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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jul 24, 2008 16:42:14 GMT 1
It seems that the good weather, free pensioner travel and the school holidays now underway have all taken their toll on Coast services. Yorkshire Coastliner staff and management have conceeded (off the record) that they are badly resourced! I took the 7.30 bus from Leeds to Scarborough, it was standing room only from Malton and drop off only from a good few miles outside of Scarborough. I tried to get on the 17.15 from Scarborough with some family members who had 2 young children in prams. Impossible! A bus came later on at 1745, however that was only going as far as Malton and nobody dared risk changing in Malton in case there was no room on that bus. Finally we managed to get on the 18.15 however several passengers had to be left behind. It would be better for Yorkshire Coastliner to team up with another bus firm that they could call on for extra resources when needed. I have been promised that next year the timetable will be revised with extra services put on. They should make the whole route to Scarborough at least every 20 mins with the Whitby and Bridlington service every hour in between the Scarborough departures. Trains are not an option when it costs an arm and a leg for a return.
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Post by jackh on Jul 24, 2008 16:59:44 GMT 1
I did hear that as well in the Coastliner office at Leeds Bus Station today. The member of staff was saying to a passenger that services seem to be getting full standing loads between Leeds and York.
I don't think a 20 minute frequency between Leeds and Scarborough could be feasible. Every 30 minutes tops for now but that requires an extra seven buses to bump the frequency up to that. An alternative could be to introduce limited stop X43 that would by-pass York offering a quicker journey time etc.
Furthermore, it does look more and more likely that Coastliner will be moving operations from Malton to the current Top Line depot in Fulford, York. That should hopefully mean that more resources are readily available, of which is possible as the soon to be acquired Veolia York operations have lost some school contracts to Pullman and York City Council are looking to pull the plug on the City Circular routes which will free up staff.
On a last note, Coastliner do usually duplicate some journies on the timetable to cope with increased demand on services during the holidays. A Keighley & District Plaxton President is borrrowed to do this as has been the case for the past couple of years. Have any buses been sent to Malton to assist so far?
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Post by nick on Jul 24, 2008 17:10:10 GMT 1
Jack i think your suggestion for a X43 would have to be provided at peak times.
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Post by jackh on Jul 24, 2008 17:17:35 GMT 1
Well, ok I will be more specific on the X43 plan. They leave Leeds at 09.35 and 10.05, run along the normal Coastliner route until Copmanthorpe of which it would via the York By-pass and then back to normal 843 route from Stockton Lane End at the other side of York.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 24, 2008 17:36:25 GMT 1
In my opinion the Coastliner service should be
843 Leeds to Scarborough - Hourly (as present) 840 Leeds to Whitby - Hourly (currently one bus every 2 hours only goes as far as Thornton Dale, would need 1 extra bus) 843 Leeds to Malton - New service hourly
Meaning an every 20 mins frequency Leeds to Malton via York. More service 845 journeys would be provided to Bridlington than currently working as an extension to those 843 Malton journeys
I doubt an express service would work. If you want to get there fast you use the train plus it would mess up frequencies as the fast bus would catch up with the slow bus
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Post by jackh on Jul 24, 2008 18:03:21 GMT 1
Well it does look like the problem lies with the Leeds to York section. So maybe a new half hourly Yorkshirexpress branded route is in order. Of which would compliment the existing Coastliner services.
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Jul 24, 2008 19:34:48 GMT 1
The easiest option would be to pull the plug on free travel for twerlies,charge em a fiver,problem solved as the tight fisted old dears dont like paying!
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Post by Craig on Jul 24, 2008 19:59:35 GMT 1
But that just won't happen. Free travel for the over 60s is now compulsory. And many pass holders aren't exactly "tight fisted" - should they forgo their free pass and pay fares instead?
I'm not too familiar with the Coastliner services (never used them!) but I presume most of the year (i.e. not Summer) Leeds to York is the more popular journey? So should this be where extra resources get deployed? How about every 15 mins Leeds to York (competing with the train a la H & D 36) and then half-hourly beyond as present, with extra summertime trips where necessary?
I guess the other problem is one Saturday in August might be the wettest on record, and the following Saturday the warmest. Hence it is quite a hard balance meeting supply and demand on this type of service for day trippers etc.
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Post by nick on Jul 24, 2008 20:27:36 GMT 1
Leeds23 I agree, but I think that the extra two services (30 and 00) should be none stop to Seacroft and then limited stop all the way upto Malton.
Someone said that YC might be moving depot to somewhere in york to give more resources with extra space. Well if this is true maybe they could introduce a Half Hourly Limited Stop service between in Summer then in winter have it every hour.
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Jul 24, 2008 20:31:02 GMT 1
I think there should be a limit as to how far they can travel,after all,who pays for them,the money the government pays for each pensioner to the bus companies does not cover the full cost of travel,just one more reason why the fares have just gone up!
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Post by jackh on Jul 24, 2008 20:36:48 GMT 1
Leeds23 I agree, but I think that the extra two services (30 and 00) should be none stop to Seacroft and then limited stop all the way upto Malton. Someone said that YC might be moving depot to somewhere in york to give more resources with extra space. Well if this is true maybe they could introduce a Half Hourly Limited Stop service between in Summer then in winter have it every hour. When did we suggest that we had this extra half hourly would as far as Malton. It would make a loss beyond York as there isn't anything between York and Malton along the A64 in terms of reasonably populated settlements. In terms of stopping arrangements, it should only pick up along York Road to Seacroft Green and then normal stopping to Tadcaster Union Corner, carry along Leeds Road in Tadcaster avoiding Woodlands estate towards the Bus Station, follow the Coastliner route to York Ring Road at Copmanthorpe, avoid Copmanthorpe by leaving the York By-pass at Dringhouses/Askham Bar then along Tadcaster Road into York and terminate at Piccadilly/Coppergate Centre.
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Post by mattyr88 on Jul 24, 2008 20:43:26 GMT 1
They should team up with first leeds, first leeds run lesss services in the summer with the 95 and 92 not being run during the day, them staff and resources could help the coastliner!
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Post by jackh on Jul 24, 2008 20:51:45 GMT 1
Operators don't tend to work together on routes anymore. Furthermore, afterall, First would end up competing against themselves with them providing three trains an hour each way between Leeds and York.
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Post by Craig on Jul 24, 2008 20:58:24 GMT 1
What is the fixation with Malton requiring such a frequent service? I understand it is Coastliner's base but surely we don't have to run a bus every 15 minutes up there!
Does the Coastliner pick up all stops on York Road up to Seacroft? I'd never really thought about it, but I would have thought running non-stop would be better (as the 770 already exists along that route).
Am I right in thinking that there isn't much difference between the Summer and Winter timetables, i.e. both are essentially a half-hourly core service but with variations to the coast destinations? An enhanced Leeds to York service would only make sense all year round as this wouldn't be particularly seasonal in demand.
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Post by mattyr88 on Jul 24, 2008 22:25:05 GMT 1
another company could come in with a leeds to york route which would also be competition, arriva first comes to mind,
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Post by jackh on Jul 25, 2008 9:47:45 GMT 1
another company could come in with a leeds to york route which would also be competition, arriva first comes to mind, Hmm, Arriva probably wouldn't hedge their bets by taking on Transdev who provide a better service at a reasonable price so would make difficult competition. I suppose this competitive route in mind would be operated from Selby depot which make sense geographically. After all, they would only really be taking pass holders off one another, as we all know too bloody well bus companies only get 60% of money they are entitled to as they would get from fare paying passenger. So somebody would end up making a loss! Overall, Transdev are capable of doing this extra half hourly service between Leeds and York, it doesn't necessarily have to be branded as Coastliner. The "Yorkshirexpress" brand seems fair enough and could be operated from the Fulford depot. Obviously, tickets can be used on both services.
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Post by jackh on Jul 25, 2008 9:56:29 GMT 1
Oh Craig, your answer to the question if difference in the timetables. It is just the provision of the limited stop journies to the cost that don't operate in the Winter and the Castle Howard shuttle bus from Malton which is Summer only.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jul 25, 2008 11:23:33 GMT 1
Many people use Coastliner services as a substitute to a rather expensive train journey. I for one will not pay nearly £20 for a return to Scarborough, other family members on poorer wages/budgets will say the same. Times are getting harder financially for everyone so lower priced bus services to the coast will be used more. The train may be fast, however the money saved on the bus buys a boat load of extra things making a day out more enjoyable. The overcrowding problems I experienced on Wednesday centred on people going to the Coast, although I can see that later journeys would be full with people going to York. The whole route does need extra resources planned in advance using advanced weather forecasting. If the weather is set to be good for the week, the Coastliner will be very busy. On a final note, Malton is a big town (if you incliude Norton) surrounded by quite sizeable villages, and all people living in this area tend to go to York for shopping and work. A half hourly service is needed die to the size of the population.
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Post by Craig on Jul 25, 2008 18:03:33 GMT 1
A quick check has revealed that on the Leeds to Scarborough journey, the train costs £20 return while Coastliner is £11 - a big saving, but Coastliner does take over twice as long (2h 55m compared to 1h 20m on the train, approx.). Personally I would choose the train, but I can quite understand a family taking advantage of the cheaper option.
Perhaps Coastliner's main strength for day trippers however is the service provision to Whitby and Bridlington, two other very popular destinations, which can not be (easily) accessed by rail from Leeds. And returns to these places only costs £12.
The idea of advanced weather forecasting planning sounds good on paper, but weather can only be reasonably well predicted within a couple of weeks, and even then we all know how often "they get it wrong". In addition, it isn't fair on drivers to find out a week in advance how many hours they are allocated, particularly at a time when the drivers too will be wanting a holiday!
PS I completely agree that the present half-hourly service for Malton is fine - it was the idea of a quarter-hourly frequency that I was questioning!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 25, 2008 18:08:45 GMT 1
My reason for running every 20 mins to Malton would be that a) it would be more difficult to find somewhere to terminate in York and layover and b) if one journey terminated in York they would end up with a 20/40 frequency York to Malton which would not be ideal
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Post by jabbott1987 on Jul 25, 2008 18:24:25 GMT 1
How about making a service that goes straight from Leeds - Kirkby Misperton cause that will be another reason for them packed full.
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Post by jackh on Jul 25, 2008 20:26:17 GMT 1
I suppose the 840 that leaves York Rail Station at 1022 where passengers transfer from either the 0905 X40 or 0915 845 service from Leeds at York could be extended to come from Leeds. However, how practical this is I wouldn't know as I am unaware of how many people use the service to go to Flamingo Land and of which have come from beyond York.
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Post by mattyr88 on Jul 25, 2008 22:55:33 GMT 1
maybe train tickets should be reduced so more people use em instead of the coastliner, would get the sales up for First
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Jul 26, 2008 8:52:07 GMT 1
Overall, Transdev are capable of doing this extra half hourly service between Leeds and York, it doesn't necessarily have to be branded as Coastliner. The "Yorkshirexpress" brand seems fair enough and could be operated from the Fulford depot. Obviously, tickets can be used on both services. What Jack said, they dont even have to be branded (cant see coastliner branding them) leeds needs a decent bus connection with york(and just to york) unfortunately YCL done offer it at the moment. Malton Frequencies don't need increasing at all, i've worked in malton the odd week here and there and seen hardly anyone using the coastliners there or Stephenson's for the matter. Everything the people of malton need is practically on their doorstep! On another Note, Imagine what it'd be like if the B7RLEs were still here!
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Post by Burnside on Jul 26, 2008 10:02:02 GMT 1
maybe train tickets should be reduced so more people use em instead of the coastliner, would get the sales up for First Can get them for as little as £6 each way and even less (£3.95 if my maths is right) with a senior, family or young persons (now 16-25) railcard. What i don't get is why it can be 7 or 8 quid more from say Shipley or Guiseley than it is from Leeds.
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