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Post by Burnside on Feb 25, 2023 7:44:37 GMT 1
Following debates and comments on other posts, feel free to use this thread to discuss what seems a bit of a hot topic.
Do Transdev get away with more in the eyes of passengers/enthusiasts because of the image they project or the interesting fleet?
Do Arriva get stick unfairly for cutting or changing routes, their boring livery etc?
Does any of this stuff (or something else) cause you to favour one company over another or be harsher to one company than you would be to another?
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 25, 2023 8:06:14 GMT 1
Thank god for this thread, I was wondering how I would title such a thread so as not to sound like I was targeting Lucy P lol, thought she'd bite on the April service changes regarding all the missed journeys leading to the axing of the 319 but stupidly I never expected her to go proper off on one. Thank god this is the internet, I think I'd need security if I were to have a real conversation with her lol.
The one thing I will say against Transdev under Alex is that it seems to take longer to get anywhere a distance away since he took over, take the 36, it used to quickly get you to Harrogate in just over 45 minutes on average, now the average is nearer an hour with some journeys taking more time in reality to complete the Moortown to Leeds section than the Harrogate to Moortown section. I'm not a fan of it's all stops status as it's making journeys a lot slower than they should be, add in Grammar school traffic ant Leeds to Harrogate during the morning peak can become a chore. The 60 from end to end should be quicker with use of the bypass but in reality it's no quicker than it used to be years ago, in fact slower at times. Coastliner seems to be slower and slower as the years roll by, I personally don't use it between Leeds and York regardless of how cheap it is as I find it a chore.
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Post by pub146g on Feb 25, 2023 11:51:37 GMT 1
Thank god for this thread, I was wondering how I would title such a thread so as not to sound like I was targeting Lucy P lol, thought she'd bite on the April service changes regarding all the missed journeys leading to the axing of the 319 but stupidly I never expected her to go proper off on one. Thank god this is the internet, I think I'd need security if I were to have a real conversation with her lol. The one thing I will say against Transdev under Alex is that it seems to take longer to get anywhere a distance away since he took over, take the 36, it used to quickly get you to Harrogate in just over 45 minutes on average, now the average is nearer an hour with some journeys taking more time in reality to complete the Moortown to Leeds section than the Harrogate to Moortown section. I'm not a fan of it's all stops status as it's making journeys a lot slower than they should be, add in Grammar school traffic ant Leeds to Harrogate during the morning peak can become a chore. The 60 from end to end should be quicker with use of the bypass but in reality it's no quicker than it used to be years ago, in fact slower at times. Coastliner seems to be slower and slower as the years roll by, I personally don't use it between Leeds and York regardless of how cheap it is as I find it a chore. Indeed this is true, regarding the 36 I made the same point in the X98/99 thread when they started picking up inbound at Oakwood Clock : "Finally I would reinstate the limited stop conditions between Oakwood and Leeds although I'm not sure they will, this is one aspect where I think Transdev are contributing to slower inter-urban journeys by wanting to pick up maximum number of (local) passengers. Couple of years or so ago they started picking up at all stops into Leeds on the 36 down Chapeltown Rd, a retrograde step in my view because most regular passengers from that area have some form of First pre paid ticket so the 36 is stopping to pick up (mainly) ENCTS holders to the detriment of those travelling from Ripon/Harrogate who now suffer a slower journey"Whilst some might say it's understandable from a business aspect in wanting to maximize as much revenue per trip as possible, it is in my view sort of putting two fingers up to the commuters from Ripon/Harrogate who now endure a slower journey for the sake of picking up a few ENCTS holders - I've yet to see anybody pay a fare in the Chapel Allerton to Leeds section. |
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Post by deerfold on Feb 25, 2023 14:18:45 GMT 1
For Transdev, I'd say experiences vary depending where you are.
I can't remember the last time one of my routes in Utley missed a trip or was more than 10 minutes late (and that's unusual).
I did mention here several times when a recently introduced trip on the 60 didn't run for at least the first 3 weeks it was supposed to and fairly regularly for a couple of months after that.
My sister in law in Calderdale suffers regularly from buses not running (though no worse than when they were run by Tiger).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2023 16:09:53 GMT 1
For my, I'd say my bias is against Transdev & Arriva (more so Transdev) whilst being more mixed on First
After moving back to West Yorkshire a couple of years ago, where I live I've only got Transdev 7 & the Coastliner routes on my doorstep, with First/Arriva routes being around 10-15 minute walk. Pre-driver shortage both seemed to suffer with late running towards Leeds, no surprise considering the length of the services but Coastliner in particular can be ridiculous during Summer months what is why i thought Pre-withdrawal that journeys to the coast should of replaced CityZap & instead a local Leeds > Tadcaster > York service should of run. Alongside that over the past year or so both have suffered poorly with cancelled journeys either with or without advance notice & now route 7 has been reduced to Hourly. For me when they went through the stage of banging on about 'buses that people want to be seen on' all i could think to myself is I want a service that can be relied on.
Arriva what i also used for my commute (I've ended up driving now) I am a little more laxed as i feel even Arriva don't hold themselves in high regard - Low expectations creates low disappointment I suppose. Whilst the Strikes didn't affect me much (I got away with using the Stourton P&R service) it was easy to see why people got more annoyed with them.
First i feel similar to Arriva but with slightly more expectation, having grown up with them around Huddersfield. It will probably turn up somewhat on time (say maybe within 10min of what it says on the timetable),probably not the smartest bus ever but ok for the fairly short journey on it & whilst not every minor feature on it works, as long as the main parts work on the bus that's all that matters.
I Think in general - Transdevs problem has been they try to make out they are more than just a normal bus service, so as they claim higher standards it makes for a harder fall when reality hits.
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Post by northerner on Feb 25, 2023 23:08:50 GMT 1
For my, I'd say my bias is against Transdev & Arriva (more so Transdev) whilst being more mixed on First After moving back to West Yorkshire a couple of years ago, where I live I've only got Transdev 7 & the Coastliner routes on my doorstep, with First/Arriva routes being around 10-15 minute walk. Pre-driver shortage both seemed to suffer with late running towards Leeds, no surprise considering the length of the services but Coastliner in particular can be ridiculous during Summer months what is why i thought Pre-withdrawal that journeys to the coast should of replaced CityZap & instead a local Leeds > Tadcaster > York service should of run. Alongside that over the past year or so both have suffered poorly with cancelled journeys either with or without advance notice & now route 7 has been reduced to Hourly. For me when they went through the stage of banging on about 'buses that people want to be seen on' all i could think to myself is I want a service that can be relied on. Arriva what i also used for my commute (I've ended up driving now) I am a little more laxed as i feel even Arriva don't hold themselves in high regard - Low expectations creates low disappointment I suppose. Whilst the Strikes didn't affect me much (I got away with using the Stourton P&R service) it was easy to see why people got more annoyed with them. First i feel similar to Arriva but with slightly more expectation, having grown up with them around Huddersfield. It will probably turn up somewhat on time (say maybe within 10min of what it says on the timetable),probably not the smartest bus ever but ok for the fairly short journey on it & whilst not every minor feature on it works, as long as the main parts work on the bus that's all that matters. I Think in general - Transdevs problem has been they try to make out they are more than just a normal bus service, so as they claim higher standards it makes for a harder fall when reality hits. I'd tend to agree with your comments. Transdev over-market themselves, and I find they get too many of the basics wrong. There's no denying their marketing is excellent and this is the only area I find Transdev to be better than other operators at. I really dislike their strictness on branding - I can't understand how anyone would defend delaying or cancelling a journey because the only spare bus is branded for a different route. They also have an issue with drivers not observing timing points, especially at Keighley, and fail to update the service updates page of cancellations. It's common to have no cancellations showing in the afternoon (despite some journeys not running) but still list journeys which didn't run in the morning peak. I find Arriva generally fine, their livery is boring but buses are usually reasonably smart and often turn up within a few minutes of the timetable. I mostly use the 140/141 and think the idea of combining the 189/410 and creating a 15 minute frequency between Leeds and Pontefract was genius. |
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Post by SCH117X on Feb 26, 2023 13:53:24 GMT 1
The strictness on branding certainly does not apply at Harrogate with 1 and 7 branded vehicles not uncommon on the 24 or standing in for an Electric while 36 vehicles are not so limited in use and can even at times be found on school services.Seems to be a local Keighley matter.
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Post by deerfold on Feb 26, 2023 16:28:55 GMT 1
The strictness on branding certainly does not apply at Harrogate with 1 and 7 branded vehicles not uncommon on the 24 or standing in for an Electric while 36 vehicles are not so limited in use and can even at times be found on school services.Seems to be a local Keighley matter. I'm regularly seeing Shuttle-branded buses on school services and K-local routes in Keighley. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 10, 2023 0:18:17 GMT 1
If Transdev do have a tendency to "get away with more" where other operators would get called out for it, that may be because they usually operate a high quality service and so people may be more inclined to cut them some slack. That may also be because they are a more local operation – OK, they are owned by a multinational parent company now, but their UK base started as a Yorkshire company and has now spread to Lancashire but remains a northern operation – whereas big players like First and Arriva come across as faceless corporate monoliths who have no "real" interest in Yorkshire, it's just one of many places where they try to make money. That is probably especially true for Arriva, with their nation-wide branding (not that I'm necessarily against that, although I don't like the latest incarnation).
What grates for me about Transdev is the constant hype, how everything has to be hashtag-amazing even when it demonstrably isn't, and trying to sell every change as an improvement even when it's demonstrably a degradation – but at least they are trying, whereas the social media feeds of other companies are dismal. We also see a lot of cancellations posted by Transdev (although incomplete), far more than for any other operator, but I don't know whether that is because they genuinely have more cancellations or if it's that they are more proactive in trying to tell people about them whereas other operators just leave you wondering if and when your bus will ever turn up. But on the plus side, they do try to be innovative and to make improvements, in contrast to First and Arriva who often appear to be in a permanent state of managed decline with little or no serious attempt at investment to grow their market.
I try to be fair and even-handed, but I'm sure I do have biases and prejudices that I'm not aware of. I have had serious gripes with most operators in the region at some time or another, but as the wheel turns in most cases the particular thing that provoked my ire gets sorted out and is no longer an issue or at least no longer a priority.
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Mar 11, 2023 23:01:20 GMT 1
If Transdev do have a tendency to "get away with more" where other operators would get called out for it, that may be because they usually operate a high quality service and so people may be more inclined to cut them some slack. That may also be because they are a more local operation – OK, they are owned by a multinational parent company now, but their UK base started as a Yorkshire company and has now spread to Lancashire but remains a northern operation – whereas big players like First and Arriva come across as faceless corporate monoliths who have no "real" interest in Yorkshire, it's just one of many places where they try to make money. That is probably especially true for Arriva, with their nation-wide branding (not that I'm necessarily against that, although I don't like the latest incarnation). What grates for me about Transdev is the constant hype, how everything has to be hashtag-amazing even when it demonstrably isn't, and trying to sell every change as an improvement even when it's demonstrably a degradation – but at least they are trying, whereas the social media feeds of other companies are dismal. We also see a lot of cancellations posted by Transdev (although incomplete), far more than for any other operator, but I don't know whether that is because they genuinely have more cancellations or if it's that they are more proactive in trying to tell people about them whereas other operators just leave you wondering if and when your bus will ever turn up. But on the plus side, they do try to be innovative and to make improvements, in contrast to First and Arriva who often appear to be in a permanent state of managed decline with little or no serious attempt at investment to grow their market. I try to be fair and even-handed, but I'm sure I do have biases and prejudices that I'm not aware of. I have had serious gripes with most operators in the region at some time or another, but as the wheel turns in most cases the particular thing that provoked my ire gets sorted out and is no longer an issue or at least no longer a priority. I want to friendly challenge no serious attempt at investment to grow their market Arriva route tried over the last few year that I can remember 1/2/3 new route for selby college 21/22 taken over from square peg 107 attempt to newmillerdam (did not work) 108 attempt to yorkshire sculpture park (did not work) 113 hospital bus taken over 229 double in frequency leeds to heckmondwike in 2019 and heckmondwike to huddersfield in 2022 377/378 taken over from ct plus 496 double in frequency wakefield to south emlsall 571 taken over from first X60 extend to university (did not work) X80 new route (did not work) Cover school service when ct plus went under That is many more than i think Transdev have tried? Team pennine as exmaple has had major shrink under Transdev but at least arriva tried with new route at tiger. All transdev do is refurbishment of bus and change route number to include letter. It is branding which they do good to make everyone think it is better but under this i do not think it is that better. Perhaps I have bias to arriva? I do not know. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 12, 2023 18:57:03 GMT 1
I want to friendly challenge no serious attempt at investment to grow their market Friendly challenge accepted. Based in Selby and looking towards North Yorkshire rather than West Yorkshire, a lot of the changes that you've mentioned were not on my radar so there may have been some genuine improvements there that I wasn't aware of. As a general passenger, I couldn't give two hoots about a college bus. That's all it is, a college bus. Sure, members of the public can use it, but when it only runs during term time it isn't a public transport service. What I see are cuts. The 42 used to run every hour, then it was every 1½ hours, now it's every 2 hours. When the weight limit came in on Cawood Bridge, Arriva were not interested in acquiring any light-weight vehicles to run it and just abandoned their passengers. The Selby to Leeds corridor used to be every half-hour, then it was reduced to every half-hour to Sherburn only and every hour to Leeds, then it was every hour right through to Leeds, now it is every hour to Sherburn only and every 2 hours to Leeds. Doncaster and its northern satellites have lost their direct services to Selby and Pontefract. Local services around Selby to Brayton and Thorpe Willoughby have been reduced with some areas no longer being served at all. The inconsistent branding and a general feeling of a fleet that – while more modern than it has been – is uncared for. Little or no attempt to post current timetables in any kind of proper format at bus stops. A website that has been unfit for purpose since it was unveiled 3 years ago and which they have done nothing to resolve, with timetables that (if you can even find the bloody things) are riddled with inaccuracies and are utter gibberish (which is a much more longstanding problem than the current website but which again they have shown no interest in addressing). Constant fiddling with timetables by a few minutes here, a few minutes there, which makes no difference to overall punctuality or reliability but means passengers have to stay on their toes all the time. Social media feed that often doesn't mention changes to routes and timetables that are coming up or any information about roadworks and planned diversions. Yes, there may have been some new routes or improved frequencies but these are often not given time to bed in before they are abandoned, and there doesn't seem to be much of a marketing drive to encourage people to use them. I'm not saying they are a terrible company, I've seen far worse over the years, but there's nothing there that makes me think that there is any drive to make things better. |
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Mar 12, 2023 20:18:50 GMT 1
I want to friendly challenge no serious attempt at investment to grow their market Friendly challenge accepted. Based in Selby and looking towards North Yorkshire rather than West Yorkshire, a lot of the changes that you've mentioned were not on my radar so there may have been some genuine improvements there that I wasn't aware of. As a general passenger, I couldn't give two hoots about a college bus. That's all it is, a college bus. Sure, members of the public can use it, but when it only runs during term time it isn't a public transport service. What I see are cuts. The 42 used to run every hour, then it was every 1½ hours, now it's every 2 hours. When the weight limit came in on Cawood Bridge, Arriva were not interested in acquiring any light-weight vehicles to run it and just abandoned their passengers. The Selby to Leeds corridor used to be every half-hour, then it was reduced to every half-hour to Sherburn only and every hour to Leeds, then it was every hour right through to Leeds, now it is every hour to Sherburn only and every 2 hours to Leeds. Doncaster and its northern satellites have lost their direct services to Selby and Pontefract. Local services around Selby to Brayton and Thorpe Willoughby have been reduced with some areas no longer being served at all. The inconsistent branding and a general feeling of a fleet that – while more modern than it has been – is uncared for. Little or no attempt to post current timetables in any kind of proper format at bus stops. A website that has been unfit for purpose since it was unveiled 3 years ago and which they have done nothing to resolve, with timetables that (if you can even find the bloody things) are riddled with inaccuracies and are utter gibberish (which is a much more longstanding problem than the current website but which again they have shown no interest in addressing). Constant fiddling with timetables by a few minutes here, a few minutes there, which makes no difference to overall punctuality or reliability but means passengers have to stay on their toes all the time. Social media feed that often doesn't mention changes to routes and timetables that are coming up or any information about roadworks and planned diversions. Yes, there may have been some new routes or improved frequencies but these are often not given time to bed in before they are abandoned, and there doesn't seem to be much of a marketing drive to encourage people to use them. I'm not saying they are a terrible company, I've seen far worse over the years, but there's nothing there that makes me think that there is any drive to make things better. I agree with some of what you write because there have been many cut but there have been many cut at transdev as well. I just mean to point out that arriva do try to grow and it is not all about cut cut cut. Having a new college service is growing even if adult passenger do not use it. I actually think arriva try more new service than any other. They seem to try new thing for a year and then get rid it it does not work out. How much time should they give to bed in? It not fair to blame bridge having new weight limit on arriva, if they having to cancel because they did not buy a new bus. It not their fault if it change because poor maintain of bridge. They run 42 now so that must be long time ago? I do not know. A lot of bus are having refurbishment so they are doing some care. It take time to do it but it is about 6 or 7 bus away at any time right now. I do not know about timetable at bus stop because they are all done where I live but it is metro to do the timetable display here and do not know who that would be in selby. I agree with you about the website which is terrible and the old one was much better. The app is really bad and Twitter has no update apart from selby for some reason I do not understand. Even though I still like them better than any other. They are more comfortable seat, warmer bus and I like how they change thing to be straight there and not any estate because it faster. It also is because I am familiar with them because of them being who I use to travel most of my life and got me interested to this as a hobby. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 19:12:29 GMT 1
I've always thought Transdev should be held more accountable than Arriva and First, as the impression I got from Transdev, they want a high class finish with their own branding, high spec buses, thats certainly the impression I got from Alex Hornby and others at Transdev, that they think they are better than anyone else, I think thats perfectly okay to do so, but when you make a mistake, you should be held more accountable than others if you claim to be the best.
Arriva don't really care, all the branding has failed misreabley, Frequenta didn't last long in Yorkshire, MAX was pointless, the features on Sapphire, really should be available on every new spec bus so nothing special.
I've always got the impression from other enthusiasts, that they think Transdev are god, and they are the saviour of the bus industry, that Transdev and Alex Hornby are the best.
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