joseph
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Post by joseph on Jan 27, 2021 20:53:57 GMT 1
I wonder why Welglade haven't got to grips with TM Travel? It's always been seen as the poor relation, the one which get's the cast offs etc. Apart from a few routes that have seen some investment, such as the 30, it's not really seen the level of investment it needs. Now, many of the cast offs have been quite good I'll admit, such as those seen on the 218, but such a route does warrant something more as it can be a right gold mine during the Summer, and even during the winter it's had it's fair share of passengers. Boarding a vandalised decker clearly used on school work doesn't create a good impression on the way to Chatsworth or Bakewell lol. Over the past couple of years, the whole TM network has consisted of anything goes, such as the large Nordic decker used on routes normally operated by a Solo, to a worn looking Solo on the 218 in the height of Summer. I've often seen transferred buses still in the colors of Trent routes many months after transfer. Considering First have at times been ropey in Sheffield over the past few years, you'd have thought Welglade would have put in the effort to capitalise. I wonder if Welglade see TM as a bargain basement company it hopes to make a bit of profit from without much investment?
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Post by guyarab on Jan 28, 2021 16:47:41 GMT 1
I don’t think Notts & Derby Traction is any better and isn’t that a Wellglade company too? It’s probably similar with Arriva’s Yorkshire Tiger offshoot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 17:10:21 GMT 1
I don’t think Notts & Derby Traction is any better and isn’t that a Wellglade company too? It’s probably similar with Arriva’s Yorkshire Tiger offshoot. it is & TM had a couple of Notts & Derby cast offs |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Jan 28, 2021 19:12:59 GMT 1
It's a shame really as TM had potential to grow into something good, instead it's been allowed to get into a bit of a state. At one point, TM had the Sheffield to Peak District market almost all to themselves, bar the 272. If Welglade put in the effort to fully support TM, then with a lot of work from TM, all the contracted journeys could have become used enough to be classed as commercial to fully compliment those well used money spinning journeys. Instead, Hulleys got contracts for the Ladybower services, and have worked on them to make them what they are today. Stagecoach got the 65 which TM could easily have made fully commercial if they put the effort in, I've been on many a 65 journey operated by TM from Sheffield with full loads of tourists, pensioners and students, all getting off at different points.
The 218 is another big money spinner, now, yes TM have worked hard on this route doubling it's frequency and putting on refurbished buses, but it's not a great advert to see an old double decker, clearly only fit for school work, running on a premium route with it's premium fares. Imagine having to go to Chatsworth in a decker looking like tat when you could be turning up in a nice clean car, you'd be tempted to taxi it next time! Going forward, it wouldn't surprise me to see Hulleys take on TM on this route, supposing they struck a deal with Chatsworth House for exclusive access to Chatsworth, that'll be a big blow to TMs chances as they'll only have the Bakewell market to try and hang on to.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Jan 29, 2021 10:15:25 GMT 1
I don’t think Notts & Derby Traction is any better and isn’t that a Wellglade company too? It’s probably similar with Arriva’s Yorkshire Tiger offshoot. it is & TM had a couple of Notts & Derby cast offs I think there is a misconception that Wellglade = Trent Barton, which isn't the case, and that if Wellglade is involved you will automatically get TB style operation. Trent Barton barely acknowledge they are part of a wider group, literally in some cases (during the competition with Premiere Wellglade responded with some low cost competition and TB's response to a press enquiry about this new service was "that is a different company and nothing to do with us, please contact them for details"), and there is no obvious relationship between the group companies. There is no ticket inter-availability between Trent and sister companies Notts & Derby, TM Travel or High Peak even where they overlap (I'm not even sure there is staff pass inter-availability with TB, there definitely isn't between High Peak & TB) and that doesn't require anyone to admit they are part of the same group. There was a shaky period at TB a few years ago where few new buses were bought for a while and it isn't a big group so if they invest in TM they can't do so at TB where the strong market sits, you need to remember that until last year TB were still running 03-plate Scanias on front line routes (a similar age profile to TM, though will have had a more recent interior refurb) so there is some catch up to do more generally. Notts & Derby is the low-cost contract specialist company, there is little commercial work there, so will always be a more average quality op. N&D is covering work TB aren't interested in and can't cover as their business model is high cost to cover all the marketing and other investment that they require to deliver what they do. TM is a little less clear as to where it sits in the market but effectively the business model hasn't changed since it was independent as a lowish-cost business specialising in contracts & marginally commercial work so, again, generally won't offer a great quality offering. Much of how TM operate will depend on the manager in place at the time, the 218 rebranding was done under a previous manager (as was I think the 30) who favoured strong branding on 'core' routes whereas it is clear that the current manager has a different view on branding and the like and is looking for more efficient usage of resource which branding can undermine. It could be argued that there are a couple of routes that could benefit from being treated a bit more individually but that may not fit with the Operational model in place. What I am surprised about is the slow repaint of cascaded vehicles so buses run in 'acquired' liveries from sister companies for a long time which present a much bigger image problem than multi-purpose use of buses on schools and service work. In terms of the performance of routes, such as the 65, it is difficult to judge the actual performance of a route from the loadings alone - especially with heavy concessions that a route like the 65 does have as the income per journey isn't always as closely related to number of passengers as you would like. I do know that the 65 was very reliant on an associated college/Uni contract into Buxton and when that was lost the rest of the route became unviable as a commercial proposition. Given the replacement operator also couldn't make a commercial proposition out of it, it clearly isn't as simple as suggested for the route to be a prospect though I would agree the potential is there if you can spend the money to find it but few operators have the time and/or money to do that - hopefully Stagecoach can. |
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Post by irhardy on Jan 29, 2021 22:18:48 GMT 1
Don't forget that Wellglade also owns KinchBus of Loughborough (which has a similar sort of quality as TrentBarton).
Also Wellglade has a 6% shareholding in Leicester Citybus Ltd (which trades as First Leicester).
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Jan 30, 2021 11:06:47 GMT 1
Don't forget that Wellglade also owns KinchBus of Loughborough (which has a similar sort of quality as TrentBarton). Also Wellglade has a 6% shareholding in Leicester Citybus Ltd (which trades as First Leicester). Kinchbus appears to effectively operate as a sub-brand of Trent Barton, Kinch is the only one that has ticket inter-availability with TB and some of whose routes TB show on their website, which is why I left that out. It was a gradual process that seems to have started after the extension of the Skylink brand used by Kinch to TB but it was only relatively recently that the inter-availability extended to the Loughborough local services as well. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 30, 2021 17:47:31 GMT 1
Wellglade also have a 50% stake in High Peak Buses. However their legal address in Leicester and livery indicates it is largely treated merely as a CentreBus operation.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Jan 31, 2021 12:00:59 GMT 1
Wellglade also have a 50% stake in High Peak Buses. However their legal address in Leicester and livery indicates it is largely treated merely as a CentreBus operation. It is completely, there is no difference in how High Peak is managed to any other Centrebus depot and involvement from Wellglade appears to pretty much be restricted to senior director level. The one caveat is fleet, High Peak were receiving Solo SRs at a time when Wellglade were receiving buses from Optare but Centrebus were favouring E200s (the TP E200s were more typical for Centrebus) and less obviously there are slightly less permanent transfers between High Peak & the rest of Centrebus due to the need for actual money to change hands. |
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