Early Running

[northerner]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced this on a regular basis, as my local bus operator seems particularly bad for this. The timetables are scheduled really slow and my route is timed almost at walking pace! The problem with this is some drivers continue, without waiting for time and the bus - an hourly service - can go up to 3 minutes early.

Do operators deliberately time their services at painfully slow speeds to avoid being fined by the traffic commissioner for late running?

[Craig]

It's more a point of trying to operate as close to a "reliable" timetable as possible, more than avoiding fines, though of course that is also motivation. Sometimes a "slack" timetable may be used, which results in annoyed passengers who are sat idling in bus lay-bys or drivers, as you say, continuing ahead regardless, which can just as easily attract fines for departures of more than 1 minute early!

Incidentally, the registration of a "frequent service" can help avoid having short spells of waiting time or early/late running, as the operator is only obliged to provide 6 buses in any one hour period at gaps of no more than 15 minutes - far easier to achieve than one bus every 10 minutes at a fixed time.

[northerner]

So can the Traffic Commissioner check the running of buses from timing points at any time? If so, I wish they would check my route as the bus operator would be fined for early running. I have contacted them before regarding this issue but their reply seemed to pass the buck to Metro and point out that the majority of their services are operated commercially, completely missing my point!

If this is the attitude of a supposedly high- quality operator, I am not surprised bus usage is continuing to fall.

[Craig]

VOSA certainly can and do monitor bus services, and writing to them might not guarantee they monitor your local service but it can't harm to try!

[jackh]

Yes VOSA can do this, I believe they are able to access the ACIS GPS network so can pinpoint buses to their exact location.

[northerner]

It is a shame that the operators don't use the GPS information to prevent early running, which is a common occurance on my route. Surely it is easy enough for the inspectors / service controllers to make contact with drivers running early to make them wait at the nearest stop to bring them back on time?

[SF07]

Which operator was it?

Would be interesting if it was First because they have run the "Eliminating Early Running Campaign" in the past, which promoted to drivers to not run more than one minute early on its route, which does explain why some drivers in the past on the 184 to Huddersfield had to wait at Marsden for upto 8 minutes at times before leaving Marsden on time.

[jackh]

Or Diggle for that matter towards Oldham/Manchester. They go a bit to fast over Standedge!

[A1YBG]

281 sometimes have a very long waiting time at Dewsbury Bus Stn. Been on a few where bus has come in. We all run to get on is as its due to go out within next couple mins and stood around for 10 mins and at same time another 281 comes in changes driver and goes out half empty while we are all crowded on this bus!!!!

[SF07]

Sept 8, 2008 21:10:45 GMT 1 @jackh said:

Or Diggle for that matter towards Oldham/Manchester. They go a bit to fast over Standedge!

Well, quite a few places towards Oldham - Diggle, Uppermill, Grotton, Oldham Mumps. One driver waits at Marsden so they don't hang around at Diggle/Uppermill.

[Craig]

Certain 281 buses are scheduled to wait for 8 or so minutes at Dewsbury if you look at the timetable. It's caused by combining the Thornhill section which has a 10-min frequency (combined with 283) and the northern section which is every 15 mins.

[northerner]

The operator is Transdev Keighley & District and they don't seem too interested in early running, in fact I would say they encourage it as many timetables have a ridiculous amount of slack built into them, so a bus can be say 10 minutes late at Bingley, but still arrive on time at Keighley.

[nick]

This is because of the nature of its journeys. Imagine the 760. If it had 5 minutes standing time at Keighley for example the driver would be stressed out and if he ran over the 5 minutes somewhere like Stuck Down Leeds road, the whole rest of the operations for that day are pretty much buggered.

[jackh]

Leeds Road where Nick? Because one bus route is suffering problems, the whole operation won't be suffering.

Keighley & District always put another bus on at Keighley and take the late bus back to depot when it arrives. Plus, drivers usually get reliefed at Keighley anyway so lack of standing time won't stress them out.

[northerner]

I understand your point Nick, but there is still no need to run early, which is what some timetables encourage. As an example, last year the 662 had an extra bus added on Saturdays, increasing running time by around 5 minutes in each direction, meaning buses are often waiting for time for up to 8 minutes on a 50 minute journey.

[nick]

Thackley Jack, leeds road into shipley.

[westyorkshirebus]

Sept 9, 2008 19:14:44 GMT 1 northerner said:

I understand your point Nick, but there is still no need to run early, which is what some timetables encourage. As an example, last year the 662 had an extra bus added on Saturdays, increasing running time by around 5 minutes in each direction, meaning buses are often waiting for time for up to 8 minutes on a 50 minute journey.

Isn't the 662 advertised as a frequent service with no actual timings on public view?

[northerner]

No, the 662 does have stop specific times, as well as Keighley Bus Station and Bradford Interchange stating specific times on the next departure screens.