joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 22, 2021 14:18:51 GMT 1
I tried to look for a day return fare from Leeds to Harrogate on the Transdev Harrogate page, but this took quite a bit of navigating to find. I initially selected 'buy tickets' but on that page is a HUGE number of multi trip tickets with NO reference that cheaper day returns are available on the bus, except under a side section referring people to if they can't find the ticket they want. I bet many don't see that bit, and end up forking out for a daytripper ticket! I know I almost gave up before discovering that bit. In my view, all fares should be listed, or at least reference made to cheaper day returns being available before everyone scrolls down. I think bus companies need to realise many people only make one or two journeys, i.e. if coming from Leeds, you're not going to need a multi journey ticket if you're only doing a day return. What does everyone else think?
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 22, 2021 18:50:12 GMT 1
None of the Transdev sites have ever listed all fares - might not be wholly clear on any of them but the tickets listed are those they sell for postal customers. There has occasionally been a list of sample fares.
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joseph
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Posts: 1,139
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Post by joseph on Aug 22, 2021 19:02:09 GMT 1
None of the Transdev sites have ever listed all fares - might not be wholly clear on any of them but the tickets listed are those they sell for postal customers. There has occasionally been a list of sample fares. They should make it a lot clearer if it's only postal tickets that are sold on that page, some tickets like the Daytripper look to be mobile based tickets, this only adds to the confusion. I'm not asking them to list all fares, although it would be very helpful, but they should make it clear cheaper day return tickets are available on the bus with a link to some sample fares, it took me quite a while to find the cheap day return from Leeds to Harrogate. I bet many have thought the daytripper ticket was the day return and thought quite rightly sod that lol. |
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Post by leedsbusman on Aug 22, 2021 22:41:50 GMT 1
At the top of the "Buy Tickets" page it says "For more information on tickets that are available for sale, please see our help centre." That link takes you to www.transdevbus.co.uk/harrogate/fares-and-tickets which includes a page about to the single and return fares. Its £8.30 return to Harrogate, with a special offer reducing it to £6.30 currently The Buy Ticket page is for on line sales of period tickets fulfilled through Mobile or Smart. |
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joseph
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Posts: 1,139
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Post by joseph on Aug 23, 2021 6:08:42 GMT 1
At the top of the "Buy Tickets" page it says "For more information on tickets that are available for sale, please see our help centre." That link takes you to www.transdevbus.co.uk/harrogate/fares-and-tickets which includes a page about to the single and return fares. Its £8.30 return to Harrogate, with a special offer reducing it to £6.30 currently The Buy Ticket page is for on line sales of period tickets fulfilled through Mobile or Smart. Oh yes, saw that bit (I called it a side section as I was so annoyed, it's practically like a hidden on the side bit that bus companies don't want you to discover) but the wording makes it out to give more details about the tickets below that are for sale. I knew myself there was a cheaper fare, but for many ordinary folk they wouldn't have known that. I didn't think for one second details on day return fares were available via that link. If it had said 'click here for more ticket types (e.g. day return) not listed below' that would have made a lot more sense. It's only because I thought I'd click there to make a complaint to the help centre when I finally discovered that section was for other fares! There are many people who will make the same mistake because of the wording. To the common man, or woman, Daytripper looks like the day return ticket if no obvious reference is made to return tickets to be found elsewhere. |
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Post by leedsbusman on Aug 23, 2021 10:31:59 GMT 1
You’ve lost me I’m afraid - the very first link directs you to all the information you need. I think people who are unfamiliar are likely to follow that first to find out the range. Those like you how know range will be aware of what to buy.
If the point is the ticket you want isn’t available on- line then that may be more valid.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 23, 2021 17:16:27 GMT 1
I tried to look for a day return fare from Leeds to Harrogate on the Transdev Harrogate page, but this took quite a bit of navigating to find. I initially selected 'buy tickets' but on that page is a HUGE number of multi trip tickets with NO reference that cheaper day returns are available on the bus, except under a side section referring people to if they can't find the ticket they want. I bet many don't see that bit, and end up forking out for a daytripper ticket! I know I almost gave up before discovering that bit. In my view, all fares should be listed, or at least reference made to cheaper day returns being available before everyone scrolls down. I think bus companies need to realise many people only make one or two journeys, i.e. if coming from Leeds, you're not going to need a multi journey ticket if you're only doing a day return. What does everyone else think? Without a link, I'm not sure where you're looking. I googled "Harrogate bus fares" and got this as the first link: www.transdevbus.co.uk/harrogate/fares-and-ticketsThis seemed fine. |
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kenh
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Posts: 95
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Post by kenh on Aug 23, 2021 19:28:38 GMT 1
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 23, 2021 21:08:17 GMT 1
A bit limited showing the fare from Leeds to.. and Ripon to... - how would you know the fare between intermediate points. |
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Post by deerfold on Aug 24, 2021 8:35:23 GMT 1
A bit limited showing the fare from Leeds to.. and Ripon to... - how would you know the fare between intermediate points. You'd have to have got hold of the faretable. They did at least give some indication of the level of fares. |
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Post by gledhill56 on Aug 24, 2021 9:56:42 GMT 1
A bit limited showing the fare from Leeds to.. and Ripon to... - how would you know the fare between intermediate points. You'd have to have got hold of the faretable. They did at least give some indication of the level of fares. Are companies still obliged to provide you with a fare table for a route if you request it? |
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 24, 2021 14:56:35 GMT 1
Fares information is one of those things that so many bus companies get wrong, or rather don't even bother with.
Transdev do have a summary fares table for Coastliner, although it isn't easy to find, and a couple of headline fares for The 36 and Flyer, as well as listing the full and quite extensive range of network tickets. That puts them ahead of big players like First and Arriva, who IMX don't give you anything at all apart from the network tickets (although perhaps that is offset by the majority of return journeys being capped at the all-day ticket), although behind East Yorkshire who do have a moderately comprehensive list of single and return fares.
I don't know why so many operators are so reticent about publishing fares online, when it must surely be easier and less volatile than timetables, and less of an issue if someone sees an out-of-date fare table than an out-of-date timetable.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 24, 2021 15:11:42 GMT 1
Fares information is one of those things that so many bus companies get wrong, or rather don't even bother with. Transdev do have a summary fares table for Coastliner, although it isn't easy to find, and a couple of headline fares for The 36 and Flyer, as well as listing the full and quite extensive range of network tickets. That puts them ahead of big players like First and Arriva, who IMX don't give you anything at all apart from the network tickets (although perhaps that is offset by the majority of return journeys being capped at the all-day ticket), although behind East Yorkshire who do have a moderately comprehensive list of single and return fares. I don't know why so many operators are so reticent about publishing fares online, when it must surely be easier and less volatile than timetables, and less of an issue if someone sees an out-of-date fare table than an out-of-date timetable. Had fun with Arriva last week - had a few days in Leicester. They have a list of areas for tickets, but you have to click on each and then the map. Two of the areas with different prices had exactly the same map with no indication what the difference is. Since I last visited the area they've removed the "Leicester Zones 1 and 2" ticket - it's not obvious that the replacement is the "Leicester and Derby Zone" (especially as I was travelling on the far side of Leicester from Derby). Some areas have tickets for two or for groups, some don't. Family tickets are different prices on different days... I knew the system before 2020, but took quite a while to work out what was going on. |
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Post by sharksmith on Aug 24, 2021 15:35:18 GMT 1
The bus open data regulations should all change all this I would expect.
This is the timetable per Gov.uk
'31 December 2020 Obligation to provide bus timetable data to the Bus Open Data Service.
7 January 2021 Obligation to provide vehicle location and basic fares and tickets data to the Bus Open Data Service.
7 January 2023 Obligation to provide complex fares and ticket data to the Bus Open Data Service.
Basic fares and tickets refers to the most common ticket types, such as single, return, and weekly passes.
Complex fares and tickets refers to more complicated ticket structures such as multi-operator passes.'
I suppose it will depend on whether individual operators decide to publish this information themselves or just make it available to the Bus Open Data Service.
If it's the latter I guess it will fall to journey planners or sites like bustimes to make it more widely available.
Obviously we are past January 2021 so I don't know if this schedule has slipped in the current circumstances. Alternatively maybe the world has decided that the country isn't interested in single and return bus fares.
Having just searched the Gov.uk site the only data I could find for West Yorkshire appears to be a variety of datasets from Stotts, so I have a feeling the deadline may have been relaxed. I'm sure Dwarfer1979 will be able to tell us.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 25, 2021 7:37:59 GMT 1
The bus open data regulations should all change all this I would expect. This is the timetable per Gov.uk '31 December 2020 Obligation to provide bus timetable data to the Bus Open Data Service. 7 January 2021 Obligation to provide vehicle location and basic fares and tickets data to the Bus Open Data Service. 7 January 2023 Obligation to provide complex fares and ticket data to the Bus Open Data Service. Obviously we are past January 2021 so I don't know if this schedule has slipped in the current circumstances. Alternatively maybe the world has decided that the country isn't interested in single and return bus fares. Having just searched the Gov.uk site the only data I could find for West Yorkshire appears to be a variety of datasets from Stotts, so I have a feeling the deadline may have been relaxed. I'm sure Dwarfer1979 will be able to tell us. I'm not aware of any easing of the deadlines, my colleagues are certainly updating our information for BODs - there seemed to be a softer transition than you may have otherwise expected due to the issues of COVID and some lack of clarity on data standards. They have recently tightened up the standards and may not display files that are not supplied correctly set up (and we are talking about whether you have a - or a / in the route identity and the like not whether you are using the correct program). I've not looked at the site myself to know how it displays things but I do know you don't actually have to upload your files onto the BODs system, you can just supply a link to an external site where you host all your own data on a location you control. I suspect all the big groups will do it this way so you may not find the data on the site and many of the smaller operators will use companies to do this for them (many of the ticket machine/tracking system suppliers offer this, such as Ticketer, as they hold most of this data to make their equipment work) so again data won't be on the BODs site itself. The BODs regulations only apply to a requirement to supply information via the Government's BODs system to 3rd Party organisations and as this requirement is based on specialist output forms it has no impact, or makes it any easier, to provide clearer information in their own formats. |
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