New Bus company coming to Leeds?

[rossbailey]

Hi

I heard a rumour today that a new independent bus company is to be set up in Leeds later this year called Challenger.

By all accounts there looking for a depot that can accommodate up to 100 buses and will go head to head on some of First in Leeds busier routes.

Has anyone else heard anything about this???

[jackh]

Challenger? I believe National Car Parks (NCP) use this trading name for their London bus business which operates routes to the West of the capital. So could have something to do with them.

The most lucrative routes would be the Red and Blue Line group, I hear drivers usually cash in £1,000 after their shifts on those routes. Plus don't forget the Headingley routes and York Road maybe.

A possible site maybe is the old Wallace Arnold depot down at Wortley by the Ring Road/Geldard Road junction. But the site is getting cleared as we speak.

[transportem]

Although I don't know Leeds that well, in the current operating climate, launching a small (commercial) competative service comes with a huge element of risk - and a large one even more so. Problems with concessionary re-imbursment and high fuel prices make any large commercial challenge to First very unlikely.

This is the same accross the country!

[jackh]

Well for now, we will strictly take this news as a rumour until anything is mentioned on VOSA of a company registration.

[nick]

Well, could this be the Lothian of Leeds?

[jackh]

Where did you get the idea that Lothian Buses having something to do with this rumour?

First and Lothian Buses haven't been competing with each other in Edinburgh for a while now as First didn't succeed. If Lothian were to have a stab at First, try doing it on their doorstep in Aberdeen!

[nick]

I wasn’t saying Lothian buses was coming to leeds, what i wanted to get across is the fact that the new bus company could be similar model to Lothian of Edinburgh .

I have already though about possible routes, and this new bus company could not just go with competition with First, but possibly Arriva doing some routes or similar.

[Craig]

I would be interested to know where this rumour originated. A new operator I could understand, but launching immediately with 100 vehicles doesn't sound like good business sense. In 1988, maybe, but surely not in the wiser industry we have in 2008.

And while I would wish any new Leeds operator all the best, I do have a few words of caution. AJC/Ambermile, Amberley Travel, Aztecbird/Pegasus, Bigfoot Buses, Miramare, Optional Bus, Pride of the Road, Quickstep Travel, Rhodes Coaches...

[nick]

Well if they did come to leeds (and I say if very cautiously), what fleet would they be operating, which routes and mainly where would there centre of operations be operated around (Black Prince Morley, First Leeds In the City Centre that type of thing).

Would fares be competitive like First with a £1.50 Adult Single to leeds, this new company £1.30 etc or would they match. Would they be able to come up with tickets such as the Day Rider, Green Zone (they could call it Red Zone or something), First Weekly Ticket etc?

And the final question is, would they compete not just with First Leeds but with others, First Bradford, Arriva, Transdev.

Maybe getting into the dream world hear, but could Transdev be setting up operations in leeds?

[jabbott1987]

Pride of the Road was in Birkby not Leeds.

[Craig]

Pride of the Road operated some local Leeds services, to Middleton that I can remember and maybe some others.

Nick, let's not get too carried away just yet...

[6u3zr]

Pride of the Road very - VERY - briefly operated on 2/12 - 3/13 corridors in 2000 and abandoned the exercise quickly, earning them a censure from VOSA in the process.

Frankly, I think this thread ought to be consigned to the "Fantasy bus routes" section.

Leeds is'nt great bus territority if you're a commercial operator, as those who have gone before and failed will testify. First have sewn up the less affluent (ie lucrative, non-car owning) areas with saturation frequencies.

If you're talking 100 motors (and where's the license?) you'd be talking a VOSA enquiry before you even started.

Someone, I think, is attempting to impose fantasy upon reality....

[jimbob90]

Must have been a short spell as I live on the 12/13 route and don't really remember Pride of The Road!

[6u3zr]

Yes it was - without checking in more detail it was roughly July-September 2000.

It may well have been POR in a different incarnation - it certainly involved their perrenial DAF/Ikarus motors which featured in more or less every POR/K-Line attempt at a commercial service during that time.

Another operator for whom a Stetson and Horse might be an appropriate logo...

[m60800]

POTR.....Found this on the net, remember these Nationals!

gallery41664.fotopic.net/p7341990.html

[Craig]

Pride of the Road in Leeds was much earlier than 2000, as demonstrated by the above photo link. It was sometime in the early 90's.

Taylor's operated to Middleton for many years, followed briefly by Arriva running the route after the takeover.

[jimbob90]

I remember the 20 route by Arriva, usually a Leyland Lynx or a Plaxton mini-Pointer.

[Craig]

It was the 20/21 route which interworked with the 52B - but most of the time it was a DAF ALX300 allocation...

Anyway, we are straying a little from the original topic, so to try and bring it back can I reiterate my question - can the source of this rumour be made known?

[jimbob90]

Sorry forgot about the ALX300s on the 20/21.

[pub146g]

Aug 19, 2008 22:07:12 GMT 1 Craig said:

It was the 20/21 route which interworked with the 52B - but most of the time it was a DAF ALX300 allocation...

Anyway, we are straying a little from the original topic, so to try and bring it back can I reiterate my question - can the source of this rumour be made known?

I'm not sure where this rumour originated but it's certainly 'doing the rounds' within First Leeds depots. My knowledge so far is as follows, and I don't mind in the slightest if you don't believe a word because I'm bordering on being a non-believer myself, at least until any evidence comes to light.

The Challenger Leeds operation would be run by a brother of one of the Directors of the London op and would be based (wait for it) at the old First Kirkstall Rd depot which NCP reckon to have some involvement with already.

One Leeds union official even says he knows the new Company would be offering drivers an hourly rate of £9.72 which I doubt a new Company could afford unless it was being cross subsidised from the broader empire.

If I hear anything else I'll post it but at the moment all the above is, as far as I'm concerned just rumour, although it is an elaborate one, so could have some foundation.

[nick]

Could they possibly be eyeing up the Old Black Prince depot?

[jackh]

Well as Ross said, they are looking for a site suitable to house 100 buses, the Black Prince site is simply too small.

[jimbob90]

I think there are plans to build property on the old Black Prince site.

[Craig]

The Black Prince site was a little too awkward for BP's use, and besides the last I heard the land is to be developed as a supermarket and/or other functions.

[westyorkshirebus]

This sounds to me like a rumour started by one driver joking that another bus company may want to use the now empty Kirkstall Road depot and then it becoming a rumour and some people wanting it to be a fact

Let's just say I'll eat my hat if any other company of any description, new or old, independant or a major group, competes with First in Leeds with more than 10 buses (That excludes Geldards 1 or 2 bus operations that they keep starting and stopping)