joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 4, 2021 20:35:40 GMT 1
The current Midland Main Line early morning and late evening trains from Leeds via Sheffield and the Midlands to London are to be significantly cut back to just one though train from London to Leeds, with a return working back as far as Derby, both on an evening. I believe the HST sets that currently are at Neville Hill are to be withdrawn, hence the changes.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Feb 4, 2021 23:25:41 GMT 1
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 5, 2021 0:29:34 GMT 1
On the one hand, it's a reduction of 50%.
On the other hand, it's a reduction of one train.
I've never seen the point of the EMR service to Leeds 🤷🏻♂️.
LNER run half-hourly trains to London that are an hour quicker than the EMR service, so it doesn't make sense as a route to London.
XCountry run hourly trains to Sheffield and Derby ... and are quicker because they don't meander round Doncaster to get there.
While Leeds and Leicester are close alphabetically, I can't see that there would be enough traffic between them to justify a direct service when passengers could easily change at Sheffield or Derby.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Feb 5, 2021 1:16:40 GMT 1
On the one hand, it's a reduction of 50%. On the other hand, it's a reduction of one train. I've never seen the point of the EMR service to Leeds 🤷🏻♂️. LNER run half-hourly trains to London that are an hour quicker than the EMR service, so it doesn't make sense as a route to London. XCountry run hourly trains to Sheffield and Derby ... and are quicker because they don't meander round Doncaster to get there. While Leeds and Leicester are close alphabetically, I can't see that there would be enough traffic between them to justify a direct service when passengers could easily change at Sheffield or Derby. The services to/from Leeds operate mainly due to them being HSTs, maintained at Neville Hill. Since they are being phased out, the replacement units will be maintained at Nottingham and Derby. The EMR staff at Neville Hill are transferring to Northern I believe, but will still be cleaning/maintaining the LNER, XC & EMR sets as at present. |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 5, 2021 7:33:35 GMT 1
The thing is they provided that direct service to places where you'd need to otherwise change, places such as Bedford, Leicester etc. It also gave two additional trains to and from Derby each way, early morning to Derby and later in the evening from Derby giving more options. Same too with Sheffield, the more trains you have at your service, the better. Not the quickest way of getting to London, however in the past I got some really good fares from them, and when LNER is buggered, you've still got another option at those times of the day.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Feb 5, 2021 10:56:23 GMT 1
Indeed, unless other services are changing you'll now only be able to get to Derby from Leeds an hour later and to Nottingham half an hour later (you can currently get to Nottingham in time to get to a meeting at 0900, now you'll just be pulling into the station then). The first arrival in Sheffield will be 40 minutes later.
The Sunday service to Leeds tended to be quiet - I was the only person in First between Sheffield and Leeds on that once - but did pay under £30 from London to Leeds.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Feb 5, 2021 10:58:22 GMT 1
On the one hand, it's a reduction of 50%. On the other hand, it's a reduction of one train. In the morning it's a reduction of 2 trains to none (though there's a short service in the later evening instead). In the evening it's a reduction of 3 trains to 1. On a Sunday it's a reduction of 1 train to none. I'm not sure how you get 50% from that (or a reduction of "one train"). |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 5, 2021 14:44:17 GMT 1
I’m curious to know why they are keeping one service and introducing a new journey back to Derby. I’m guessing it’s the only trip that has significant passenger numbers north of Sheffield?
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Feb 5, 2021 16:07:13 GMT 1
I’m curious to know why they are keeping one service and introducing a new journey back to Derby. I’m guessing it’s the only trip that has significant passenger numbers north of Sheffield? The journey back to Derby will be to get it back to the depot. I'm guessing there is a busy flow somewhere on one of the trips. Odd that it only seems to be important in one direction. |
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jst
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Post by jst on Feb 5, 2021 17:40:35 GMT 1
None of the trips north of Sheffield carry many passengers but retaining a direct London - Leeds service will allocate them a total of the total London - Leeds fare box even if the majority of passengers use LNER.
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 5, 2021 17:55:23 GMT 1
On the one hand, it's a reduction of 50%. On the other hand, it's a reduction of one train. In the morning it's a reduction of 2 trains to none (though there's a short service in the later evening instead). In the evening it's a reduction of 3 trains to 1. On a Sunday it's a reduction of 1 train to none. I'm not sure how you get 50% from that (or a reduction of "one train"). RTT shows two EMR departures from Leeds (0519 and 0634) and two arrivals (2249 and 2307), ie two trains each way, and the proposed timetable is for one train each way. |
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jst
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Post by jst on Feb 5, 2021 18:00:07 GMT 1
Pre-COVID there were three evening trains, the additional being 1D64 1834 STP-LDS (2214 arr).
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Post by Burnside on Feb 5, 2021 19:46:12 GMT 1
So essentially, it seems that this is what's happening.
EMR's HST's are being phased out and replaced by 222's. The HST's are based and maintained at Neville Hill. The 222's are, i believe, based at Etches Park, Derby.
The result, therefore, is that EMR either cut the number of Leeds trains, introduce additional short workings between Derby and Leeds (which may be seen as a revenue raid on CrossCountry) or run Empty between Derby and Leeds.
The above mentioned short working from Leeds to Derby would, no doubt, be essetially a positioning move to return the unit to it's depot.
Interestingly, RealTimeTrains is currently showing no EMR trains serving Leeds at all by the end of May, which leads me to think that the timetable has either not been finalised yet, or not made available online. This does happen beforer most timetable changes, either nothing shows or what does appear can be amended or removed. With the pandemic and the alteration of services plus lack of certainty going forward (in regards Lockdown's and travel restrictions etc), it may be that a finalised timetable appears later than usual?
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jst
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Post by jst on Feb 5, 2021 20:55:16 GMT 1
Interestingly, RealTimeTrains is currently showing no EMR trains serving Leeds at all by the end of May, which leads me to think that the timetable has either not been finalised yet, or not made available online. This does happen beforer most timetable changes, either nothing shows or what does appear can be amended or removed. With the pandemic and the alteration of services plus lack of certainty going forward (in regards Lockdown's and travel restrictions etc), it may be that a finalised timetable appears later than usual? RTT isn't showing anything for May presently. The timetable has yet to be finalised. |
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Post by squeaky on Feb 5, 2021 22:33:50 GMT 1
None of the trips north of Sheffield carry many passengers but retaining a direct London - Leeds service will allocate them a total of the total London - Leeds fare box even if the majority of passengers use LNER. nah, ORCATS won't value that (and most of the fares are route Peterborough now). It will be helpful for some misc flows though. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 6, 2021 0:42:03 GMT 1
Indeed, unless other services are changing you'll now only be able to get to Derby from Leeds an hour later and to Nottingham half an hour later (you can currently get to Nottingham in time to get to a meeting at 0900, now you'll just be pulling into the station then). The first arrival in Sheffield will be 40 minutes later. The Sunday service to Leeds tended to be quiet - I was the only person in First between Sheffield and Leeds on that once - but did pay under £30 from London to Leeds. Based on the current timetables but ignoring EMR trains from Leeds (and noting that there may be some trains that are not running at the moment because of reduced Covid timetables) First journey from Leeds to Sheffield Leeds 0530 - Doncaster 0600 (LNER) Doncaster 0612 - Sheffield 0644 (NT) Which takes 10 minutes longer than the direct EM train and arrives 20 minutes later. First journey from Leeds to Nottingham Leeds 0611 - Sheffield 0651 (XC) Sheffield 0702 - Nottingham 0753 (NT) Which is actually 10 minutes quicker than the direct EM train at 0634 and arrives 30 minutes earlier. First journey from Leeds to Derby Leeds 0611 - Derby 0724 (XC) Which is 30 minutes quicker than the direct EMR train and arrives 20 minutes later. I am sure that there are a handful of people from Leeds who want to get to Sheffield before 0645, to Derby before 0730 and to Nottingham before 0800, but I would imagine they are few and far between, and not enough to justify running a train for. Although this does highlight how badly served Nottingham is by intercity trains. Looking at the proposed EMR timetable, it will have a half-hourly service to London ... and that's it. It's got regional XCountry services to Birmingham/Cardiff every half-hour, regional East Midlands services to Liverpool in one direction and Norwich in the other every hour, regional Northern services to Leeds every hour, and then local trains. For an urban area of nearly three-quarters of a million people, that is really poor connectivity. |
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Post by Bradford Traveller on May 7, 2021 0:00:14 GMT 1
Confirmed as one train serving Leeds, Monday to Friday, running in service back to Derby.
No train at the weekend.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on May 7, 2021 18:45:04 GMT 1
Confirmed as one train serving Leeds, Monday to Friday, running in service back to Derby. No train at the weekend. Was that in doubt? |
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Jan 26, 2022 2:07:30 GMT 1
From the May 2022 timetable, 1F56 will terminate at Sheffield.
This means that after 13 May.there won't be any EMR services on the line north of Sheffield.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Jan 26, 2022 12:17:09 GMT 1
From the May 2022 timetable, 1F56 will terminate at Sheffield. This means that there won't be any EMR services north of Sheffield after 13 May. It did seem odd just to have one each way, both in the evening. Technically there won't be any services North *from* Sheffield. There are EMR services to several places North *of* Sheffield. |
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