BusNut
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Post by BusNut on Apr 22, 2024 10:53:20 GMT 1
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Post by deerfold on Apr 22, 2024 11:04:10 GMT 1
The timetables on stops have got much worse since they automated their production where a route isn't straightforward.
On my local timetables they say about Airedale Hospital "All services call" - however, all trips on the 66, 903 and M4 serve it, but only 1 trip a day in the evening (and 3 on Sundays) on the 62 (a half hourly service) do.
At Airedale Hospital the 903 has a list of times. All trips take the same route to Steeton, then 10 of them turn left to Silsden, 4 of them continue straight on to Keighley. You can't tell from the stop timetable which service does which. Between Silsden and Steeton all buses take the same route to Steeton, then 8 trips turn right to Airedale Hospital, 2 turn left to Keighley. Again, you can't tell from the stop timetable which service does which.
They've also stopped giving any indication of how long a journey will take. If you're travelling from Ripponden to Halifax a journey could take 28 minutes or it could take 61 minutes, depending which bus you take, but there's no indication which trips go on longer routes - for the longest it's almost always worth waiting for a quicker one.
I've told Metro about this, but it doesn't seem to help.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Apr 22, 2024 11:11:17 GMT 1
I'm not convinced that I agree. West Yorkshire has more realtime-fitted bus stops than almost anywhere else I can think of in the country. The bus shelters in my area all have bus maps for the local services, and a full timetable. The bus stops without a shelter have either a realtime flag, or a printed timetable.
The Travel South Yorkshire website looks like it's straight out of the 90s. It has a colour scheme that matches my idea of Sheffield: very bland. I can only access PDF timetables, when I'd rather just view a live webpage. On the final link you posted, it doesn't state which day of the week that timetable is for.
While some bus stops in West Yorks are missing timetables, (this is not a new thing), I think this may be a result of energy and budget being focused on funding services, also connected with people being more likely to view timetables online now.
I remember seeing a bus stop on Burnley Road near Todmorden in about 2017 that had a timetable from 2012 on it, so there have always been minor issues.
I've found Metro to be very easy to contact as a bus user, and I try to report any errors or issues I see to them. They have replied to, and rectified every single one within a couple of weeks.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Apr 22, 2024 11:21:03 GMT 1
The timetables on stops have got much worse since they automated their production where a route isn't straightforward. On my local timetables they say about Airedale Hospital "All services call" - however, all trips on the 66, 903 and M4 serve it, but only 1 trip a day in the evening (and 3 on Sundays) on the 62 (a half hourly service) do. At Airedale Hospital the 903 has a list of times. All trips take the same route to Steeton, then 10 of them turn left to Silsden, 4 of them continue straight on to Keighley. You can't tell from the stop timetable which service does which. Between Silsden and Steeton all buses take the same route to Steeton, then 8 trips turn right to Airedale Hospital, 2 turn left to Keighley. Again, you can't tell from the stop timetable which service does which. They've also stopped giving any indication of how long a journey will take. If you're travelling from Ripponden to Halifax a journey could take 28 minutes or it could take 61 minutes, depending which bus you take, but there's no indication which trips go on longer routes - for the longest it's almost always worth waiting for a quicker one. I've told Metro about this, but it doesn't seem to help. The destination guide has always been a bid dodgy, to be fair. The timetable at Rodley Harrisons Corner (my local stop), used to state that the 760 went to Kirkstall, but the 670 didn't, however it did go to Kirkstall fire station. I remember one batch of timetables, probably circa 2018 had route timings for each individual route, which I thought was brilliant, but it was dropped a few months later. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 22, 2024 11:44:24 GMT 1
They never properly came out of the COVID period. They used to be good before that, it was rare there wasn’t a timetable available (although some posters would always find the most minor of errors), every stop had a timetable, and every service had a timetable online and in paper Initially you could blame the fast moving timetable changes, but even now it’s settled down, they’ve not gone back to how they were, and everything has been cut back to the bare bones. Presumably due to funding issues they’ve got rid of most of their publicity teams and designers. The timetables that Nexus produce are quite well produced as well www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/bus/021-gne-070124.pdfBus stop displays are done in a similar style But on the negative side, all their travel shops were shut during COVID, and they didn’t produce paper timetables except for tendered routes even before then. They are also much further behind when it comes to cross operator ticketing, although have now got there with the BSIP funding All the Combined Authorities have pros and cons, for example in Manchester they’ve started only publicising service changes on their ‘bus alert’ page so it disappears after a few weeks with no record of it actually happening. Bosses from Metro, TSY, TfGM, Nexus (plus Merseytravel, SPT and West Midlands that I’m less familiar with) along with Nottingham City Council, Edinburgh council and the West of England Combined Authority should have a get together fact finding mission |
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Post by deerfold on Apr 22, 2024 11:52:53 GMT 1
I'm not convinced that I agree. West Yorkshire has more realtime-fitted bus stops than almost anywhere else I can think of in the country. The bus shelters in my area all have bus maps for the local services, and a full timetable. The bus stops without a shelter have either a realtime flag, or a printed timetable. The Travel South Yorkshire website looks like it's straight out of the 90s. It has a colour scheme that matches my idea of Sheffield: very bland. I can only access PDF timetables, when I'd rather just view a live webpage. On the final link you posted, it doesn't state which day of the week that timetable is for. While some bus stops in West Yorks are missing timetables, (this is not a new thing), I think this may be a result of energy and budget being focused on funding services, also connected with people being more likely to view timetables online now. I remember seeing a bus stop on Burnley Road near Todmorden in about 2017 that had a timetable from 2012 on it, so there have always been minor issues. I've found Metro to be very easy to contact as a bus user, and I try to report any errors or issues I see to them. They have replied to, and rectified every single one within a couple of weeks. Are you in Leeds? There seems to be quite a difference between Leeds and the other areas. For the services running past my house, they all have RealTime information at Keighley bus station and the stop after; the 903 and M4 also have it at Airedale Hospital. The 66 doesn't have any others, the 62 has it at Ilkley bus station and the second stop on the route. There's no maps at shelters. Many flags list destinations not served from that stop. None of our stops have realtime information on the flag. |
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 22, 2024 17:11:36 GMT 1
I'm not convinced that I agree. West Yorkshire has more realtime-fitted bus stops than almost anywhere else I can think of in the country. The bus shelters in my area all have bus maps for the local services, and a full timetable. The bus stops without a shelter have either a realtime flag, or a printed timetable. The Travel South Yorkshire website looks like it's straight out of the 90s. It has a colour scheme that matches my idea of Sheffield: very bland. I can only access PDF timetables, when I'd rather just view a live webpage. On the final link you posted, it doesn't state which day of the week that timetable is for. While some bus stops in West Yorks are missing timetables, (this is not a new thing), I think this may be a result of energy and budget being focused on funding services, also connected with people being more likely to view timetables online now. I remember seeing a bus stop on Burnley Road near Todmorden in about 2017 that had a timetable from 2012 on it, so there have always been minor issues. I've found Metro to be very easy to contact as a bus user, and I try to report any errors or issues I see to them. They have replied to, and rectified every single one within a couple of weeks. Are you in Leeds? There seems to be quite a difference between Leeds and the other areas. For the services running past my house, they all have RealTime information at Keighley bus station and the stop after; the 903 and M4 also have it at Airedale Hospital. The 66 doesn't have any others, the 62 has it at Ilkley bus station and the second stop on the route. There's no maps at shelters. Many flags list destinations not served from that stop. None of our stops have realtime information on the flag. I agree with the real-time displays. I have noticed more seem to be added to Calderdale as for the maps, they obviously are only around Leeds and the bus stop flags with real time displays are in the town centre but nowhere else in Calderdale. |
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Post by pjb on Apr 22, 2024 17:21:32 GMT 1
I agree Metros information is a shadow of its former self.
In Bradford the lack of reliable timetable posters, maps, the sheer lack of information about long planned bus changes and simple things like having bus numbers on shelters and flags so you can clearly see what services call where makes it very difficult to get about.
I prefer timetable pdfs and the ones that are online are often wrong with errors, I’ve written in the past and it’s very difficult to get things amended.
The lack of clear information about the Bradford Interchnage closure is another thing that has been so poor.
From having Metro in high regard in the 90s I feel they have lost their way now.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Apr 22, 2024 18:04:55 GMT 1
Accuracy of information regarding what buses serve what destinations on the new timetable displays is a laugh a minute. According to a timetable display in Middleton, only service 75 serves Beeston, services 2 and 118 don't despite both serving the Tommy Wass junction and service 2 serving the whole Dewsbury Road side of Beeston, work that one out. These things need human intervention now before some lonely woman thinks she has to walk in the dark down the Ring Road because the timetable destination info is false.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Apr 22, 2024 18:09:55 GMT 1
Accuracy of information regarding what buses serve what destinations on the new timetable displays is a laugh a minute. According to a timetable display in Middleton, only service 75 serves Beeston, services 2 and 118 don't despite both serving the Tommy Wass junction and service 2 serving the whole Dewsbury Road side of Beeston, work that one out. These things need human intervention now before some lonely woman thinks she has to walk in the dark down the Ring Road because the timetable destination info is false. Personally, what would work a lot better is to display destination info for large areas like Beeston into zones, e.g. Lower Dewsbury Road, Upper Dewsbury Road/Tommy Wass, Central Beeston (Beeston Road/Old Lane), West Beeston (Town Street/Wesley Street/Elland Road) and Beeston Hill itself. |
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Apr 22, 2024 18:41:55 GMT 1
I'm not convinced that I agree. West Yorkshire has more realtime-fitted bus stops than almost anywhere else I can think of in the country. The bus shelters in my area all have bus maps for the local services, and a full timetable. The bus stops without a shelter have either a realtime flag, or a printed timetable. The Travel South Yorkshire website looks like it's straight out of the 90s. It has a colour scheme that matches my idea of Sheffield: very bland. I can only access PDF timetables, when I'd rather just view a live webpage. On the final link you posted, it doesn't state which day of the week that timetable is for. While some bus stops in West Yorks are missing timetables, (this is not a new thing), I think this may be a result of energy and budget being focused on funding services, also connected with people being more likely to view timetables online now. I remember seeing a bus stop on Burnley Road near Todmorden in about 2017 that had a timetable from 2012 on it, so there have always been minor issues. I've found Metro to be very easy to contact as a bus user, and I try to report any errors or issues I see to them. They have replied to, and rectified every single one within a couple of weeks. Are you in Leeds? There seems to be quite a difference between Leeds and the other areas. For the services running past my house, they all have RealTime information at Keighley bus station and the stop after; the 903 and M4 also have it at Airedale Hospital. The 66 doesn't have any others, the 62 has it at Ilkley bus station and the second stop on the route. There's no maps at shelters. Many flags list destinations not served from that stop. None of our stops have realtime information on the flag. I am admittedly in Leeds, so lucky I guess, but even still on my travels to places like Hebden Bridge, Haworth, Holmfirth, even Oldfield I have had no issue finding printed timetables. |
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shelf81
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Post by shelf81 on Apr 22, 2024 18:45:26 GMT 1
Accuracy of information regarding what buses serve what destinations on the new timetable displays is a laugh a minute. According to a timetable display in Middleton, only service 75 serves Beeston, services 2 and 118 don't despite both serving the Tommy Wass junction and service 2 serving the whole Dewsbury Road side of Beeston, work that one out. These things need human intervention now before some lonely woman thinks she has to walk in the dark down the Ring Road because the timetable destination info is false. Won't they be meaning central Beeston on the display rather than Beeston Hill/Dewsbury Road or Tommy Wass? If your claiming 118 serves Beeston then you might as well include every bus that serves White Rose. |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Apr 22, 2024 18:53:27 GMT 1
Accuracy of information regarding what buses serve what destinations on the new timetable displays is a laugh a minute. According to a timetable display in Middleton, only service 75 serves Beeston, services 2 and 118 don't despite both serving the Tommy Wass junction and service 2 serving the whole Dewsbury Road side of Beeston, work that one out. These things need human intervention now before some lonely woman thinks she has to walk in the dark down the Ring Road because the timetable destination info is false. Won't they be meaning central Beeston on the display rather than Beeston Hill/Dewsbury Road or Tommy Wass? If your claiming 118 serves Beeston then you might as well include every bus that serves White Rose. That's just it though, the display on Middleton Park Avenue just states Beeston and really as I said in my edited comment WYCA need to split up areas like Beeston into sub areas. If they're going to generalise Beeston then they do need to include all services from Middleton Park Ave to Beeston, not just the 75 as the Tommy Wass junction as well as Upper Dewsbury Road are well within Beeston. As a side note, at the Tommy Wass stop Middleton bound it states the 75 serves Beeston, but in that direction it's leaving Beeston lol! The only last bit of Beeston it could possibly serve is Parkwood. |
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Post by martinsfp on Apr 22, 2024 18:57:17 GMT 1
Accuracy of information regarding what buses serve what destinations on the new timetable displays is a laugh a minute. According to a timetable display in Middleton, only service 75 serves Beeston, services 2 and 118 don't despite both serving the Tommy Wass junction and service 2 serving the whole Dewsbury Road side of Beeston, work that one out. These things need human intervention now before some lonely woman thinks she has to walk in the dark down the Ring Road because the timetable destination info is false. In that case it sounds accurate to me. As a human, I’d never consider Dewsbury Road to be Beeston even if it technically is. If I was catching a bus to Beeston and caught the 2 I’d wonder when we were getting to the centre of Beeston as it rolled down Dewsbury Road (an area that has always just been ‘Dewsbury Road’ in bus service info as far as I’ve seen). On a 118 I’d wonder why we’d stopped at the White Rose Centre without going near the centre of Beeston. But in general, I agree human review and human knowledge really helps. Service change summaries are terrible these days in many places around the country because they don’t take the time to explain things properly. “Timetable changes” could mean anything but a few years it would say something far more specific like ‘frequency reduced from every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes”. Until the Bee Network came in, TfGM’s website had a few years of showing every service change twice, with, say 8: Manchester- Bolton, and 8 Bolton - Manchester shown as separate services. Crazy. |
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shelf81
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Post by shelf81 on Apr 22, 2024 19:13:32 GMT 1
Won't they be meaning central Beeston on the display rather than Beeston Hill/Dewsbury Road or Tommy Wass? If your claiming 118 serves Beeston then you might as well include every bus that serves White Rose. That's just it though, the display on Middleton Park Avenue just states Beeston and really as I said in my edited comment WYCA need to split up areas like Beeston into sub areas. If they're going to generalise Beeston then they do need to include all services from Middleton Park Ave to Beeston, not just the 75 as the Tommy Wass junction as well as Upper Dewsbury Road are well within Beeston. As a side note, at the Tommy Wass stop Middleton bound it states the 75 serves Beeston, but in that direction it's leaving Beeston lol! The only last bit of Beeston it could possibly serve is Parkwood. Beeston did used to be split up on some timetables, as I remember in Kirklees Tommy Wass was included for the 202/3 but that was going back 5-10 years ago so not surprised it's changed since then. Not sure Beeston needs to be split into 5 though, just Beeston Centre, Tommy Wass & Beeston Hill would be enough with Elland Road being a big enough destination to be listed separate to Beeston. |
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Post by deerfold on Apr 22, 2024 20:07:55 GMT 1
Are you in Leeds? There seems to be quite a difference between Leeds and the other areas. For the services running past my house, they all have RealTime information at Keighley bus station and the stop after; the 903 and M4 also have it at Airedale Hospital. The 66 doesn't have any others, the 62 has it at Ilkley bus station and the second stop on the route. There's no maps at shelters. Many flags list destinations not served from that stop. None of our stops have realtime information on the flag. I am admittedly in Leeds, so lucky I guess, but even still on my travels to places like Hebden Bridge, Haworth, Holmfirth, even Oldfield I have had no issue finding printed timetables. I think I mentioned everything other than a lack of timetables... |
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Post by stantheman on Apr 22, 2024 23:24:35 GMT 1
There are still stops on the old X41/X80 route that state “Leeds” when buses haven’t gone to Leeds from those stops for over 18 months.
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Post by stephen01 on Apr 22, 2024 23:50:57 GMT 1
There are still stops on the old X41/X80 route that state “Leeds” when buses haven’t gone to Leeds from those stops for over 18 months. on Thorncliffe Road in Staincliffe they still have stops from when the 282 ran that way plus other parts have the 80's/90's style flags (even on Healds Road Road outside the Boothroyd Centre Car Park/Staincliffe Wing rear doors) |
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Post by martinsfp on Apr 23, 2024 0:23:18 GMT 1
This has reminded me that when I lived on the old 63 Horsforth - Leeds - Halton Dial route as a student, there was an empty timetable cabinet at the stop over the road from my house, so I typed out the real departure times from that stop and stuck them up there alongside text saying ‘provided by someone who cares about the details’. Hahaha.
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Post by deerfold on Apr 23, 2024 8:30:47 GMT 1
There are still stops on the old X41/X80 route that state “Leeds” when buses haven’t gone to Leeds from those stops for over 18 months. There's stops in Silsden say "Skipton" - a route that hasn't run for over a decade (the 70). |
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 23, 2024 19:58:46 GMT 1
Are you in Leeds? There seems to be quite a difference between Leeds and the other areas. For the services running past my house, they all have RealTime information at Keighley bus station and the stop after; the 903 and M4 also have it at Airedale Hospital. The 66 doesn't have any others, the 62 has it at Ilkley bus station and the second stop on the route. There's no maps at shelters. Many flags list destinations not served from that stop. None of our stops have realtime information on the flag. I am admittedly in Leeds, so lucky I guess, but even still on my travels to places like Hebden Bridge, Haworth, Holmfirth, even Oldfield I have had no issue finding printed timetables. Noticed the timetables are now getting put up at bus stops, walked over to Commons terminus with a friend and his dog, getting the 586 back to Ripponden. The timetable was put up even in a remote area that has a bus every 2 hours now features the most recent 586 timetable! |
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 23, 2024 20:02:25 GMT 1
The timetables on stops have got much worse since they automated their production where a route isn't straightforward. On my local timetables they say about Airedale Hospital "All services call" - however, all trips on the 66, 903 and M4 serve it, but only 1 trip a day in the evening (and 3 on Sundays) on the 62 (a half hourly service) do. At Airedale Hospital the 903 has a list of times. All trips take the same route to Steeton, then 10 of them turn left to Silsden, 4 of them continue straight on to Keighley. You can't tell from the stop timetable which service does which. Between Silsden and Steeton all buses take the same route to Steeton, then 8 trips turn right to Airedale Hospital, 2 turn left to Keighley. Again, you can't tell from the stop timetable which service does which. They've also stopped giving any indication of how long a journey will take. If you're travelling from Ripponden to Halifax a journey could take 28 minutes or it could take 61 minutes, depending which bus you take, but there's no indication which trips go on longer routes - for the longest it's almost always worth waiting for a quicker one. I've told Metro about this, but it doesn't seem to help. That would be useful, also an annoying thing about Metro is that the "summary" timetable is not featured at every stop. Would be useful if there were a combined timetable for the direct bus services for King Cross towards Halifax at the bus stops. |
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 25, 2024 17:45:33 GMT 1
There are still stops on the old X41/X80 route that state “Leeds” when buses haven’t gone to Leeds from those stops for over 18 months. There's stops in Silsden say "Skipton" - a route that hasn't run for over a decade (the 70). I think there's some bus stops still in West Yorkshire somewhere that haven't been used since the 1970s. |
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 25, 2024 17:57:41 GMT 1
There's stops in Silsden say "Skipton" - a route that hasn't run for over a decade (the 70). I think there's some bus stops still in West Yorkshire somewhere that haven't been used since the 1970s. Not West Yorkshire, but Greater Manchester still have bus stops around Lydgate and ones on the A672 beyond Denshaw. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 25, 2024 18:37:56 GMT 1
I think there's some bus stops still in West Yorkshire somewhere that haven't been used since the 1970s. Not West Yorkshire, but Greater Manchester still have bus stops around Lydgate and ones on the A672 beyond Denshaw. As long as they clearly say they aren’t in use, then there is nothing wrong with that |
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