Is the forum going downhill?

[Deleted]

Am I the only one think who thinks the forum is going downhill?

I take my blame for this as well.

What happened to the forum, we're meant to be bus enthuasists, with all of us having a common goal of enjoying the same hobby and enjoying the industry.  Lately, the forum has just turned into one big fight with each other, all members fighting with each other, whether its about Transdev, A and A (I include myself in that one due to the fact the way they treated an autistic person, and hence I'm autistic, this is why I have it in for them), people scared to ask geniune questions without members giving sarcastic and quite rude responses.

Also, the amount of moaning thats constantly going on between members, instead of sharing ideas of what we want the industry to be, we all seem to be attacking and criticising each other, the forum has turned hostile in a small sort of way, in a lot of threads, here, it ends ups going off topic and ends up in childish arguements between people, I take my responsibility for that.

People seem to ask geniune sensible questions and they end up getting rude and disrespectful responses.

We almost lost a fantastic industry insider at Yorkshire Buses on the forum over the last few weeks, due to the amount of moaning and slanderous comments made against them, and the forum drove Alex Hornby away, it's not very often and we should be grateful we have people with knowlege and information like this user at Yorkshire Buses,  if we go along the way it has been going, then I can start to feel we will lose some valued members.

This forum should be about people getting together sensibly and discussing their interests of buses and transport industry, in a polite and civil manner,  this isn't happening at the moment, because we all seem to end up being rather childish and rather petty about it. We should be allowing and encouraging people to ask questions, older members willing to share the knowledge with younger members such as myself,  we should do away with the snobbishness, some members seem to think they're better than others, and seem to enjoy making sarcastic remarks to others.

Have some of you guys thought about how the other person at the other end is feeling when you send your message, one sarcastic remark and rude answer, could drive away people from this forum. I think we all need to get back to what this forum was meant to do, for us to discuss buses and anything West Yorkshire Travel related in a very polite and civil atmosphere. We should be encouraging people to ask questions, not dismissing them and being rude to members.

I'll admit to causing some of this mess and hold my hands up for being aggressive and can be rude on occassions, I think at the moment, we're probably putting people off and joining the forum.

Mods this thread is meant for a civil discussion and politieness, rather blame fingers at people or malicious intent,  I await your responses. I felt like I had to post this, as we seem to be drifitng away from the forum;s main point of view, we all need to be less negative, and more civil and polite with each other and make it a more relaxing place to be.

[stephen01]

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not been the same for a while now. Speaking as a fellow member who's on the Autism spectrum i get where your coming from. Maybe the Admin and current Moderators could look to set up a couple of more Moderators to help out. One thing that i find really annoying is that if you pass on info but advised not to identify your source you get people demanding to know where the info is from. The A&A/30 thread really does need locking as it's going way too far at times.

[Deleted]

I agree Stephen, I regret my comments on the A and A Travel thread, took it too far from my end, always happy to admit when I am wrong.

Another thing I think we need to distingiush the rumours from the facts, its okay to post rumours, but when people do, they must make it clear otherwise people might get the wrong idea.

Also have to remember on here, we have drivers who work for bus companies and we must bare them in mind when posting rumours and things like that.

[stephen01]

Sept 12, 2023 20:04:29 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

I agree Stephen, I regret my comments on the A and A Travel thread, took it too far from my end, always happy to admit when I am wrong.

Another thing I think we need to distingiush the rumours from the facts, its okay to post rumours, but when people do, they must make it clear otherwise people might get the wrong idea.

Also have to remember on here, we have drivers who work for bus companies and we must bare them in mind when posting rumours and things like that.

totally agree that some need to be considerate but it also needs to be both ways and the drivers be mindful of others.

[delenn]

As a new member, I don't remember how it was. But in my early days, I asked something and just got sarcastic replies. I almost didn't bother coming back - I only did so because I'm bloody minded and didn't want to be driven away.

I'm glad I stayed. There is good knowledge and history on here, and industry people like the chap from Yorkshire Buses are always a pleasure to learn from. Even now, there have been some points I've decided not to make for fear of the backlash. One day I might....

[joseph]

Personally I think it's ok to be critical of people in authority within transport if they are clearly doing a really bad job, however it's overstepping the mark to make comments on small mistakes when most of what they are doing is good.

Take the guy who runs Hulleys, too much too fast too soon and having to catch up with himself in order to pay the bills, I'm quite right to say in my opinion that he's making a mess of things considering the high profile disasters such as the over ambitious Breezer timetable that was changed with no notice, drivers so fed up with him they are leaving him short regularly (so much so he can't even run the Breezer) and so on. Tracy Brabin and WYCA are another example where you rightly can be critical as they've made a right mess of the Leeds network map and it's named services which still don't make sense, then there's the scandal surrounding the expensive East Leeds DRT, pulled a year early it's making such losses, and the latest one is the mess surrounding the inputting wrongful data leading to bus times being wrong, drivers on service 1 and 1B for example are following the wrong times would you believe! A service 1B left Beeston terminus at 07.28 (the wrongly inputted time) instead of 07.15 and I've seen many a 1 turn up as a 1B lately. Nobody at Metro can explain, they say nothing has changed.

Now the owner of Yorkshire buses is a different story all together, he's trying to do a good job from scratch and is learning as he goes along, but clearly doesn't need to be told off, grilled, questioned by Hilcrest House staff in disguise for a small error that actually wasn't an error after all.

[kendall17]

I rarely post anything thesedays and when I do, it's usually in defence of someone or something. That's because everyone is so quick to judge and jump on the back of something, looking for someone to blame or to complain about, all rightly or wrongly, but they're entitled to their opinions.

We all have our own feelings, emotions and demons. What we don't have is the respect for each other's opinions and situations, especially if we don't know them personally or agree with what people have to say.

It's a societal problem, but is exasperated on this forum.

[Deleted]

I help run a Facebook group with 600k members on it world wide and get thousands joining everyday. People have a right to an opinion, but what we don't tolerate on there is people giving abuse to others on there, I mean I suspended about 30-40 people yesterday because they started getting nasty with people.

I also think it's a transport industry problem in general a lot of unpleasent people, a lot of enthuasists I have come across in the real world, have tended to be quite rude and nasty people, they think the bus or train network, should be run for them, the last few times transport enthuasists and bus spotters got on my bus, they clearly annoyed the driver by pestering him with questions and walking up and down for no reason looking at people and what they are doing.

Then you have those train spotters, who think its a good idea to stand too near to the tracks and behind the lines and when confronted, they report the drivers for being rude, even though the enthuasists was breaking the rules and safety of themselves and others.

I think also people on here don't respect other people's opinions and views, for example, there's a few posters on here who think its okay to be rude to people who struggle with spelling and grammar, for all we know they could be dyslexic, we tend to clamp down on people like this on Facebook.

I include myself on that list of not always respecting other people's views and I probably one of the few people here who can hold my hands up and admit that.

[Deleted]

I'd say the forum going downhill ties in with the bus industry in general being on a downhill spiral at the moment, with some common themes between the 2.

As like both the Government of all levels & bus companies, cherry picking of facts to suit peoples objective seems to be increasing on here also & the posters ignore the larger picture plus refuse to listen when people attempt to correct them (I'd say the East Leeds DRT is a prime example, baring in mind people like to use it as a stick to beat Brabin saying she wasted the money ignoring the fact the funding was for a DRT & only DRT, plus as DRTs was a requirement of BSIPs we would more than likely not be having the improvements around Keighley or Calderdale/Kirklees if the East Leeds DRT had not happened)

I Wasn't as active around the time Alex Hornby had his short lived account on here (as it was during my years living outside the country) so not 100% sure what was said, but I Think it is/was fair to disagree with his approach & offer critic to Transdev on stuff they didn't always get correct, but if he got similar personal attacks that he also got on Twitter then I'm not surprised he left as they did cross a line.

I Think the general fall in passenger satisfaction to public transport has affected the forum as well as alot on here (if not most) are day to day passengers alongside being enthusiasts , I'd say its only natural for your joy of being an enthusiast to be affected if your having poor experiences on a general day to day basis - I know this is certainly something that happened to me over the past few years.

One last thing is that I Think sometimes people need to remember this is meant to be just an enthusiasts forum not a complaints site, one or 2 threads about major cancellations or when it becomes main news seems reasonable but the day to day log of what's running or not running followed by cheap shots in reply aimed at either the bus company or in reply to the poster has just got OTT.

[deerfold]

Sept 13, 2023 15:20:00 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

(I'd say the East Leeds DRT is a prime example, baring in mind people like to use it as a stick to beat Brabin saying she wasted the money ignoring the fact the funding was for a DRT & only DRT, plus as DRTs was a requirement of BSIPs we would more than likely not be having the improvements around Keighley or Calderdale/Kirklees if the East Leeds DRT had not happened)

Plus, the contract for it was awarded before she was elected, so she'll have had little chance to influence anything about it. We've seen how long it's taking in Manchester to produce improvements - I'm hoping for some, but not expecting miracles.

Sept 13, 2023 15:20:00 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

One last thing is that I Think sometimes people need to remember this is meant to be just an enthusiasts forum not a complaints site, one or 2 threads about major cancellations or when it becomes main news seems reasonable but the day to day log of what's running or not running followed by cheap shots in reply aimed at either the bus company or in reply to the poster has just got OTT.

That should probably be addressed to the bus company in question, first.

[Deleted]

If people have geniune complaints with a company, they should complain to them rather than come on an address them here. This is the one of the biggest issues I saw people had with the Transdev thread, because the poster in question annoyed a few people myself included, without addressing any of the points put forward to them by fellow members, and causing a huge conflict in the forum.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2023 15:25:39 GMT 1 deerfold said:

Sept 13, 2023 15:20:00 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

One last thing is that I Think sometimes people need to remember this is meant to be just an enthusiasts forum not a complaints site, one or 2 threads about major cancellations or when it becomes main news seems reasonable but the day to day log of what's running or not running followed by cheap shots in reply aimed at either the bus company or in reply to the poster has just got OTT.

That should probably be addressed to the bus company in question, first.

Agreed, speak to the Bus Company & if not pleased with their response going to WYCA/Metro/VOSA/the local MP would probably do alot more good than having a mindless rant on here about it.

[dlspotter]

Sept 13, 2023 15:34:54 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

Sept 13, 2023 15:25:39 GMT 1 deerfold said:

That should probably be addressed to the bus company in question, first.

Agreed, speak to the Bus Company & if not pleased with their response going to WYCA/Metro/VOSA/the local MP would probably do alot more good than having a mindless rant on here about it.

I feel like the person who was making those posts was rather not doing it to complain about cancelations (especially because they were on a route that this person does not live on) but to complain about how the company operates. Complained about their business model for having high-spec buses rather than buying old bangers (makes me think it is an enthusiast with a vendetta against transdev for some reason, and has a particular preference for riding on old banged out buses than newer buses, which probably explains their continued demanding that Transdev drops the route on the idea that a company that operates really old buses will take it over). Also just complaining at the forum and starting arguments with no intention of responding to anyone, insulting members and being overall repetitive. 

[576 Gemini 2]

Thanks for this thread, I am autistic as well, there are things I would like to know about how decisions are effecting the day to day running of bus companies, one things I would like if or when are the Enviros at Halifax going to put back on public service but I feel someone in the know might give me answer along the lines of" how would like to drive a under powered bus up a steep hill with a lot of angry car drivers tooting at you?"so I stay quiet.

Another thing which I have started to see a lot of on facebook groups is the term bus veg to describe people, which I think is a degrading term I do not know if is been used on this forum.

[Deleted]

There are a lot of bus enthusaists in the industry who cause a lot of controversy, some of the more younger ones, who think the networks of buses should be run for them and the public, then it does give the impression of taring them with the same brush and some of it goes into the forum. But then you get some of the older ones who are very set in their ways and have a quite sense of superority, and that actually comes from a few members on this forum, and that puts people off asking questions.

It also does seem to be a generational thing as every generation the older people like to moan about the younger people, I am sure the younger us in 30 years time will be moaning about the next generation, that happens a part of life.

I'm glad in a way Enthuasists in a way don't run bus companies, otherwise you would still be having Atlanteans or Olympians on public services, don't get me wrong they was great buses, but times change and we have to adapt, and in the bus industry theres still people who are still clinging on to the past.

I do also think some enthuasistcs get a bit overenthuastic and take things to far, by annoying bus drivers, they should leave that sort of thing for running days and rallys, they're the events for enthuasists not public bus network.

It does seem to get a lot more personal on the forum than it used to be.

[Deleted]

I see on the cancellation threads, LucyP vendetta posts against Transdev remain, but other members posts get deleted?    No explanation as why the posts would be deleted,  Moderators should have to explain why they make a decision and why they remove posts, we do on Facebook, so the same standards should be held here.

[Craig]

There’s a lot of sensible points here, mostly along the lines of trying to be more respectful/tolerant, which needs to happen on all sides. As a lot of people here are in agreement with this, hopefully there will be an improvement going forward.

PS I have removed some of the off topic posts to ensure this thread stays relevant for anyone else who wishes to add comments.

[Deleted]

Thank you Craig. I apologise for any comments on my behalf towards you and Burnside.

[77syk7]

I have been a bus enthusiast for 65 years.
I am interested in the bus routes and the vehicles which operate them....

[stantheman]

I don’t post as much after someone had a right go at me for “posting on the wrong thread”. It was more the tone of the response that annoyed me, as if there isn’t enough to worry about in life.

I’ve had lots of ‘unusual working’ spots in Wakefield that I could have posted but think twice about posting them and often don’t bother anymore.

[chas]

Sept 25, 2023 7:43:45 GMT 1 stantheman said:

I don’t post as much after someone had a right go at me for “posting on the wrong thread”. It was more the tone of the response that annoyed me, as if there isn’t enough to worry about in life.

I’ve had lots of ‘unusual working’ spots in Wakefield that I could have posted but think twice about posting them and often don’t bother anymore.

Don’t worry what others say.  If your post is worth saying, post it.

[Deleted]

I am sure there are plenty of people who here are interested in unusual sightings in Wakefield.