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Post by jdodger08 on Feb 11, 2018 14:29:05 GMT 1
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 11, 2018 21:13:54 GMT 1
That is a huge area, and it does look like something of an overreaction ... but maybe the CAZ does need to take in all the residential areas to stop non-compliant vehicles diverting through them to avoid the CAZ. In terms of buses, it is unlikely to make a big difference whether the CAZ covers just the city centre or the whole city, because there are not many orbital services that only graze the edges without running into the middle. What appears to be missing from the press release and consultation is any mention of timescale or phasing. The proposals made for the York CAZ set out possible phased approaches that would give operators – particularly those who only run infrequent services – more time to reach Euro VI levels but with stages along the way (eg minimum Euro IV by 2020 leading up to Euro VI by 2024). First Leeds has announced an investment of £71m to introduce over 280 new Euro VI buses, in order to meet the requirements of the CAZ. That looks like it covers the vast majority of the investment needed. Arriva already use Euro VI buses on the 163/166, 189 and 254/255, so there are still a few routes that need to be upgraded. Transdev already use Euro VI buses on 36, 60 and most Coastliner buses but not on 70/71 or either CityZap route. Tiger already run Euro VI buses on the 757, and they don't have (m)any other significant routes within the zone that I can see. Beyond that, it looks like there just a handful of fringe services from Connexions, Squarepeg and LOT would need a couple of compliant buses; Stagecoach usually do seem to use Euro VI buses on the X62 but not so much on the X10. The strange lack of diversity in Leeds bus operations means that seems to be the whole thing sewn up. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 11, 2018 23:09:29 GMT 1
Although you are forgetting school buses run by CT Plus, Tetleys, Squarepeg, J&B Travel, Hunters Coaches, Connexions, A&A Travel and GSAL Transport
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 11, 2018 23:38:06 GMT 1
Although you are forgetting school buses run by CT Plus, Tetleys, Squarepeg, J&B Travel, Hunters Coaches, Connexions, A&A Travel and GSAL Transport That's true, I hadn't taken them into consideration. Although that is less of an issue as far as operations go, because if Leeds City Council wants to introduce a CAZ and Leeds City Council provides the contracts for home-to-school transport then any additional costs incurred by the requirement to upgrade the fleet will simply be added to the contract price. With all operators likely to be in the same boat, the council will have no option but to pay what is needed. |
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Feb 12, 2018 6:59:38 GMT 1
Beyond that, it looks like there just a handful of fringe services from Connexions, Squarepeg and LOT would need a couple of compliant buses; . LOT aren't in operation anymore |
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 12, 2018 8:44:49 GMT 1
Beyond that, it looks like there just a handful of fringe services from Connexions, Squarepeg and LOT would need a couple of compliant buses; . LOT aren't in operation anymore That did ring a vague bell, but I was just trawling the list on Metro and they were still listed on there so I assumed I had remembered wrong ... apparently not! |
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Post by jdodger08 on Feb 12, 2018 14:35:48 GMT 1
In terms of First this will only encourage the common practice of Leeds depots having high spec new busses and the bad fleet being cascaded elsewhere in Yorkshire.
Arriva have an easier job as only a select amount of services travel to Leeds therefore they just need to ensure they have the vehicles to cover them.
I feel like all this propaganda around the operators investing in "new vehicles" and "cleaner emissions" for passenger comfort and better journeys has all been a scam to avoid this CAZ in the future.
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Post by twansport on Feb 13, 2018 18:39:57 GMT 1
The other thing I am wondering about are the non First Leeds services that operate in the CAZ.
First Bradford X11 and 670
First Halifax 508
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Post by ajw11239 on Feb 13, 2018 22:11:08 GMT 1
The other thing I am wondering about are the non First Leeds services that operate in the CAZ. First Bradford X11 and 670 First Halifax 508 I'd imagine they'll also get new(er) buses then. But as it's been said above, I doubt anywhere else in West Yorkshire will be seeing anything new. First barely invest in new buses as it is. It's worth saying though that now the Government's Clean Air Fund awards have been announced, WYCA have been given the money to retrofit 156 buses, and Leeds City Council the money for a further 75 buses which will make them Euro VI - so I assume meet the prerequisites for the clean air zone. So that's 231 older vehicles (potentially) which can stay in Leeds without needing replacing - but not been specified which buses yet or where. ( more info here) Ultimately the clean air zone is a great idea but it needs to be replicated everywhere for it to work because the areas without one will get the dirtier vehicles. |
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Feb 14, 2018 0:31:58 GMT 1
What will happen in terms of Heritage buses on running days or weddings/ special event hires?
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 14, 2018 17:14:56 GMT 1
What will happen in terms of Heritage buses on running days or weddings/ special event hires? Non-Euro VI vehicles are liable for a charge, I think it is planned to be £100/day. |
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Post by steviewevie on Feb 14, 2018 18:53:55 GMT 1
Perhaps they will be made exempt.
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Post by jimobasa on Feb 14, 2018 19:29:23 GMT 1
All this clean air and zero emissions business is just a money making scam for the local authority. I am old enough to remember a time when the average British home had an open coal fire as its heat source and unleaded petrol hadn't even been thought of. Not a word from the government of the day about health issues, and no unwarranted interference with the tobacco industry either.
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 14, 2018 20:04:58 GMT 1
All this clean air and zero emissions business is just a money making scam for the local authority. I am old enough to remember a time when the average British home had an open coal fire as its heat source and unleaded petrol hadn't even been thought of. Not a word from the government of the day about health issues, and no unwarranted interference with the tobacco industry either. There are two reasons I can think of why governments past wouldn't have made such a big deal about the health problems caused by pollution: 1 - they didn't know what the effects were in as much detail as we do now. 2 - without the technology to solve the problem, there wasn't much point in making a fuss. We do know that a lot of people suffered ill health and premature death because of respiratory illnesses caused by pollution in the past. Some of that was undoubtedly because medical science was less advanced and so there were not as many options for treatment as we have now, but even putting that to one side, it was still a big killer. Also, remember that people died younger from all sorts of factors, including higher mortality rates on the roads, much less stringent health and safety legislation in the workplace, and far less effective and accessible treatment for a whole host of diseases and conditions. When fewer people reach old age, fewer people have the opportunity to develop those long-term conditions, particularly many cancers. To think that local councils are only pretending to be concerned about air quality for their own financial gain is an even more crazy conspiracy theory than climate change denial. Pollution kills, we know that, and we have the means to do something about it. |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Feb 15, 2018 9:40:57 GMT 1
In fact they are doing the opposite of a money making scheme as most are targeting the people most likely to react and the least likely to settle for paying the fee in bus & truck industry (either through fleet replacement or retro-fitting). If it were purely a money making exercise they would be targeting cars & vans which account for most of the pollution, retro-fitting is not proven & most people couldn't afford to replace quickly but are politically difficult as it directly involves local voters and is seen as very unpopular. The accusation is that local authorities are only paying lip-service to the problem, being seen to be doing something by taking on this big vehicles which aren't the problem and becoming less of one (a Euro6 bus produces less pollution than a Euro6 diesel car on a per vehicle basis and because PSV/HGV testing is done in the real world not in labs, see the VW emissions scandal, this is a provable real-world comparison not theoretical) rather than actually dealing with the real problems. London has a slightly different approach to most regional cities as they are planning to cover cars & vans as well and are also considering addressing emissions from non-transport sources (such as wood burning stoves which have started becoming trendy again) which are a major contributor, but then London has always been prepared to take a political risk on these things which many regional authorities have shied away from.
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Post by leeds rider on Feb 15, 2018 13:57:24 GMT 1
All this clean air and zero emissions business is just a money making scam for the local authority. I am old enough to remember a time when the average British home had an open coal fire as its heat source and unleaded petrol hadn't even been thought of. Not a word from the government of the day about health issues, and no unwarranted interference with the tobacco industry either. (Cough!) Clean Air Act 1956. Clean Air Act 1968. Clean Air Act 1993. |
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Feb 15, 2018 14:33:53 GMT 1
What will happen in terms of Heritage buses on running days or weddings/ special event hires? Might be like London's Congestion Zone, just Mon-Fri, thereby leaving the weekend, free. |
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Post by deerfold on Feb 15, 2018 18:54:47 GMT 1
What will happen in terms of Heritage buses on running days or weddings/ special event hires? Might be like London's Congestion Zone, just Mon-Fri, thereby leaving the weekend, free. Although London's ULEZ will operate 24/7. tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone |
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Post by stevieinselby on Jun 23, 2019 22:59:39 GMT 1
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Oct 13, 2020 21:33:06 GMT 1
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Post by sharksmith on Feb 25, 2021 10:59:49 GMT 1
Bradford Council are voting on their own Clean Air Zone next Tuesday. Due to come into force from January 4th 2022. Charges for vehicles below Euro 6 standard. Could Bradford end up with buses as new as, or newer, than Leeds. Probably not as funding will be available to upgrade buses to Euro 6.
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Post by Burnside on Feb 25, 2021 12:01:25 GMT 1
Ah, the irony of Bradford introducing a Clean Air Zone, while simultaneously giving approval for the construction of a giant incinerator on the outskirts of Keighley...
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Feb 25, 2021 12:24:39 GMT 1
Leeds' fleet could tranafer to Bradford. Nothing stopping the vehicles being transferred out now the CAZ has gone. If that does happen, you'd see the panic in LCC leaders faces as they propose the CAZ again
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 25, 2021 18:57:42 GMT 1
Leeds' fleet could tranafer to Bradford. Nothing stopping the vehicles being transferred out now the CAZ has gone. If that does happen, you'd see the panic in LCC leaders faces as they propose the CAZ again I'm not sure many of the newer fleet can be (the 67 reg onwards) as they were part funded by LCC wern't they? |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Feb 25, 2021 23:23:02 GMT 1
Leeds' fleet could tranafer to Bradford. Nothing stopping the vehicles being transferred out now the CAZ has gone. If that does happen, you'd see the panic in LCC leaders faces as they propose the CAZ again I'm not sure many of the newer fleet can be (the 67 reg onwards) as they were part funded by LCC wern't they? From what I saw, grants were only available for non scheduled buses & coaches of upto £16,000. Never seen anything to say they've supported First, I assume it was First saw the need to upgrade or pay £50 per day per vehicle. |
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