Coach driver taking it to far

[Davidc]

I hope people don’t mind me posting this here but I want to share with you the situation I have recently gone through while going about my hobby.

It is often reported about the continual harassment bus enthusiasts have to endure when undertaking our simple and harmless hobby. Police and Security personnel stop and search us under various parts of the terrorism act for doing something that courses no harm to any body. My problem here, however, lies with the employees of the buses that we are photographing. All though many do not seem to mind us going about our hobby some take it in them to deal with us as if we are nothing.

I recently had the misfortune to come across a driver who took it into his own hands to deal with me and my harmless bus photography. During a break from work I headed over to Preston railway station to see the rail replacement coaches that had been laid on due to problems on the railway. On arrival I began to take pictures of these and all was going well till I got to a line of 5 coaches from the same fleet. They where moving slowly into the car park so I took a picture of each one as they passed me. The driver of the last coach took some disliking to my actions and took it upon him self to tell me how he felt, leaving his coach blocking the car park in the process.

His attitude towards me was unpleasant and aggressive from the start and he immediately demanded that I delete the picture from my camera. To this I refused as the camera and picture where property to my self and that he had no right to tell me what to do, more so in the manner that he did. This did little to re-leave the situation so he began to try and take the camera from my hand so that he could delete it himself. My reaction was to hold on and demand him to stop but he became more forceful so I relented and let him have it. To no surprise he had no clue what to do so I got it back and I deleted the picture, the driver releasing me from this ordeal on seeing this happen.

Although the picture may have gone I was still able to get the registration of the coach, fleet name and even the telephone number on the rear. I immediately returned to work from where I contacted the British Transport Police giving them full details of what had happened. They are now dealing with the situation.

I want to name and shame the company who employ this driver as I feel other people should be aware of what could happen. Atlantic Travel is the operator in question; no doubt some people on here will have heard of them or their previous operating names. They are based in Bolton and seem to have a bit of a reputation regarding bus work as they had their licence revoked when operating under a different name a few years back.

I have posted this not for people to take sides or feel sorry for me but to show what can happen if things go wrong. Although this ordeal has left me shaken, I am undeterred to let this spoil my enthusiasm for the bus industry. And all I say to others is to watch out, not every one is happy with our hobby.

David.c

P.S: I have posted this on other forums as I want people to be aware of the hidden dangers that lurk with in our hobby and for them to take care next time they are out and about photographing buses.

[arriva]

i agree the harassment is wrong and should be stopped as this is just a harmless hobby

[kendall17]

saw 1 of their motors when in manchester last night plaxton excalibur it was.

maybe try sending your above story to said operator and maybe suggest them to have a word with their drivers as this sort of behavouir could end up seeing the police involved which could mean late journeys for them on rail replacement etc.

it'd be worth a try

[jackh]

I think the days of carrying out our hobby discretely our over which is a shame. When carrying an SLR in a none touristy place, there is this association of either been a pedophile or a terrorist, either way, some disgruntled member of the public gets the wrong idea and calls the police which is bad luck for us.

Drivers confronting us on taking a photo of them is also becoming problematic, even though we are taking a photo of the vehicle they're driving, not the passengers or the driver themselves as the matter of interest in the photo. However, could this increase in the problem be linked to more photos ending up in the public domain and not just for our own personal use. For example, a few members on here have fotopic sites or flickr pages where we load our photo collections to for other people to enjoy. Management of companies can also access these photos plus any other authority so drivers who are not playing by the book are more likely to get caught out and action taken against them. So there is no surprise that the more dodgy drivers don't take kindly to our hobby.

[6u3zr]

I heard an interesting take on this situation at the weekend.

A friend, who is a driver for one of the majors in the South, had been repeatedly asked by a local independent to drive for them on his days off CASH IN HAND.

He'd declined, but he knows colleagues who have taken this up.

A photograph of them behind the wheel could end up with them explaining why they're not declaring their income for this work, hence the possible hostility towards photographers.

Obviously this does'nt encompass drivers for majors sulking - although the Independent in question (a former client of mine) has - or at least had - a formidable reputation as an honest operator.

Rail replacement work was once the doyen in the pantheon of contracts, but recently it seems to have been swamped by the "lower end" of the independent market. I am aware of the history of Atlantic Travel (I can think of two different names they've traded under previously) and the likes of this company are gleefully undercutting more reputable operators whose higher tender submissions reflect better quality vehicles and staff.

[guyarab]

It is sad that drivers have to resort to these tactics when mostly their faces are not seen because of the reflection from the windscreen, or the angle of the bus in the picture.

I have had only three "skirmishes", two in Dewsbury, where a 268 driver didn't take kindly to having his picture taken, but was quite happy when he wasn't in view; the other was a K-Line driver on a Metro subsidised summer run from Oakwell Hall Country Park to Dewsbury and on to Holmfirth (a 9xx route number I think), where he simply gesticulated (and was clear in the image). The third was in Kos, Greece, where the driver shouted from within his vehicle, "papparazzi!".

I have mentioned on this forum previously, that it is not wise to take pictures of any sort in the grounds of the White Rose Centre without prior permission (and you won't get it either).

As for the police and terrorism, some ideas of your rights under Section 44 of the Act are set out here.

Before Section 44, police could only stop and search if they "had reasonable grounds" and certain criteria were met. That is no longer necessary. You can check out www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk to what is expected of the police when searching.

During the search, police can only give you a pat down, remove outer clothing, search any bags and empty your pockets.
You do not have to give your name, or address, or explain why you are there.
You must not flee the search, but you do not have to be actively compliant either, e.g. you can "go limp" as an act of passive resistance if you wish.
The police have no permission to collect DNA samples, nor do you have to comply if they want to take your photograph or record you.
You should note the time, details of the officer(s) and any events leading to the search and also note the exact wording the police use.
Ask the police for the reason for searching you; they have to explain.
If there are any females amongst us - they are not allowed to be touched by any male police officer during the search.

After the search retain the Search Record (or any other documentation) the police may give you.
Make notes about the search while you can remember the details, but don't write down anything you do not wish to disclose to the police (in case you are searched again).
You can consider making a complaint. Source: "Digital Photographer" issue 71 p. 11.

These may seem a little extreme, but it is better to be wise to the facts. It may help to have some form of identity and a few pictures to show your hobby.

[Craig]

While the incident highlighted at the beginning of this thread does sound like the driver took things too far, it is important to remember that people may not wish to be photographed, and regardless of whether or not they can legally tell you not to take photos it is common courtesy to not demand it. With regards to people who have struggled to take photos on private property, such as the example of the White Rose Centre, owners of property are completely within their rights to move you along and you should only be photographing with prior consent. Finally, if the police had any reason to suspect you were up to no good, they can and will have a word with you or search you etc.

[transportem]

The best way to avoid confrontation with any drivers who object to photography (if you're particually concerned about it) is to stand and take photographs from a place where they can't stop to challenge you, for example when the vehicle is moving between stops. The worst then can do here is stick up a finger or two!

Another option, when taking pictures of stationary vehicles in bus stations or at stops, is to go and ask the driver nicely if (s)he would mind you taking a picture of the bus. If the driver refuses then just thank them for their time and wait for the next bus to come along, it's not the end of the world!