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Post by guyarab on Sept 24, 2008 12:47:04 GMT 1
I have a question for the train buffs amongst us.
Yesterday evening I was on the Hull-Manchester Piccadilly train which departed Leeds at 1740 from platform 16 and at the same time, the London King's Cross train left from platform 6 (both are the usual departure points). The Hull-Manchester train was running alongside the London train for a while, but I would like to know how it manages to make the turning towards Wakefield before the Manchester bound train comtinues straight on, without the latter having to stop.
I cannot imagine how it works as it seems one has to cross the path of the other. Anyone know the procedure please?
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Steve Macz403
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Waits at the bus stop for his bus, 2 days later bus turns up :D
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Sept 24, 2008 14:02:13 GMT 1
the line to wakefield and huddersfield run parallel then the line to huddersfield goes downwards, while the line to wakefield stays above, theres a bridge above the line to huddersfield and thats the line to wakefield . The bridge junctions along whitehall Road, a bit later within the railway track where the bridge crossover is. here's the link to see where the liones cross over maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=leeds&ie=UTF8&ll=53.786455,-1.576002&spn=0.002751,0.006502&t=h&z=17
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Post by guyarab on Sept 24, 2008 20:58:43 GMT 1
Thanks for the help, but I think there is an error on my part. The Manchester bound train departs at 17.35 and the other train (which I saw today) was travelling towards BRADFORD! Not sure why because I haven't found anything advertised going that way around that time.
Could it be the train, due to arrive from London at 17.36, arriving early, but going where?
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Post by Craig on Sept 24, 2008 21:48:38 GMT 1
Not sure what you mean - the odd NXEC train reverses at Leeds and continues to Bradford, but not until later in the evening I think. Unless you mean a Northern service to Bradford, which would have been going to Forster Square, I think these depart at around 10 and 40 mins past the hour.
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Post by guyarab on Sept 25, 2008 13:26:05 GMT 1
The train running alongside the Manchester bound one was definitely NatEx. If I'm on the Manchester one today, I will try for a closer look. The NatEx may have been running empty for some reason.
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Davidc
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Post by Davidc on Sept 26, 2008 14:19:52 GMT 1
The only North bound Leeds - Bradford Forster Sq National Express service arrives at Leeds at 19.53 getting to Bradford at 2022. All other trains will be Northern operated. So the train you sore could possably have been a Kings Cross service or an ECS working.
I think there are 6 different lines on departure from Leeds in a West bound direction leading to. Castleford, Huddersfield, Wakefield Westgate, Bradford Interchange, Skipton and Harrogate.
David.c
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Post by olympian on Sept 26, 2008 19:52:39 GMT 1
Theres a nat EX to Skipton
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Post by Craig on Sept 27, 2008 17:44:54 GMT 1
Weekdays the NXEC to Skipton departs at 2033, so again this is far too late to fit in with the sighting - was it definitely not just going to London?!
From Leeds' platforms heading westward, all trains pass through one of 6 signals on separate lines (A - F), but of course there is a multitude of points that allow trains from most platforms to head off in most westerly directions. The exceptions being the eastbound only platforms (obviously!) and platforms 1 to 6 do not lead to the Woodlesford line.
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Post by guyarab on Sept 27, 2008 22:37:10 GMT 1
It seems I am causing some scratching of heads here, but on Thursday as I passed on the 17:40 (correct departure time!!!) I saw one NatEx train parked at platform 6 (dull silver/grey "loco") and just leaving from platform 8 was this NatEx thing heading in the Bradford direction. This one was in the GNER colours. Now with these trains having darkened windows it is difficult to tell whether either of these two were carrying passengers.
Confused? I certainly am.
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Post by Craig on Sept 27, 2008 23:28:14 GMT 1
When you say heading off in the Bradford direction, do you mean it had actually branched off up towards Armley or you just saw it at Whitehall junction and therefore it was probably headed for London.
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Post by guyarab on Sept 28, 2008 10:16:51 GMT 1
The first time I saw the train it seemed as though it was going to cut across the path of the Manchester bound train and head off towards London (not sure this can be done with both trains running closely together), but on the other occasions we have moved past the split over the Armley Gyratory and it was seen heading for Bradford (or even towards Headingley perhaps).
I wonder if it could be just a positioning move to bring it back to another platform for its next southbound journey?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 28, 2008 14:44:57 GMT 1
I think you are confused about where the various lines branch off. The Wakefield Westgate line crosses the Huddersfield line via a bridge in Wortley and therefore trains to London and trains to Huddersfield can depart at the same time without a problem
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Post by guyarab on Sept 29, 2008 8:57:16 GMT 1
Are you sure? Trains from platform 6 or 8 would have to cross the path of a train leaving platform 16 surely?
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Post by angrycommuter on Sept 29, 2008 14:46:41 GMT 1
They run parallel until the Wakefield line climbs up and then heads over the Huddersfield Line.
I have been on the 17.43 service to Sheffield via Dewsbury and Hudds departing Leeds at the same time as the 17.40 London train. The Class 144 I was on outpaced the Class 91 easily over the junctions leaving the station. It's a good feeling to overtake a Class 91 on a pacer! The two trains then head past each side of the White Rose Centre at around the same time.
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Post by guyarab on Sept 30, 2008 19:42:56 GMT 1
Didn't see it on Friday/Monday, but it was back again today - on its way to Bradford (or some other place). We were in front of it and when I saw the train, we had passed the split between the lines for Huddersfield and Bradford, so with all your kind remarks and suggestions, I am still no nearer finding a solution and it's now starting to grate on me!
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Davidc
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Post by Davidc on Oct 1, 2008 16:40:11 GMT 1
Right so let me get this straight. You are on a TPX service heading in the Manchester direction at 17.40 and its running parallel with a National Express service which is leaving at the same time.
If this is so then according to the National Rail web site there are two departures at 17.40. One is a TPX service for Manchester Piccadilly, the other is a National Express service heading for London Kings Cross. Details off the web site:
London Kings Cross 17:40 Starts here National Express East Coast Manchester Piccadilly 17:40 No report First TransPennine Express
Is this what you are seeing each time? They can depart at the same time and not get each others way, as (as already stated many times here) the line to Wakefield passes over the line to Huddersfield via a bridge. I carnt see the National Express service shunting between platforms and if it was ECS where would it be going? The depot is East of Leeds station.
Any closer yet to solving this?
David.c
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Post by guyarab on Oct 2, 2008 15:25:44 GMT 1
It's not resolved yet David. The NatEx train definitely heads in the direction of Bradford. I think it's the one that arrived in Leeds from KX at 17:36 (perhapd ahead of time) because there is also a NatEx train still alongside the platform as the TPX leaves. So where is it going and why?
Now this "bridge" thing baffles me. The two trains may run alongside each other for a time, but how would a London bound train cross the path of one going to Manchester without the latter waiting at a signal? We could do with someone working at Leeds to tell us I think. Does anyone know such a person?
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Davidc
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Post by Davidc on Oct 2, 2008 16:04:37 GMT 1
The bridge this is very simple really. As you depart Leeds heading for Manchester you will (eventually) have the line to London on the right (facing direction of travel). This line rises up and then crosses over the Huddersfield line by means of an over bridge. The lines do not come into contact with each other in doing this. A train for London and a train for Manchester can leave from platforms 6 and 16 respectively and not get in the way of each other. I don’t know how else it can be explained. As for the train I have no idea, there’s no National Express trains timetabled to head to Bradford till later in the evening. The 17.36 arrival from London Kings Cross would not from the 17.40 back to London as that’s to tight a turn round. After the 17.40 departure for London there isn’t a National Express departure till 18.04 if not more (live departure board doesn’t go any further at time of posting). You really are giving us a work out with this one David.c
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Post by jackh on Oct 2, 2008 17:05:26 GMT 1
Stephen, the Wakefield and Caldervale do share the same tracks by the Gyratory of which the Caldervale Line splits off and goes towards Bradford whilst the Wakefield Line ascends and then crosses the Huddersfield Line by bridge as David and many have suggested.
Please look at the map in McKenzies post via the link where you can see the bridge by Whitehall Road.
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Post by Craig on Oct 2, 2008 17:47:25 GMT 1
Perhaps we should draw a close now to this perpetual confusion?!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 2, 2008 22:59:56 GMT 1
It's not resolved yet David. The NatEx train definitely heads in the direction of Bradford. I think it's the one that arrived in Leeds from KX at 17:36 (perhapd ahead of time) because there is also a NatEx train still alongside the platform as the TPX leaves. So where is it going and why? Now this "bridge" thing baffles me. The two trains may run alongside each other for a time, but how would a London bound train cross the path of one going to Manchester without the latter waiting at a signal? We could do with someone working at Leeds to tell us I think. Does anyone know such a person? The line to Bradford and the line to Wakefield is the same line, they don't split off until a location that you can't see from a train going to Huddersfield Take a look on Google Earth or Live Maps
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Post by guyarab on Oct 3, 2008 9:11:43 GMT 1
Oh yes you can see the split when travelling towards Huddersfield; the line to Bradford rises slightly! i know I watched the train the other evening.
I have also had a look at Google Earth and I cannot see a bridge for a train to cross over the Huddersfield path for a Wakefield bound train.
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Davidc
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Post by Davidc on Oct 3, 2008 10:01:47 GMT 1
Thought I would quote this post that was posted at the start of the thread as the link shows you the bridge where the Wakefield line crosses the Huddersfield line. I am starting to get a little peed off with this bridge thing as it’s a bit obvious now especially as its been explained so many times. As for the Bradford line, there are of course two lines to Bradford. So I guess some people have been thinking of the wrong one. There’s the line to Bradford Interchange and the line towards Skipton that also links to Bradford Forster Square. I think the only way of us resolving the issue would be for all of us to be on the train with you to see what you’re seeing and then explaining it as we pass through the area. David.c
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Post by guyarab on Oct 3, 2008 13:17:57 GMT 1
Sorry that you are getting s little irritated by my questioning the answers David, but your latest remarks have solved it for me. The bridge I couldn't see was further west of Leeds station than I was thinking of and now that I have seen it I know the train to be the 17:40 to London. The one remaining at the platform will be the 17:36 arrival from London.
This topic can now be closed - problem solved and I will be able to sleep tonight. Thanks guys.
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Post by jackh on Oct 3, 2008 13:41:25 GMT 1
And so can we
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