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Post by jackh on Sept 13, 2008 14:14:44 GMT 1
Another thread already used on our sister forum, so thought I would give it a shot on here!
Do you think West Yorkshire deserves a network of 24 hour bus services in Leeds particular.
We already have Nightrider 921 and 928 to Otley and Garforth, the 95 runs until about 4am every night and the 56 runs until about 3am on Friday and Saturday Nights between Leeds and Eden Drive.
Furthermore, there are some more night time buses around Christmas but patronage seems to be low.
Other large and smaller cities seem to have an extensive nightbus network which seem to be successful. In Manchester and Merseyside, most core routes have a frequent night bus on Friday/Saturday nights. In the North East, Go North East have a growing night network which looks to be proving successful.
Maybe if Leeds City Council, Metro, Safer Leeds and West Yorkshire Police team up with First and is well marketed. It could do reasonably well.
What are your thoughts?
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A1YBG
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Post by A1YBG on Sept 13, 2008 15:17:25 GMT 1
We have had 24 Hr services before on 2/12 or 3/13 (I think it was) It was withdrawn due to low usage. This was a few yrs back.
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Post by northerner on Sept 13, 2008 17:57:11 GMT 1
Maybe if the night routes only operated on a Friday and Saturday night to begin with on core routes, such as the 72 Leeds to Bradford and 110 Leeds - Wakefield, as these seem busy routes at all times of day.
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Post by nick on Sept 13, 2008 18:08:01 GMT 1
1 Could run,
X84 limited service could run possibly to Ilkley
96 possibly but then again, 1 could continue on a night to do circular round Cookridge/Tinshill before returning back to Holt Park and onto normal route.
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Post by jackh on Sept 13, 2008 20:29:48 GMT 1
Doesn't the 921 serve Holt Park and Cookridge areas (or 928)? Anyway, there is already the 95 on the Headingley routes running on a night so is there need for more buses along there. I guess you only listed the above routes as they serve your neck of the woods, right?
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Post by Craig on Sept 13, 2008 21:13:07 GMT 1
Indeed the 2/12 were trialled as a 24-hour operation several years ago but First only held out for a few months before branding it a failure. I'm confident that with persistence and inevitable prime funding by Metro, 24-hour bus routes in Leeds would work on the busier routes (and not just to cater for late night revellers, a lot of people work night shifts).
Obviously one idea of the Christmas late night routes is to test the water at potentially one of the busiest times for such a service, and based on Metro's figures this wasn't a complete failure but it does needs to be pushed.
However it's not long since another of the NightRider routes was withdrawn, so it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon unless Metro completely accept the revenue risk as one of First's biggest problems is that they rarely take a commercial risk without some kind of initial subsidy.
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Post by Craig on Sept 13, 2008 22:07:43 GMT 1
To clarify the current picture of night bus services in Leeds:
56 between Leeds Albion Street and Eden Drive every 20 mins until 3am on Thu, Fri and Sat late nights
95 between Leeds Rail Station and Lawnswood/Bodington Hall every 30 mins until 3-4am Monday to Saturday late nights, plus additional Fri/Sat journeys
921 via York Road, Halton, Whitkirk, Garforth, Kippax, Swillington then return back to Leeds - Fri and Sat late nights 3 journeys
928 to Otley via Headingley, Otley Old Road, Holt Park, Bramhope and Pool - Fri and Sat late nights 2 journeys
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SF07
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Post by SF07 on Sept 13, 2008 22:18:23 GMT 1
First did operate some night services on normal routes in the build-up to Christmas last year, on Friday and Saturday nights before Christmas plus Christmas/New Year's Eve, on services 2 to Roundhay Park, 12 to Middleton, 16 to Bramley and 51 to Morley.
You would have thought a city like Leeds would have more night buses in service. The Manchester night bus services are quite popular and has been recently enhanced with more journeys.
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Sept 13, 2008 23:04:46 GMT 1
if you ask me the likes of seacroft, whinmoor, crossgates etc needs a night bus
operate the 50 route to seacroft extending it to whinmoor(the way the 4goes) then 56 down fromt here through to leeds both terminating at the same place. almost as a loop bus.
if that makes sense?
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Post by mattyr88 on Sept 14, 2008 0:47:20 GMT 1
the 96 could become a success if it hit the right areas. an alternative route perhaps. leeds - headingly-cookridge - tinshill - horsforth and trinity all saints. prolly would need to number the service 96c or something.
a reason for night services being unsuccessfull could be the fact you cant use "dayriders" or even weekriders (apart from 95 and 56 weekriders). possibly lack of advertising is a reason for failure becouse im totally unware that 2/ 12 route had a 24 hour service. if it was well advertised then i would have known.
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Post by nick on Sept 14, 2008 12:52:41 GMT 1
There are alot of potential for alot of areas to get night buses or 24 Hour service's. Leeds-Bradford as mentioned as well as Leeds-Wakefield could possibly work.
As for night riders of Leeds currently i think they are crap to be honest. As far as my list goes well i think jack you were been right when i was on about my neck of the woods but if you think about it, that is where most of the students live along. The 928 as it is, could easily be replaced by what i suggested as a Limited Service X84 to Ilkley. Again this could run 3-6 journeys throughout the night (Something the crappy 928 doesn't with only 2). The 95 could possibly be extended to incorporate Cookridge/Tinshill and as Matty pointed out Trinity & All saints. Holt park is limited at Night with only 2 or the 3 journeys provided by the 928.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Sept 14, 2008 13:39:46 GMT 1
The 12 and 13 should never become a night service from Leeds to Middleton and Hell Isle. Think of all the village idiots who get plastered and start fights round there!
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Sept 14, 2008 14:01:33 GMT 1
The 12 and 13 should never become a night service from Leeds to Middleton and Hell Isle. Think of all the village idiots who get plastered and start fights round there! that is extremely harsh! i know its opinionated but c'mon lets be fair isn't the same in most areas nowadays? especially in Leeds city centre! it could happen anywhere at anytime |
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T101VWU
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Post by T101VWU on Sept 14, 2008 16:04:26 GMT 1
i remember the number 1 used to go round tinshill/cookridge on a night lol played havoc wi the bendys suspension!
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Post by Craig on Sept 14, 2008 17:03:42 GMT 1
i remember the number 1 used to go round tinshill/cookridge on a night lol played havoc wi the bendys suspension! I was going to ask about that - the 1C as it was known extended to Tinshill/Cookridge to maintain the 15-minute frequency to these areas with the 93C/96C as they were then known. My question is, was the 1/1C cut back to Holt Park because the 15-min frequency was no longer funded/necessary, or is it because the bendis couldn't get around the area? |
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Post by mattyr88 on Sept 17, 2008 14:02:55 GMT 1
i remember the number 1 used to go round tinshill/cookridge on a night lol played havoc wi the bendys suspension! thats probably why they are all knackered now! |
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A1YBG
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Post by A1YBG on Sept 17, 2008 15:17:00 GMT 1
They did have some trouble getting around the narrow roads with cars parked on corners. It was not easy to get round especially near Tinshill Club. Also took too long to wait for the bus to get back to Holt Park. Some passengers didn't like when they ran for it and driver told them to get off and wiat til he got back! Some went to The High Farm pub behind Asda for a quick pint and back!
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Post by nick on Sept 17, 2008 15:50:59 GMT 1
I personally think that if they were to bring back the night version of 1 the easiest option would to be run it with those New B9TL'S for the 2/12 combo (they wont be doing anything at night anyway), and use the route as suggested although how would you get from Cookridge to Tinshill then to Horsforth/Trinity & All Saints. (Turn left when coming down tinshill road onto tinshill lane by the pub and run it up to Wood knock drive).
Also what other areas would you suggest that could do with a night link. Again i suggested running a Limited Service to Otley/Ilkley via the present X84 route. Would it be viable to run a bus via Menston/Yeahdon etc round that way again to otley oh is that why the 927 (was it that) got withdrawn.
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Post by jml8371 on Sept 17, 2008 16:29:40 GMT 1
A couple of questions answered here for you.
You CAN use any First issued ticket on the 56 & 95 services.
You CANNOT use any Metro ticket after midnight.
921 & 928 are CASH ONLY. £2.50 flat fare.
The 927 service was withdrawn due to very low patronage.
Some nights we ran with no passengers on at all!
There are currently discussions taking place to increase the 95 service to run every 20 mins.
If it happens, it won't be until the December changes window.
The idea of running the 96 service, but extending it to TASC is a non-starter.
Where would you like us to turn the bus as there is no-where for us to turn around!!
We would have to go through to at least Rawdon and form a massive circle in that area just to turn it or probably go through to Yeadon.
Jason
JML8371
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 17, 2008 17:18:12 GMT 1
Instead of running a nightrider network, which is unlikely, extending the operation of normal services one hour later would be better in my opinion
Last buses are usually 11pm, but are often earlier than that if it fits better into the timetable. Running until Midnight would pick up most pubbers, leaving only clubbers to use taxis
Extending the daytime frequency to end at 7pm instead of 6pm would be good for similar reasons
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Post by Craig on Sept 17, 2008 18:33:24 GMT 1
Extending the daytime frequency to end at 7pm instead of 6pm would be good for similar reasons To expand on this idea, I have for a while thought that the 6pm to 8 or 9pm service should be improved to every 20 mins on main Overground routes (as is the case on Sunday daytimes on certain routes). Some routes are frequent until, say, 6pm and then drop suddenly to a 30-min headway resulting sometimes in long queues at stop and packed out buses at 7 or 8pm which shouldn't be happening! Similarly some non-core routes could benefit from extended hours or extra buses. |
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Post by Craig on Sept 17, 2008 18:44:35 GMT 1
921 & 928 are CASH ONLY. £2.50 flat fare. The 927 service was withdrawn due to very low patronage. Some nights we ran with no passengers on at all! There are currently discussions taking place to increase the 95 service to run every 20 mins. If it happens, it won't be until the December changes window. And therein lies one of the problems with the remaining Nightrider routes - no free travel or even a discount with a prepaid ticket, and £2.50 is good value for 1 or arguably 2 passengers but a group of 3 or 4 people could pay the same or just a bit more for a taxi. Perhaps a discount for prepaid tickets and/or group travel may be persuasion enough on top of not having to queue for hours in the cold for a cab! I used the 927 a few times and it was always reasonably well used, I never realised it could also be so loss making! The 95 is already every 15 mins (including the 928) at the weekend so I wonder if this will remain the same. I did wonder whether the 95 could extend beyond 3am or even operate on Sundays which can be busy nights in the pubs and clubs. |
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Post by nick on Sept 18, 2008 17:08:33 GMT 1
To expand upon what westyorkshire buses said, i would say that this could possibly be the way to start the night bus network. Then what could happen (Thursday/
Friday and Saturday are the main night out in Leeds so this would only happen then) is they run there normal Half Hour service to lets say Midnight instead of Eleven.
After that the non core routes (28/98-99/68-68A etc) stop and those important ones then run into the night till about 4. So the 95 still runs every what ever it does normally (like lets say every 15 minutes for sakes sake),
A Circular 1 so runs normal route to Holt Park then runs via 96 Route right round Cookridge/Tinshill then back to Holt Park runs limited service
X84 limited service to 0400 (lets say 2-4 journeys between 0000-0400),
2/12/3/13 combination run limited service from Leeds in both directions instead of a direct through service,
A new compromise of the 33A/97 ie runs 97 to Queensway and 33A onto Otley) runs a limited service
A new compromise of the 35/47/45 route so for example runs 35 to Allwoodley then across to Wigton Moor and onto Shadwell
X98 runs limited service and stop to Wetherby
A new compromise service to serve East Leeds
A New compromise service to serve West Leeds, again this could run into Bradford and be served from both ends and run via Stannigley, Pudsey Town Centre and onto Bradford.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 18, 2008 17:44:34 GMT 1
A problem there is that if completely different routes run at night then it becomes too complicated and the general public just doesn't bother finding out about the routes
Knowing that a 16 runs hourly until 4am is easy to understand, but having say a N6 running as a combination of 3 different routes for 4 hours only would get ignored by most
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Post by jml8371 on Sept 19, 2008 17:17:54 GMT 1
921 & 928 are CASH ONLY. £2.50 flat fare. The 927 service was withdrawn due to very low patronage. Some nights we ran with no passengers on at all! There are currently discussions taking place to increase the 95 service to run every 20 mins. If it happens, it won't be until the December changes window. And therein lies one of the problems with the remaining Nightrider routes - no free travel or even a discount with a prepaid ticket, and £2.50 is good value for 1 or arguably 2 passengers but a group of 3 or 4 people could pay the same or just a bit more for a taxi. Perhaps a discount for prepaid tickets and/or group travel may be persuasion enough on top of not having to queue for hours in the cold for a cab! I used the 927 a few times and it was always reasonably well used, I never realised it could also be so loss making! The 95 is already every 15 mins (including the 928) at the weekend so I wonder if this will remain the same. I did wonder whether the 95 could extend beyond 3am or even operate on Sundays which can be busy nights in the pubs and clubs. Well if the 95 is every 15 mins, someone forgot to tell the people who drive them, (like me) that they are!!! Jason JML8371 |
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