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Post by SCH117X on Sept 25, 2023 20:35:51 GMT 1
There were reports of the nice buses suffering at the hands of some passengers. No doubt there are economies to have them nearly all at one depot; wonders how long 2019 will last at Malton/York.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 25, 2023 21:03:30 GMT 1
Growth is just over a fifth, some way off a quarter.
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Post by Burnside on Sept 25, 2023 22:47:16 GMT 1
Also, some of the growth could maybe be attributed to the X98/X99 simply having changed operators (meaning someone travelling from, say, East Keswick to Harrogate can now get a Transdev day ticket and not have to pay twice in each direction) rather than the bus used on the service.
Could even partly be down to Transdev making better use of social media than first to publicise services.
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Post by delenn on Sept 25, 2023 23:06:22 GMT 1
Seems like a bonkers decision to remove the nice buses from a route with that much growth. Could kill the growth stone dead. I'd love to see the reasoning behind the decision. As First gave up the routes it's easy to guess that they wasn't covering costs but the key thing is we don't know how much they was loosing so whilst passenger numbers growing by almost 1/4 is a positive it might not be enough to make the routes profitable enough to warrant the expensive newer buses & cover the depreciation costs. As I said, I'd love to see the reasoning, but regardless of the reasoning, it is a heck of a risk to take a service with good growth and take away one of your flagship components of the service. As a non-enthusiast, regular punter, I'd notice and be moaning about the downgrade of buses, and it might put me off using it. I assume they've made a calculation that that wouldn't be the case, but it still seems like a risk. |
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Post by pub146g on Sept 26, 2023 0:44:36 GMT 1
From my experience as a user of these services any growth is purely a result of Transdev picking up from Oakwood Clock inbound to Leeds, and these are mostly pass holders who would otherwise have caught a 12/13/13A if any of those had appeared first.
The notion that the good folk of Wetherby/East Keswick/Collingham are suddenly leaving their cars at home and flocking to the bus appears to me to be the usual spin, I haven't noticed any sudden uptake and passenger numbers from my observations for the bulk of the route appear similar to when First ran it with the exception that it's now picking up a few extras from Oakwood to Leeds. So yea, I suppose there has been some growth, just not the right demographic implied by Transdev.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 26, 2023 19:56:09 GMT 1
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Post by dlspotter on Sept 26, 2023 21:30:09 GMT 1
Interesting to see the 864 will be running from Bradford through the winter |
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Post by leedsbusman on Sept 26, 2023 21:31:44 GMT 1
From my experience as a user of these services any growth is purely a result of Transdev picking up from Oakwood Clock inbound to Leeds, and these are mostly pass holders who would otherwise have caught a 12/13/13A if any of those had appeared first. The notion that the good folk of Wetherby/East Keswick/Collingham are suddenly leaving their cars at home and flocking to the bus appears to me to be the usual spin, I haven't noticed any sudden uptake and passenger numbers from my observations for the bulk of the route appear similar to when First ran it with the exception that it's now picking up a few extras from Oakwood to Leeds. So yea, I suppose there has been some growth, just not the right demographic implied by Transdev. The item says 21% since last October when they were already running it and picking up at all stops, rather than v when First ran it. From my experience - admittedly not regular use, the numbers boarding after Oakwood Clock is less than 1/5th of the total. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 21:43:50 GMT 1
The contract for the 113 ends with Arriva on the 7th October tender has gone out but no alternative supplier found as of yet, Arriva just announced on FB page.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 26, 2023 22:15:11 GMT 1
From my experience as a user of these services any growth is purely a result of Transdev picking up from Oakwood Clock inbound to Leeds, and these are mostly pass holders who would otherwise have caught a 12/13/13A if any of those had appeared first. The notion that the good folk of Wetherby/East Keswick/Collingham are suddenly leaving their cars at home and flocking to the bus appears to me to be the usual spin, I haven't noticed any sudden uptake and passenger numbers from my observations for the bulk of the route appear similar to when First ran it with the exception that it's now picking up a few extras from Oakwood to Leeds. So yea, I suppose there has been some growth, just not the right demographic implied by Transdev. The item says 21% since last October when they were already running it and picking up at all stops, rather than v when First ran it. From my experience - admittedly not regular use, the numbers boarding after Oakwood Clock is less than 1/5th of the total. It'd be unlikely for them to have the figures from First. |
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 26, 2023 22:46:54 GMT 1
The contract for the 113 ends with Arriva on the 7th October tender has gone out but no alternative supplier found as of yet, Arriva just announced on FB page. Well Arriva did take it on as an emergency cover. It's supposed to be a 365 days a year service so may be a case it's not viable for Arriva. Can see the mini e200s off to Hecky if 3050-3053 go back to Selby as mentioned. |
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Post by asw22 on Sept 26, 2023 22:57:07 GMT 1
On 1 Sept I rode on 3613 Leeds to wetherby, FJ09KNV to Roundhay and then one of the sky class vehicles back into Leeds.
I like the sky class vehicles, with their tables and sky light windows and attractive livery. However I found the seats a bit difficult to get into with the consoles and the ride quality is influenced by engine vibrations.
The Volvo double decker has a good ride quality even at 10+ years old, and the 09 Volvo single decker has the traditional well maintained Volvo feel about it. So if as planned the remaining sky classes are moved to the witch way and replaced by well maintained Volvos, then I don't think many passengers would notice, as long as punctuality, reliability and capacity can be maintained.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Sept 26, 2023 23:11:35 GMT 1
On 1 Sept I rode on 3613 Leeds to wetherby, FJ09KNV to Roundhay and then one of the sky class vehicles back into Leeds. I like the sky class vehicles, with their tables and sky light windows and attractive livery. However I found the seats a bit difficult to get into with the consoles and the ride quality is influenced by engine vibrations. The Volvo double decker has a good ride quality even at 10+ years old, and the 09 Volvo single decker has the traditional well maintained Volvo feel about it. So if as planned the remaining sky classes are moved to the witch way and replaced by well maintained Volvos, then I don't think many passengers would notice, as long as punctuality, reliability and capacity can be maintained. I don't think the growth would have come from the levels of service. It commonly gets cancelled due to the driver issue, the frequency hasn't changed and no other journeys have really been added. It only has one unique quality and that is the very unusually high spec vehicles. If anything it is probably the new management making more really questionable decisions and not seeing the same vision as the previous manager. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 23:27:57 GMT 1
The contract for the 113 ends with Arriva on the 7th October tender has gone out but no alternative supplier found as of yet, Arriva just announced on FB page. Well Arriva did take it on as an emergency cover. It's supposed to be a 365 days a year service so may be a case it's not viable for Arriva. Can see the mini e200s off to Hecky if 3050-3053 go back to Selby as mentioned. If it ain't viable for Arriva,then probably won't be viable for anyone don't know who's going to cover it, maybe a tinpot cowboy operator. As long as the e200minis stay away from Castleford, couldn't care what happens to them. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 23:28:54 GMT 1
On 1 Sept I rode on 3613 Leeds to wetherby, FJ09KNV to Roundhay and then one of the sky class vehicles back into Leeds. I like the sky class vehicles, with their tables and sky light windows and attractive livery. However I found the seats a bit difficult to get into with the consoles and the ride quality is influenced by engine vibrations. The Volvo double decker has a good ride quality even at 10+ years old, and the 09 Volvo single decker has the traditional well maintained Volvo feel about it. So if as planned the remaining sky classes are moved to the witch way and replaced by well maintained Volvos, then I don't think many passengers would notice, as long as punctuality, reliability and capacity can be maintained. I don't think the growth would have come from the levels of service. It commonly gets cancelled due to the driver issue, the frequency hasn't changed and no other journeys have really been added. It only has one unique quality and that is the very unusually high spec vehicles. If anything it is probably the new management making more really questionable decisions and not seeing the same vision as the previous manager. Maybe, the new management wasn't happy with the previous management's questionable spending, and now want to cut back. |
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 26, 2023 23:40:47 GMT 1
Well Arriva did take it on as an emergency cover. It's supposed to be a 365 days a year service so may be a case it's not viable for Arriva. Can see the mini e200s off to Hecky if 3050-3053 go back to Selby as mentioned. If it ain't viable for Arriva,then probably won't be viable for anyone don't know who's going to cover it, maybe a tinpot cowboy operator. As long as the e200minis stay away from Castleford, couldn't care what happens to them. No need to go on the offensive against other operators; not all operators "tin pot cowboys" as you call them as that's tarring decent respectable operators with the same brush. |
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Post by dlspotter on Sept 26, 2023 23:51:05 GMT 1
No need to go on the offensive against other operators; not all operators "tin pot cowboys" as you call them as that's tarring decent respectable operators with the same brush. I'm only being honest. Lets face, any of the respectable independent operators, won't touch this contract, if Arriva can't make it work, any of the good independents won't make it work either. So the only ones who take it on, are the ones who are desparate of work, which are the tin pot cowboys of which they are plenty of in West Yorkshire. Arriva can't necessarily "not make it work" but rather they provided temporary cover through fulfilling an emergency contract and possibly aren't interested in continuing to serve it. Perhaps they want to free up the drivers/vehicles to retain in their existing network |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 27, 2023 6:09:28 GMT 1
The 113 really shouldn't exist if it's NHS funded, all 3 hospitals have bus services and I really don't see any need for someone to be visiting all 3 sites in one day even if visiting someone in all 3, that's just luxury at the expense of other NHS more important needs. You don't see all Leeds hospitals linked together in one bus service, nor Bradford's for that matter, nor do you see the Calderdale and Kirklees hospitals linked, so why does the Wakefield district enjoy such an expensive all year round benefit?
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Post by deerfold on Sept 27, 2023 7:03:15 GMT 1
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Post by arriva1606 on Sept 27, 2023 7:15:06 GMT 1
There's a regular bus service between Caderdale Royal and Huddersfield Infirmary. Pre-Covid it was available for anyone, now it's st And then there's the 343 |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Sept 27, 2023 8:29:52 GMT 1
The 113 really shouldn't exist if it's NHS funded, all 3 hospitals have bus services and I really don't see any need for someone to be visiting all 3 sites in one day even if visiting someone in all 3, that's just luxury at the expense of other NHS more important needs. You don't see all Leeds hospitals linked together in one bus service, nor Bradford's for that matter, nor do you see the Calderdale and Kirklees hospitals linked, so why does the Wakefield district enjoy such an expensive all year round benefit? I would suspect that the prime driver is staff movement (& a bit of patient) between sites with visitor usage being an incidental benefit. We run one of these type of services in the midlands and the primary reason for it is to get staff between the sites (with the additional benefit of to/from at start/end of shifts) as it is cheaper than paying for taxis and/or car mileage expenses for all the times the staff need to travel between the sites for work (meetings & consultations) & it was also used to transfer files & other items between sites (there is a regular usage by an internal post trolley moving between sites & a safe was fitted for files to be transferred between sites without staff having to travel). Whether a service like this is worth doing will depend on these hidden requirements and the comparative cost of provision of them compared to the running cost of a more regular open service. As for the suggestion by another poster that if Arriva couldn't make it viable then no one else could, that is just being silly. A very large group operator like Arriva will have high standing costs (management, admin & infrastructure costs) than smaller operators so there will be plenty of operators well above any level that could be described as 'tin-pot' who can put in a viable bid at lower cost than Arriva as a basic point - it is only when the tendering authority puts extra quality demands on that this becomes an issue. |
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 27, 2023 8:45:46 GMT 1
The 113 really shouldn't exist if it's NHS funded, all 3 hospitals have bus services and I really don't see any need for someone to be visiting all 3 sites in one day even if visiting someone in all 3, that's just luxury at the expense of other NHS more important needs. You don't see all Leeds hospitals linked together in one bus service, nor Bradford's for that matter, nor do you see the Calderdale and Kirklees hospitals linked, so why does the Wakefield district enjoy such an expensive all year round benefit? the 113 was established to replace the patient & visitor shuttle bus pilot as that did prove successful BUT was also discriminatory against the disabled staff members and members of the public who couldn't manage the side-steps on the minibuses. The usage demand also warranted an increase. As been pointed out numerous times in the past patients/visitors to Huddersfield Royal Infirmary & Calderdale Royal Hospital could use the staff shuttle in a similar way but that stopped with Covid with public expected to use 343 or 501. Leeds teaching have a staff shuttles linking all sites which ironically uses service buses but not open to public. Also the 113 is wholly funded directly by Mid Yorkshire Hospitals only certain early morning trips that was added on after the collapse of Diamond Coaches who previously ran the trips; the 113 is funded by the Mid Yorkshire Hospital Charity, and small amounts Metro, Kirklees & Wakefield Councils. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 27, 2023 8:49:48 GMT 1
So does this mean the long running Harrogate to Knaresborough bus war is now over? |
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Post by deerfold on Sept 27, 2023 9:51:06 GMT 1
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Post by delenn on Sept 27, 2023 12:10:25 GMT 1
So does this mean the long running Harrogate to Knaresborough bus war is now over? Well the 7/X70 is still an issue. |
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