Public Transportless places in West Yorks

[joseph]

I thought I'd start a thread to see just how many places there are out there without any form of all year round public transport throughout West Yorkshire, and allowing for those just over the border where the nearest West Yorkshire town would be classed at somewhere those residents would go to regularly. Note there are some areas listed that have a seasonable service, such as the 821 serving Farnley, but this isn't an all year route.

I'll start off with the following, including examples of border villages/hamlets.

Beamsley (over the border in North Yorks, but very close to Ilkley)

Farnley, Leathley, hamlets around Norwood/Fewston and Aiskew (again in North Yorks, but close to Otley)

Weardley, Wike, Burley Woodhead, West Morton, Middleton (the one near Ilkley).

I can't think of any others at the moment, but as a side note, it's a bit strange that some really remote places get a near daily bus service, e.g. Krumlin and Pole Moor, yet others close to main roads and cities like Leeds get none, e.g. Weardley, Eccup Village and Wike. From those 3 villages you could string together a diverted 923 each way lol.

[Burnside]

Weardly was served until fairly recently by the 781 and i think the 923 pre-Transdev also went that way, but there's only so long you can serve a place and never pick a single passenger up till you start wondering why you bother when you can stick to the main road and cut journey times and slightly cut the fuel costs.

Only other place i can think of would be Hawksworth near Guiseley and Menston (used to be served by the 649 when it still ran beyond Esholt to Menston).

[dlspotter]

Tong village gets no bus service, yet has a Holiday Inn. Personally I think a Leeds-Pudsey-Tong-Bradford could work.

[Burnside]

Isn't Tong served by the 205 from Dewsbury to Pudsey?

[joseph]

Good shout on Tong Village as it has the garden centre up there as well, I wonder if extending the 15 a few times via Tong Village to Westgate Hill, Drighlington and Birstall Retail Park during the daytime would work? I've seen it carry fresh air any time I've seen up Cross Green during the day, and I suspect it's only really needed up there around work start/finish times. Regarding Weardley, I did use the 781 around 2 years ago on a few occasions, and it did drop off one or two people in the village.

[joseph]

Jul 29, 2020 14:25:46 GMT 1 Burnside said:

Isn't Tong served by the 205 from Dewsbury to Pudsey?

Not quite, there is a small section of housing on Tong Road, more nearer Old Farnley, that it serves but the village itself is a good mile up the road.

[dlspotter]

Jul 29, 2020 14:25:46 GMT 1 Burnside said:

Isn't Tong served by the 205 from Dewsbury to Pudsey?

About a 20-25 minute walk from the nearest 205 stop or 15-20 minutes for 425/427.

[dlspotter]

Jul 29, 2020 14:30:24 GMT 1 joseph said:

Good shout on Tong Village as it has the garden centre up there as well, I wonder if extending the 15 a few times via Tong Village to Westgate Hill, Drighlington and Birstall Retail Park during the daytime would work? I've seen it carry fresh air any time I've seen up Cross Green during the day, and I suspect it's only really needed up there around work start/finish times. Regarding Weardley, I did use the 781 around 2 years ago on a few occasions, and it did drop off one or two people in the village.

Could work as a shopper service, but if it's a commuter village it would be useful having a Leeds/Bradford more direct run at peak times, or at least a bus to a train station like New Pudsey.

[joseph]

Been doing a bit of digging and as a bit of interest, in the early 80s Tong had a Monday to Saturday bus to and from Bradford AM and PM peak with a Friday only mid afternoon return working as well.

[deerfold]

Jul 29, 2020 14:30:24 GMT 1 joseph said:

Good shout on Tong Village as it has the garden centre up there as well, I wonder if extending the 15 a few times via Tong Village to Westgate Hill, Drighlington and Birstall Retail Park during the daytime would work? I've seen it carry fresh air any time I've seen up Cross Green during the day, and I suspect it's only really needed up there around work start/finish times. Regarding Weardley, I did use the 781 around 2 years ago on a few occasions, and it did drop off one or two people in the village.

The 94 from Leeds to Drighlington and Birstall never seemed very popular - though the operating hours may have been a bit short.

[joseph]

Aug 4, 2020 11:02:14 GMT 1 deerfold said:

Jul 29, 2020 14:30:24 GMT 1 joseph said:

Good shout on Tong Village as it has the garden centre up there as well, I wonder if extending the 15 a few times via Tong Village to Westgate Hill, Drighlington and Birstall Retail Park during the daytime would work? I've seen it carry fresh air any time I've seen up Cross Green during the day, and I suspect it's only really needed up there around work start/finish times. Regarding Weardley, I did use the 781 around 2 years ago on a few occasions, and it did drop off one or two people in the village.

The 94 from Leeds to Drighlington and Birstall never seemed very popular - though the operating hours may have been a bit short.

But if the marketing is good, and is specifically aimed at those living in the Armley and Old Farnley area, then a direct link to Ikea/the retail park via Tong Garden Centre may go down well even if it is just off peak during the day.

[WYBS]

I've always wondered why Ilkley has fewer buses than Otley (particularly local routes) when according to Google it has a slightly higher population.

Is this because Ilkley tends to be more affluent than Otley and maybe private car ownership is more common, or that they have a train station in the centre?

[Burnside]

Probably a bit of both, to be honest.

A large portion of the Ilkley population are wealthy and own cars, plus a lot of the housing areas are either uphill from the town centre (Hebers Ghyll etc) or across the river (Middleton) with bus services into town either infrequent, indirect or non-existant.

If you're in Middleton with a £60k Mercedes on your driveway, you've either got a 20+ minute walk up hill to get into town or you jump in the car. Once you're in the car, are you gonna park in town and use public transport to go to Leeds or Bradford or carry on driving knowing you won't have anything up to 60 minutes to wait to get back?

Likewise, when you reach town, do you get a nice leather seated double decker to Leeds taking 1hr20 or a train taking just 28 minutes?

If Otley still had a railway station (particularly if it still linked with the Wharfedale Line at one end and the Leeds - Harrogate line at the other, I think the level of bus service provision would be a lot different.

[joseph]

It's a strange one as both are about the same size. I suspect with Ilkley, it's more a combination of of high car ownership and walking. The majority of Ilkley residents are within reasonable walking distance (provided you are fit for some parts) to the train station. Those who prefer not to drive and live on the hill side of Ilkley probably walk down in the morning, and get a taxi back if they don't feel like walking in the evening.

[deerfold]

They used to have broadly similar numbers of buses with both having 2 an hour to Bradford and 3 slow buses an hour to Leeds with most of the x84s going to both.

But I think the improvement in rail was the main factor that killed off Ilkley's buses.

[Bradford Traveller]

Aug 5, 2020 8:29:22 GMT 1 deerfold said:

They used to have broadly similar numbers of buses with both having 2 an hour to Bradford and 3 slow buses an hour to Leeds with most of the x84s going to both.

But I think the improvement in rail was the main factor that killed off Ilkley's buses.

The "spark effect" killed off the Bradford to Ilkley bus service as most travellers used the trains.

However I'm not sure why the Bradford to Otley buses no longer exist

[joseph]

With Otley, it's the spark effect as well because many Bradford users found changing at Menston quicker, and at the time the direct Bradford bus last ran there was a station link bus from Otley to Menston which I think connected with a mix of both Bradford and Leeds trains.

[deerfold]

Bradford to Guiseley used to have 2x Bradford to Ilkley, 2x Bradford to Otley, 1x Bradford to Airport, 2x Bradford to Leeds every hour and a handful of other services. Now there's just one bus an hour. Whilst there's been reducing numbers on other services, few areas have seen cuts like that - I think most of it is down to the much improved rail service.

I caught the bus between Bradford and Otley regularly in the late nineties when there was one an hour with a couple of peak extras. They were rarely busy.

[dlspotter]

Aug 5, 2020 13:39:24 GMT 1 deerfold said:

Bradford to Guiseley used to have 2x Bradford to Ilkley, 2x Bradford to Otley, 1x Bradford to Airport, 2x Bradford to Leeds every hour and a handful of other services. Now there's just one bus an hour. Whilst there's been reducing numbers on other services, few areas have seen cuts like that - I think most of it is down to the much improved rail service.

I caught the bus between Bradford and Otley regularly in the late nineties when there was one an hour with a couple of peak extras. They were rarely busy.

I still think a Bradford - Shipley - Otley bus route would be useful for people. I was at Otley bus stn last year and a woman asked when the bus to Shipley was, the man at the bus station said the best way to get there would be to take the 62 to the Airport and change to the 737 down.

[joseph]

All this talk about the new 164 triggered another hamlet not served, but I can't quite remember what it's called. It's something like Newfield or Newbold, it's down a country lane just off the B1222 not far from Sherburn. Briestfield near Grange Moor is another place not served.

[joseph]

Recently, I discovered a hamlet on a main road with no bus service called Booth Wood, complete with a pub too, it's quite a long way from the nearest bus service (586) on the stretch of A672 between Ripponden and Booth Wood Reservoir. You'd have thought it would have some form of bus service be it a limited one, say a couple of Saturday workings on an amended 587. The current bus used on the 587 is ideal for the back roads it would need to use to get back on route (Pike Hills Road and the other back road up to the A58 by Baitings Dam) and using these roads wouldn't add much onto the journey time, probably no more than 10 to 12 mins. They could even apply to Metro for a bus stop to be installed on Pike Hills Road near the other pub just at the bottom of that road, might attract more passengers. Now, there is a down side I'll admit, as in a sizeable urban stretch of the A58 from Ripponden to Baitings Dam will have a few missed journeys, but for what I've seen in my time, that stretch hasn't been used much.

[deerfold]

Nov 21, 2021 8:55:19 GMT 1 joseph said:

Recently, I discovered a hamlet on a main road with no bus service called Booth Wood, complete with a pub too, it's quite a long way from the nearest bus service (586) on the stretch of A672 between Ripponden and Booth Wood Reservoir. You'd have thought it would have some form of bus service be it a limited one, say a couple of Saturday workings on an amended 587. The current bus used on the 587 is ideal for the back roads it would need to use to get back on route (Pike Hills Road and the other back road up to the A58 by Baitings Dam) and using these roads wouldn't add much onto the journey time, probably no more than 10 to 12 mins. They could even apply to Metro for a bus stop to be installed on Pike Hills Road near the other pub just at the bottom of that road, might attract more passengers. Now, there is a down side I'll admit, as in a sizeable urban stretch of the A58 from Ripponden to Baitings Dam will have a few missed journeys, but for what I've seen in my time, that stretch hasn't been used much.

Once the 562 hourly Oldham service was withdrawn, 4 services a day were extended there (also known as Cunning Corner) from Rishworth. They were very lightly used and soon withdrawn.

Going from the A58 would be a massive diversion along small lightly populated roads.

[joseph]

Nov 21, 2021 10:28:05 GMT 1 deerfold said:

Nov 21, 2021 8:55:19 GMT 1 joseph said:

Recently, I discovered a hamlet on a main road with no bus service called Booth Wood, complete with a pub too, it's quite a long way from the nearest bus service (586) on the stretch of A672 between Ripponden and Booth Wood Reservoir. You'd have thought it would have some form of bus service be it a limited one, say a couple of Saturday workings on an amended 587. The current bus used on the 587 is ideal for the back roads it would need to use to get back on route (Pike Hills Road and the other back road up to the A58 by Baitings Dam) and using these roads wouldn't add much onto the journey time, probably no more than 10 to 12 mins. They could even apply to Metro for a bus stop to be installed on Pike Hills Road near the other pub just at the bottom of that road, might attract more passengers. Now, there is a down side I'll admit, as in a sizeable urban stretch of the A58 from Ripponden to Baitings Dam will have a few missed journeys, but for what I've seen in my time, that stretch hasn't been used much.

Once the 562 hourly Oldham service was withdrawn, 4 services a day were extended there (also known as Cunning Corner) from Rishworth. They were very lightly used and soon withdrawn.

Going from the A58 would be a massive diversion along small lightly populated roads.

Oh it is quite a large diversion I'll agree as I've walked the diversion route recently from Baitings Dam down to Rishworth via Booth Wood, but passenger loadings aren't really that high on the A58 stretch up to Baitings Dam, so I can't see the harm in trialing 2 Saturday journeys each way to see if it improves loadings. The two pubs on the A672 alone, along with Booth Wood Reservoir should be a good enough pull on days when weather is good. At the time when the 562 was extended, I think the pub by Booth Wood was shut. As an alternative, there could even be an argument for diverting the 901 twice each way on Saturdays as that's used a lot by leisure travellers.

[deerfold]

Nov 21, 2021 10:48:58 GMT 1 joseph said:

Nov 21, 2021 10:28:05 GMT 1 deerfold said:

Once the 562 hourly Oldham service was withdrawn, 4 services a day were extended there (also known as Cunning Corner) from Rishworth. They were very lightly used and soon withdrawn.

Going from the A58 would be a massive diversion along small lightly populated roads.

Oh it is quite a large diversion I'll agree as I've walked the diversion route recently from Baitings Dam down to Rishworth via Booth Wood, but passenger loadings aren't really that high on the A58 stretch up to Baitings Dam, so I can't see the harm in trialing 2 Saturday journeys each way to see if it improves loadings. The two pubs on the A672 alone, along with Booth Wood Reservoir should be a good enough pull on days when weather is good. At the time when the 562 was extended, I think the pub by Booth Wood was shut. As an alternative, there could even be an argument for diverting the 901 twice each way on Saturdays as that's used a lot by leisure travellers.

The 587 comes in at just under an hour each way, so takes 2 buses to run. Add in a diversion like that and you'll need another bus. That's going to add a lot to the costs.

The 900/901 no longer runs every 60 minutes - it's now every 70 so it can be run with 2 buses. You're looking at extending some trips by 20%.

I can't see any sensible way of serving it except by diverting the 586 0.8 mile each way.

[joseph]

Nov 21, 2021 11:18:52 GMT 1 deerfold said:

Nov 21, 2021 10:48:58 GMT 1 joseph said:

Oh it is quite a large diversion I'll agree as I've walked the diversion route recently from Baitings Dam down to Rishworth via Booth Wood, but passenger loadings aren't really that high on the A58 stretch up to Baitings Dam, so I can't see the harm in trialing 2 Saturday journeys each way to see if it improves loadings. The two pubs on the A672 alone, along with Booth Wood Reservoir should be a good enough pull on days when weather is good. At the time when the 562 was extended, I think the pub by Booth Wood was shut. As an alternative, there could even be an argument for diverting the 901 twice each way on Saturdays as that's used a lot by leisure travellers.

The 587 comes in at just under an hour each way, so takes 2 buses to run. Add in a diversion like that and you'll need another bus. That's going to add a lot to the costs.

The 900/901 no longer runs every 60 minutes - it's now every 70 so it can be run with 2 buses. You're looking at extending some trips by 20%.

I can't see any sensible way of serving it except by diverting the 586 0.8 mile each way.

Thought about the 586 however it has no way of turning unless the pub by Booth Reservoir allows buses to turn, which I know has been an issue before. It could do a circuit via Pike Hills Road returning onto the normal route at Commons however that road isn't really suited to a full size single decker. The 901 has a bit of layover in Ripponden, as well as at Hebden Bridge so I was thinking this layover could be used to divert via Booth Wood.