|
Post by stevieinselby on Oct 19, 2020 12:31:55 GMT 1
I see Wharfedale packhorse have given up till 2021. So no weekday buses in upper wharefedale. Not quite. Wharfedale Packhorse run the one-Saturday-a-month evening services – those are suspended. Upper Wharfedale Venturer run the Monday to Saturday daytime services between Grassington and Buckden, and those are still running as normal.
|
|
kenh
Forum Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by kenh on Oct 19, 2020 18:53:43 GMT 1
I see Wharfedale packhorse have given up till 2021. So no weekday buses in upper wharefedale. Not quite. Wharfedale Packhorse run the one-Saturday-a-month evening services – those are suspended. Upper Wharfedale Venturer run the Monday to Saturday daytime services between Grassington and Buckden, and those are still running as normal. Bustimes has it wrong. says 72B is run by Wharfedale Packhorse. bustimes.org/services/72b-buckden-grassington-2
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Oct 19, 2020 19:23:23 GMT 1
Not quite. Wharfedale Packhorse run the one-Saturday-a-month evening services – those are suspended. Upper Wharfedale Venturer run the Monday to Saturday daytime services between Grassington and Buckden, and those are still running as normal. Bustimes has it wrong. says 72B is run by Wharfedale Packhorse. bustimes.org/services/72b-buckden-grassington-2Ah, I think they are both brands of the Upper Wharfedale CIC, so they may be registered as a single entity with VOSA and that's why Bustimes is showing as it does ... in the same way that they list Coastliner, Flyer and York local services all under one operator. But don't worry, it is just the Saturday evening services that are on hold.
|
|
kenh
Forum Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by kenh on Oct 26, 2020 15:53:54 GMT 1
Just a heads up. The following are running in the dales still 24 Harrogate - Pateley Bridge. 7 days/week NYCC running MWF 74A Ilkley - Grassington Transdev running 873 and 884 Ilkley Skipton on Sundays and 784 M-S. note last bus each way does not run Saturdays Transdev running 72 Skipton - Grassington Upper Wharfedale venturer is running 72B Graddington-Buckden M-S 875 operates Wetherby - Leeds - Ilkley - Grassington - Buckden on Sundays. It does not run via Bolton Abbey or Burnsall. York Pullman. double decker (which is why no Bolton Abbey) 580-581-582 Skipton Lancaster Mon - Sat. NYCC 210-211 Skipton Malham M-F NYCC 11 Settle - Horton in Ribblesdale M-Sat Dales and District running Ripon - Leyburn - Richmond and Bedale - Leyburn. Little White Bus running leyburn - Hawes - Gayle. Mon - Sat Dales and District run 856 Northallerton - Gayle on Sundays Little White Bus run 30 Hawes - Reeth - Keld. Does not seem to be on Bustimes.org. Little white Bus run Garsdale station - Hawes - Gayle 7 days/week Western Dales Community bus and Woofs of sedbergh run some buses in the Dent-Sedbergh area Cumbria Classic Coaches operate buses from Kirkby Stephen. All are out from Kirkby Stephen and back.
|
|
|
Post by dlspotter on Oct 26, 2020 17:19:58 GMT 1
Just a heads up. The following are running in the dales still 24 Harrogate - Pateley Bridge. 7 days/week NYCC running MWF 74A Ilkley - Grassington Transdev running 873 and 884 Ilkley Skipton on Sundays and 784 M-S. note last bus each way does not run Saturdays Transdev running 72 Skipton - Grassington Upper Wharfedale venturer is running 72B Graddington-Buckden M-S 875 operates Wetherby - Leeds - Ilkley - Grassington - Buckden on Sundays. It does not run via Bolton Abbey or Burnsall. York Pullman. double decker (which is why no Bolton Abbey) 580-581-582 Skipton Lancaster Mon - Sat. NYCC 210-211 Skipton Malham M-F NYCC 11 Settle - Horton in Ribblesdale M-Sat Dales and District running Ripon - Leyburn - Richmond and Bedale - Leyburn. Little White Bus running leyburn - Hawes - Gayle. Mon - Sat Dales and District run 856 Northallerton - Gayle on Sundays Little White Bus run 30 Hawes - Reeth - Keld. Does not seem to be on Bustimes.org. Little white Bus run Garsdale station - Hawes - Gayle 7 days/week Western Dales Community bus and Woofs of sedbergh run some buses in the Dent-Sedbergh area Cumbria Classic Coaches operate buses from Kirkby Stephen. All are out from Kirkby Stephen and back. 24 no longer runs Sundays, hasn't done since March. It's a shame as the 24 was always quite busy on a Sunday
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Oct 26, 2020 17:48:53 GMT 1
Transdev running 873 and 884 Ilkley Skipton on Sundays and 784 M-S. note last bus each way does not run Saturdays Also the first bus.
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Oct 26, 2020 18:32:07 GMT 1
Dales and District running Ripon - Leyburn - Richmond and Bedale - Leyburn. Slight correction there: Yes, Ripon—Leyburn—Richmond is run by Dales & District, but Bedale—Leyburn is run by NYCC, and runs Monday to Friday off-peak only. Dales & District run the service Bedale—Northallerton. The whole Wensleydale network is a complete mess and looks to have been put together for operational convenience and minimisation of costs rather than for the benefit of passengers 😣
|
|
kenh
Forum Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by kenh on Oct 27, 2020 17:46:50 GMT 1
Dales and District running Ripon - Leyburn - Richmond and Bedale - Leyburn. Slight correction there: Yes, Ripon—Leyburn—Richmond is run by Dales & District, but Bedale—Leyburn is run by NYCC, and runs Monday to Friday off-peak only. Dales & District run the service Bedale—Northallerton. The whole Wensleydale network is a complete mess and looks to have been put together for operational convenience and minimisation of costs rather than for the benefit of passengers 😣 cheapskate NYCC
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,144
|
Post by joseph on Oct 31, 2020 11:40:21 GMT 1
Breaking news, the 875 Dalesbus will be suspended after operation tomorrow, can see the 883/4 going the same way too.
|
|
kenh
Forum Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by kenh on Oct 31, 2020 20:53:30 GMT 1
Breaking news, the 875 Dalesbus will be suspended after operation tomorrow, can see the 883/4 going the same way too. so no Sunday service for locals then.
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Nov 1, 2020 0:10:22 GMT 1
Breaking news, the 875 Dalesbus will be suspended after operation tomorrow, can see the 883/4 going the same way too. so no Sunday service for locals then. TBH, it isn't a Sunday service for locals anyway. The first bus into Ilkley only gives you 40 minutes before the last bus back from Ilkley, and I can't imagine there will be much going on in Grassington on a Sunday during lockdown. During the last lockdown the Upper Wharfedale Venturer stopped running as well, leaving Kettlewell and Buckden with no buses at all, so demand for travel clearly wasn't high.
|
|
jc
Forum Member
Posts: 431
|
Dalesbus
Nov 1, 2020 4:15:35 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by jc on Nov 1, 2020 4:15:35 GMT 1
Dales and District running Ripon - Leyburn - Richmond and Bedale - Leyburn. Slight correction there: Yes, Ripon—Leyburn—Richmond is run by Dales & District, but Bedale—Leyburn is run by NYCC, and runs Monday to Friday off-peak only. Dales & District run the service Bedale—Northallerton. The whole Wensleydale network is a complete mess and looks to have been put together for operational convenience and minimisation of costs rather than for the benefit of passengers 😣 I never grasped the 73 to 156/7 split at Bedale when Dales & District ran both, though seem to recall around 2006 they ran a regular through connection to Masham on the 144. With an additional bus they could extend to 73 to Leyburn once an hour, though to keep the round trip within 120 minutes would probably mean only the short Northallerton to Bedale trips would serve Excelby Road. Either that or extend eastwards to give a direct service between Northallerton station, District Council offices and Brompton every 30 minutes. JMHO.
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Nov 1, 2020 22:19:31 GMT 1
Slight correction there: Yes, Ripon—Leyburn—Richmond is run by Dales & District, but Bedale—Leyburn is run by NYCC, and runs Monday to Friday off-peak only. Dales & District run the service Bedale—Northallerton. The whole Wensleydale network is a complete mess and looks to have been put together for operational convenience and minimisation of costs rather than for the benefit of passengers 😣 I never grasped the 73 to 156/7 split at Bedale when Dales & District ran both, though seem to recall around 2006 they ran a regular through connection to Masham on the 144. With an additional bus they could extend to 73 to Leyburn once an hour, though to keep the round trip within 120 minutes would probably mean only the short Northallerton to Bedale trips would serve Excelby Road. Either that or extend eastwards to give a direct service between Northallerton station, District Council offices and Brompton every 30 minutes. JMHO. The 73 to 156/157 split was because the route between Bedale and Northallerton is reasonably busy and so merits a full-size saloon (until recently they had a Volvo B7RLE and a VDL SB200 on that route, although I think one or both of those buses has now gone and they have a newly acquired full-size Enviro 200MMC running it at the moment), but the route beyond Bedale goes onto narrow lanes where full-size buses would struggle – not to mention be grossly overprovisioned for the much smaller number of passengers – so they used Optare Solos for the buses running beyond Bedale. Even right back in the day when Arriva ran the 73 hourly, and Dales & District ran the 156/157 from Northallerton to Bedale hourly and from Bedale to Hawes most hours, passengers generally had to change at Bedale because they had the big/small bus split.
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Nov 1, 2020 22:58:31 GMT 1
Crikey I had not realised how services through Leyburn had been chopped up; some years back had a pleasant day on a D&D Rover; 159 Ripon to Leyburn, then to Castle Bolton, back trough Leyburn to Bedale and a 144 back to Ripon, albeit that was a private taxi just me and the driver all the way.
|
|
jc
Forum Member
Posts: 431
|
Dalesbus
Nov 2, 2020 2:08:25 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by jc on Nov 2, 2020 2:08:25 GMT 1
I never grasped the 73 to 156/7 split at Bedale when Dales & District ran both, though seem to recall around 2006 they ran a regular through connection to Masham on the 144. With an additional bus they could extend to 73 to Leyburn once an hour, though to keep the round trip within 120 minutes would probably mean only the short Northallerton to Bedale trips would serve Excelby Road. Either that or extend eastwards to give a direct service between Northallerton station, District Council offices and Brompton every 30 minutes. JMHO. The 73 to 156/157 split was because the route between Bedale and Northallerton is reasonably busy and so merits a full-size saloon (until recently they had a Volvo B7RLE and a VDL SB200 on that route, although I think one or both of those buses has now gone and they have a newly acquired full-size Enviro 200MMC running it at the moment), but the route beyond Bedale goes onto narrow lanes where full-size buses would struggle – not to mention be grossly overprovisioned for the much smaller number of passengers – so they used Optare Solos for the buses running beyond Bedale. Even right back in the day when Arriva ran the 73 hourly, and Dales & District ran the 156/157 from Northallerton to Bedale hourly and from Bedale to Hawes most hours, passengers generally had to change at Bedale because they had the big/small bus split. The elephant in the room is how many potential passengers are you losing by having them transfer at Bedale - imagine Reliance splitting the 30 at Easingwold. I find it amazing even with a 1:2 split in frequency west/east from Bedale they can't justify running the same vehicle through to Leyburn even if it means omitting Newton-le-Willows. A difficult question on capacity though. If running the 53 and 54 frequently from RAF Leeming and Kirkby Fleetham results in overcapacity into Northallerton, what is the solution - cutting those routes to 2 or 3 trips per day as present, or 5 or 6 trips with the 73 reduced to hourly off peak?
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Nov 2, 2020 18:55:01 GMT 1
The 73 to 156/157 split was because the route between Bedale and Northallerton is reasonably busy and so merits a full-size saloon (until recently they had a Volvo B7RLE and a VDL SB200 on that route, although I think one or both of those buses has now gone and they have a newly acquired full-size Enviro 200MMC running it at the moment), but the route beyond Bedale goes onto narrow lanes where full-size buses would struggle – not to mention be grossly overprovisioned for the much smaller number of passengers – so they used Optare Solos for the buses running beyond Bedale. Even right back in the day when Arriva ran the 73 hourly, and Dales & District ran the 156/157 from Northallerton to Bedale hourly and from Bedale to Hawes most hours, passengers generally had to change at Bedale because they had the big/small bus split. The elephant in the room is how many potential passengers are you losing by having them transfer at Bedale - imagine Reliance splitting the 30 at Easingwold. I find it amazing even with a 1:2 split in frequency west/east from Bedale they can't justify running the same vehicle through to Leyburn even if it means omitting Newton-le-Willows. A difficult question on capacity though. If running the 53 and 54 frequently from RAF Leeming and Kirkby Fleetham results in overcapacity into Northallerton, what is the solution - cutting those routes to 2 or 3 trips per day as present, or 5 or 6 trips with the 73 reduced to hourly off peak? I don't think the problem is overprovision from the 53 and 54, it is only a fairly short overlap. Given that the 73 is one of only a very small number of routes across North Yorkshire that has run a reduced service since March (not counting Sunday leisure routes), I wonder if demand is still as strong as it was. As an interesting exercise, I mapped out a possible improved Wensleydale network, requiring 8 buses (the same routes now require 6/7 buses): 156/157: Northallerton - Bedale - Leyburn - Hawes, every hour alternating between the two braids (4 buses) 159: Richmond - Leyburn every hour, continuing to Masham and Ripon every 2 hours (2 buses) 73: Northallerton - Bedale every hour, continuing to Masham and Ripon every 2 hours replacing 144 and 138 (2 buses) That would give you a 30-minute frequency between Northallerton and Bedale, an hourly frequency between Ripon and Masham, and 4-way connections at Leyburn between 156/157 and 159 in all directions every hour. I would also be tempted to change the 159 to run via Catterick Garrison Tesco rather than Downholme - that is something that I would suggest should be done regardless. The extension of 73 beyond Bedale could be reduced to 3 days a week as the 144 and 138 are now, reducing the demand to 7 buses on the other days, and meaning that the total network would only require one extra bus compared to current provision, although there would be a considerable increase in mileage. It would be great to see consistent and regular routes running through Wensleydale again, and it's a pretty safe bet that more frequent services through to Northallerton would spur a lot of growth compared to the current skeleton service with poor connections, but whether it would be enough growth to justify the investment I really don't know.
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,144
|
Post by joseph on Nov 2, 2020 20:54:44 GMT 1
Oh dear, a bit out of the proper Dales area but it's not looking reet good up in't dales, Western Dales bus are suspending every one of their existing services (the Hawes one never came back on from suspension first time round) and these services are essential shopper connections, i.e. providing links from various Dales villages into Kendal, Sedbergh, Kirkby Stephen etc. Nothing else confirmed from other companies, but I can see Little White Bus reducing their services as well as Dales and District.
|
|
jc
Forum Member
Posts: 431
|
Dalesbus
Nov 3, 2020 1:37:13 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by jc on Nov 3, 2020 1:37:13 GMT 1
Given that the 73 is one of only a very small number of routes across North Yorkshire that has run a reduced service since March (not counting Sunday leisure routes), I wonder if demand is still as strong as it was. As an interesting exercise, I mapped out a possible improved Wensleydale network, requiring 8 buses (the same routes now require 6/7 buses): 156/157: Northallerton - Bedale - Leyburn - Hawes, every hour alternating between the two braids (4 buses) 159: Richmond - Leyburn every hour, continuing to Masham and Ripon every 2 hours (2 buses) 73: Northallerton - Bedale every hour, continuing to Masham and Ripon every 2 hours replacing 144 and 138 (2 buses) That would give you a 30-minute frequency between Northallerton and Bedale, an hourly frequency between Ripon and Masham, and 4-way connections at Leyburn between 156/157 and 159 in all directions every hour. I would also be tempted to change the 159 to run via Catterick Garrison Tesco rather than Downholme - that is something that I would suggest should be done regardless. The extension of 73 beyond Bedale could be reduced to 3 days a week as the 144 and 138 are now, reducing the demand to 7 buses on the other days, and meaning that the total network would only require one extra bus compared to current provision, although there would be a considerable increase in mileage. It would be great to see consistent and regular routes running through Wensleydale again, and it's a pretty safe bet that more frequent services through to Northallerton would spur a lot of growth compared to the current skeleton service with poor connections, but whether it would be enough growth to justify the investment I really don't know. Has Range Road across Barden Moor opened in the last few years? I had it in mind that the most direct route from Leyburn to Catterick Garrison was via Scotton for some reason. Either way I think the 159 on a 3 hour round trip would need to interwork with something unless the current timings are very lax. Heck we could play around with diagrams all day, Bedale > Northallerton > Bedale > Masham > Ripon > Thirsk > Northallerton on a 6 hour round trip anyone? Other dimension to tight scheduling is you would need to do away with one driver per bus and instead adopt a shift pattern with drivers swapped at probably Northallerton or Ripon. Now if a group of services were timed to connect in all directions (as you have at Leyburn), you could run a minibus of afternoon shift drivers from the depot around midday, swap them at the bus station and run the morning shift back... Oh and the buses aren't permitted to break down by the way.
|
|
|
Post by Burnside on Nov 3, 2020 17:33:04 GMT 1
News which doesn't appear to have been mentioned:
Wharfedale Packhorse have ceased operations.
Seems with the inability to operate their scheduled Saturday evening services, (presumably) hire the bus to kettlewell School and the cancellation of the Beer Festival, they've had to return the bus to the leasing company (or whoever they were financing it through).
This does NOT affect the daytime Wharfedale Venturer service 72B.
|
|
kenh
Forum Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by kenh on Nov 5, 2020 16:44:28 GMT 1
When I look at the services to Coniston, Great Langdale and Borrowdale in the lakes and compare to the desultory services in the Dales, I get so angry. Hourly Keswick - Borrowdale on a wet November day. 3 a day Settle - Horton in Ribblesdale, last bus from Settle 14:15, square root of nothing on Sundays.
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Nov 5, 2020 19:31:53 GMT 1
When I look at the services to Coniston, Great Langdale and Borrowdale in the lakes and compare to the desultory services in the Dales, I get so angry. Hourly Keswick - Borrowdale on a wet November day. 3 a day Settle - Horton in Ribblesdale, last bus from Settle 14:15, square root of nothing on Sundays. Keswick is a far bigger settlement compared to Settle (6709 v 2564) which may a bearing.
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,144
|
Post by joseph on Nov 5, 2020 20:02:10 GMT 1
When I look at the services to Coniston, Great Langdale and Borrowdale in the lakes and compare to the desultory services in the Dales, I get so angry. Hourly Keswick - Borrowdale on a wet November day. 3 a day Settle - Horton in Ribblesdale, last bus from Settle 14:15, square root of nothing on Sundays. It used to be more frequent between Settle and Horton, with a peak journey each way, however demand wasn't that great. Low demand was probably due to a combination of the train serving Horton well, and the intermediate villages not being big enough and having facilities (e.g. a Doctor or Dentist Horton and Settle residents would travel to) to sustain the frequency and operating hours of service. The school up Horton also shut as well. Paths between Settle and Horton aren't that popular with walkers compared to the three peaks paths around Horton and beyond, which the train service serves well.
One Dales service which has dramatically improved is the through link from Skipton to Lancaster via Settle and Ingleton, it's gone from 3 and 4 separate routes with few through connections, to what is marketed today as one through route (ok with separate numbers for different sections) on a two hourly through frequency and extra short journeys.
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Nov 6, 2020 0:56:48 GMT 1
When I look at the services to Coniston, Great Langdale and Borrowdale in the lakes and compare to the desultory services in the Dales, I get so angry. Hourly Keswick - Borrowdale on a wet November day. 3 a day Settle - Horton in Ribblesdale, last bus from Settle 14:15, square root of nothing on Sundays. Borrowdale is a much bigger tourist draw than Horton-in-Ribblesdibblesdale, and doesn't have the luxury of 7 trains a day that Horton does. The main reason that visitors go to Horton is to walk the Three Peaks, which is a challenge that takes most people 9 to 12 hours, and which most people do on a Saturday. As it's an hour by bus from the nearest town that (to quote Mark Steel) is too big to be towed away by a van, and even then it's only Skipton, the chances of there being a viable bus service that would allow walkers to get to Horton, complete the Three Peaks and get home again is slim. And not a lot of need when there is an adequate train service from Leeds, Keighley, Skipton and Settle that does run early/late enough. There's pretty much no other reason to go to Horton. The locals are determinedly anti-tourist, the café has closed down because residents were so opposed to it, the campsite is dreadful, the two pubs in the village are both spectacularly awful as only pubs serving a captive market can be, and that's it.
|
|