who work for Arriva, with even a TikTok creator known as "Charsbusbanter" even quitting because working for both Arriva Wakefield and Dewsbury were incredibly stressful.
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 23, 2024 20:09:29 GMT 1
What do you expect the bus companies to do when there is a driver shortage? I don't see anything wrong with them cutting night services, in order for the day ones to run. Surely WYCA knew, bus companies don't have the staff to deal with service increases. Wonder when Brabin and co at the WYCA, are going to become bus drivers A driver shortage is mostly their fault, with poor working conditions of course everyone will leave. I've heard plenty of views from people who work for Arriva, with even a TikTok creator known as "Charsbusbanter" even quitting because working for both Arriva Wakefield and Dewsbury were incredibly stressful. I do agree with what you are saying 100 percent, but Giving franchising is on the cards, there is no incentive for bus companies to do anything, as they might not even win the franchises for that area so they're not going to put any effort in at all
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 23, 2024 20:18:11 GMT 1
If there isn't enough drivers, I don't see what else they could do? Perhaps they had enough drivers in Feburary, but now they don't? A lot of things can change in 2 months Provide better working conditions? Other companies have mostly sorted themselves out. First, for their many flaws, managed to recruit enough drivers to deliver their improvements with little to no cancellations. Arriva can't even get enough drivers during the daytime seeing the amount of boards full of cancellations on the 110 and 229. I don't think we can give leniency to companies for the driver shortage anymore it is no longer a case of everyone being in the same boat when others have recovered and have been relatively stable for months. What are the working conditions that are particularly bad at Arriva compared to First?
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 23, 2024 20:24:53 GMT 1
Provide better working conditions? Other companies have mostly sorted themselves out. First, for their many flaws, managed to recruit enough drivers to deliver their improvements with little to no cancellations. Arriva can't even get enough drivers during the daytime seeing the amount of boards full of cancellations on the 110 and 229. I don't think we can give leniency to companies for the driver shortage anymore it is no longer a case of everyone being in the same boat when others have recovered and have been relatively stable for months. What are the working conditions that are particularly bad at Arriva compared to First? Go Ahead are just as bad, look at their strikes, Go Ahead North West and East was particular bad, so I imagine they're on the same level as Arriva and all of the other companies. I still think even if you paid drivers £20 pound an hour a lot of people still won't take the job, due to the hours, the abuse you get, ect
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Apr 24, 2024 9:00:59 GMT 1
What are the working conditions that are particularly bad at Arriva compared to First? Go Ahead are just as bad, look at their strikes, Go Ahead North West and East was particular bad, so I imagine they're on the same level as Arriva and all of the other companies. I still think even if you paid drivers £20 pound an hour a lot of people still won't take the job, due to the hours, the abuse you get, ect The problem is these things are rarely one thing and aren't always obvious to anyone but those who are affected (which may mean even a driver at the same depot won't understand the issue as it isn't something that bothers them or is actually something they like). There are a number of factors that will affect driver recruitment and retention with some acting on different drivers in opposite manners at the same time: 1. Pay - It seems a simple one but it is comparative to what can be got elsewhere rather than intrinsic to their direct job. We have a rural depot near the edge of a major conurbation which has repeatedly been the most difficult to agree pay increases as the drivers demand pay parity with the neighbouring conurbation despite 90% of their work being low frequency rural work on very fine margins where drivers at a depot only a few miles further away from the big city would be more than happy with the rate on offer. 2. Alternative Opportunities - What other job opportunities are there in the area. Are their multiple local operators they can play current employers off against or large numbers of logistics & other lorry driving jobs available (generally where there are big warehouses & Distribution Centres) which means they are always looking elsewhere and the grass is always greener 3. Vehicles - This is often very difficult to quantify as every driver is different, some like new buses whilst others prefer simpler older ones, some like certain types or dislike others and sometimes it is even bus to bus differences but if you are always having drive buses you don't like it will wear down your job satisfaction. 4. Management - This can often be the straw that breaks the camels back if there is friction between a driver & managers and some management styles are simply 'bad' but in many cases it is again a case that something that many drivers like will really upset others so you can't always please everyone but if you are experiencing a high turnover it is something to look at as it is one that can often be improved to satisfy all drivers easier than other factors. This will also relate to how flexible management may be to personalise the other factors listed to the wishes of the drivers with different rotas or special shifts to meet certain desires. 5. Shifts - Some drivers like shorter shifts over more days whilst others prefer longer shifts over less (5 days of 8-hours average vs 4 days of 10-hours average for instance is a common variation). Some drivers are happy with long breaks during their shifts whilst others hate hanging around and want to do as much work in the shortest time & not have to fill long breaks. Some drivers want overtime and other drivers only want to do what they have to (at a home counties depot I worked at we lost a number of drivers to the higher pay of a London depot but within 6 months almost all were back, partly the travel costs were eating up much of the income difference but one of their big gripes was that they couldn't get as much overtime as they could get in the provinces so their total income had fallen even if the hourly rate was much higher). 6. Type of Work - How many very early or very late shifts are there? How many Saturdays & Sundays do they have to work? Does the operator have routes to areas with anti-social behaviour issues? Are routes largely urban or largely rural? Are drivers focussed on a small pool of routes or cover a wide range of routes & work? Every driver will have different preferences and different 'red lines' on what they will or won't do. 7. Terms & Conditions - This is similar to pay but less obvious to those outside the organisation all the little factors that feature here. How much unpaid break is there & is that related to facilities being provided? What are the allowances for travel or sign-on/sign-off? What arrangements are made for professional training (CPC etc)? What other benefits do the employer offer? 8. Facilities - What is the depot like and what facilities are available for breaks if away from depot? 9. Timetable Design - There is an element of how tightly timed routes are scheduled. Some drivers are naturally faster drivers and are happier with tighter running times & are comfortable with making up time when need whilst others are much slower and more methodical drivers and really struggle with faster timings and prefer more slack than having to chase to recover. We used to run a competitive route alongside a big group operator, the round trip took around 2-hours but we did it 20-mins faster than the big group operator but our reliability stats weren't that much different from the big group operator. Naturally faster drivers gravitated and settled with us whilst the naturally slower drivers drifted over to the big group operator where they were more comfortable so there was a natural meeting of needs across the industry but that isn't always possible where there aren't the alternative employers in the area so some staff will give up as they can't deal with how the timetables are constructed. Whilst pay and, to a lesser extent, T&Cs are the things that grab the eye and most obviously affect recruitment and management issues are often the source of vocal complaints of drivers currently working they are not the sole source of issues around staff retention and it can be difficult for companies to find the right balance to please enough staff sufficiently as fixing something for someone who is unhappy may upset someone currently happy with their lot.
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Post by stantheman on Apr 25, 2024 7:44:51 GMT 1
What are the working conditions that are particularly bad at Arriva compared to First? Go Ahead are just as bad, look at their strikes, Go Ahead North West and East was particular bad, so I imagine they're on the same level as Arriva and all of the other companies. I still think even if you paid drivers £20 pound an hour a lot of people still won't take the job, due to the hours, the abuse you get, ect I use the bus nearly everyday I can honestly say I haven’t seen a driver get any abuse from a passenger for many years.
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Post by SCH117X on Apr 25, 2024 21:52:34 GMT 1
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Apr 26, 2024 6:28:10 GMT 1
Is this really a good use of tax payers money? The whole area along Wedderburn Road etc is less than half a mile away from Knaresborough or Wetherby Road and they've managed to do without a bus for 6 years so surely this money would have been better spent elsewhere.
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Post by sharksmith on Apr 26, 2024 7:30:57 GMT 1
Is this really a good use of tax payers money? The whole area along Wedderburn Road etc is less than half a mile away from Knaresborough or Wetherby Road and they've managed to do without a bus for 6 years so surely this money would have been better spent elsewhere. "The service is funded solely by Connexions, the spokesperson said."
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Post by SCH117X on Apr 26, 2024 18:30:26 GMT 1
The X4 seems to be a different route than before - according to North Yorkshire Council as it did not use Wetherby Road before;
New service from Harrogate to Wedderburn Road via Wetherby Road at 10:30am and 1pm returning from Wedderburn Road via Knaresborough Road at 10:42am and 1:15pm.
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Post by thelupineone on May 2, 2024 17:11:30 GMT 1
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Post by rodneytrotter on May 2, 2024 17:20:10 GMT 1
Because there is a shortage in drivers, it does make sense to reduce trips on the 110, to ensure the less frequent routes run. Those changes seem quite logical and straight forward to me.
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Post by rodneytrotter on May 2, 2024 17:35:51 GMT 1
PB2053151/6 Registered (Short notice) YORKSHIRE TRAVEL GROUP LTD Route: Pudsey Bus Station to Town Street, Horsforth via Calverley Service number: 30 Service type: Normal Stopping Effective date: 20 May 2024
Interesting
Also a new registration by TLC PB0004246/126 New (Short notice) T L C TRAVEL LTD Route: Bus Stop Stand S5, Market Place, Shipley to Bus Stop Stand S5, Market Place, Shipley via Five Lane Ends, Holmewood, Lidget Green & Heaton Service number: 601 Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping Effective date: 19 May 2024
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Post by thelupineone on May 2, 2024 18:08:40 GMT 1
PB2053151/6 Registered (Short notice) YORKSHIRE TRAVEL GROUP LTD Route: Pudsey Bus Station to Town Street, Horsforth via Calverley Service number: 30 Service type: Normal Stopping Effective date: 20 May 2024 Interesting Also a new registration by TLC PB0004246/126 New (Short notice) T L C TRAVEL LTD Route: Bus Stop Stand S5, Market Place, Shipley to Bus Stop Stand S5, Market Place, Shipley via Five Lane Ends, Holmewood, Lidget Green & Heaton Service number: 601 Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping Effective date: 19 May 2024 Never would have thought that Yorkshire Buses would pick up another contract after giving up on the 9 and 29!
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