Leeds Bradford Airport & Parkway Station discussion

[kendall17]

How many people actually get off the plane and onto the bus?

I suspect very few, given the amount of variables in their travel arrangements.

[stephen01]

Jul 25, 2023 21:12:37 GMT 1 kendall17 said:

How many people actually get off the plane and onto the bus?

I suspect very few, given the amount of variables in their travel arrangements.

exactly since Covid there's not been the footfall for it to even for A1 to go back anywhere near 24/7. I was surprised with the through routes on A2 starting so early.

[jst]

Jul 25, 2023 21:12:37 GMT 1 kendall17 said:

How many people actually get off the plane and onto the bus?

I suspect very few, given the amount of variables in their travel arrangements.

More than you would think. Obviously less so from the holiday destination flights (those laden with cases from a fortnight away) but my experiences the shorter flights from Dublin/Belfast and particularly the flights from Poland/Wizz flights from Eastern Europe generate plenty of traffic for the connecting buses.

[joseph]

If the A1, A2 and A3 are to succeed then All 3 Airport buses including should stop acting as local buses and actually act as more of an Airport bus through not stopping on roads served by other buses nearby to the same place, e.g. the A1 should run non stop to Victoria Avenue by the factory, then pick up/drop off at the 2 stops from there to the Airport, the A2 should only pick up and drop off on the section from Greengates to the Airport with the A3 only picking up and dropping off between Shipley and the Airport. I know for the latter the 649 also serves Charlestown/Baildon on common sections with the A3, but it's not all that frequent so you could make a concession there. The only other exception would be to pick up Airport workers along the way, or staff working up at the businesses by the Airport, all of whom could have special passes issued. Make the journey time faster then you make it more of an attractive alternative to a taxi, after all who wants to share a much slower journey with half a dozen pillocks who could have got on the an alternative 33/4 slowing your Airport journey down!

[kendall17]

That, I assume, is down to the level of funding received for the routes. Less funding = having to subsidise with local fares.

I agree they should drop the local route and maybe should go alighting only on the likes of Kirkstall road (inbound).

[deerfold]

Jul 26, 2023 8:27:40 GMT 1 kendall17 said:

That, I assume, is down to the level of funding received for the routes. Less funding = having to subsidise with local fares.

I agree they should drop the local route and maybe should go alighting only on the likes of Kirkstall road (inbound).

If the airport wants express routes it'll need to fund express routes. The A2 and A3 are extensions of routes that would likely receive subsidies anyway, though they probably wouldn't run so late without the airport extension.

[lucyp]

The airport buses were never really airport buses, but were always local buses. They are never piled high with luggage, and most people get on and off at the intermediate stops, and the buses are pretty empty by the time they reach the airport.

The airport has always had the worst connections. No trains, no motorways, dual-carriageways, bypasses. It has always relied on driving there or taxis.

The last time I used the bus from the airport to Harrogate, (before the £2 fare scheme) (and I had only used the airport to drop off a hire car), the driver had no idea of tickets. I wanted a ticket from the airport, that would then allow me to travel on from Harrogate to Wetherby. He claimed there was no such ticket, but sold me a £5 ticket. When I tried to use it in Harrogate, rather than pay again, it was accepted by the machine without a problem.

Most of the Ryanair flights leave first thing in the morning. At present, the first bus from Harrogate arrives too late for those. The first bus from Bradford also was pushing it/arrived too late for those flights and is being withdrawn.

The 19:40 and 20:40 from Bradford will only run to the airport, not Harrogate. The 21:40 and 22:40 currently only run to the airport. Therefore, the last bus from the airport to Harrogate will leave at 19:32. Realistically there will be no evening bus service to Harrogate, when you allow for flight delays, taxxing, disembarking, walking to the terminal, passport control, baggage reclaim. If your flight is timetabled to land after 6 or 6:30pm, then you are unlikely to make the bus.

The first bus from Harrogate won't arrive at the airport until 7:15, so realistically unless you have a mid-morning flight, then you cannot use the bus. At the weekend, make that 8:32. The last bus from Harrogate will be 20:10.

Transdev are slowly turning into Connexions - no early, late or Sundays!

A taxi is about £36 from Harrogate to the airport, and more on the return journey, as the on-site firm charges a premium. A week's parking, in Autumn, off-site is about £76.

[Username]

Jul 26, 2023 12:45:58 GMT 1 lucyp said:

The airport buses were never really airport buses, but were always local buses. They are never piled high with luggage, and most people get on and off at the intermediate stops, and the buses are pretty empty by the time they reach the airport.

The airport has always had the worst connections. No trains, no motorways, dual-carriageways, bypasses. It has always relied on driving there or taxis.

The last time I used the bus from the airport to Harrogate, (before the £2 fare scheme) (and I had only used the airport to drop off a hire car), the driver had no idea of tickets. I wanted a ticket from the airport, that would then allow me to travel on from Harrogate to Wetherby. He claimed there was no such ticket, but sold me a £5 ticket. When I tried to use it in Harrogate, rather than pay again, it was accepted by the machine without a problem.

Most of the Ryanair flights leave first thing in the morning. At present, the first bus from Harrogate arrives too late for those. The first bus from Bradford also was pushing it/arrived too late for those flights and is being withdrawn.

The 19:40 and 20:40 from Bradford will only run to the airport, not Harrogate. The 21:40 and 22:40 currently only run to the airport. Therefore, the last bus from the airport to Harrogate will leave at 19:32. Realistically there will be no evening bus service to Harrogate, when you allow for flight delays, taxxing, disembarking, walking to the terminal, passport control, baggage reclaim. If your flight is timetabled to land after 6 or 6:30pm, then you are unlikely to make the bus.

The first bus from Harrogate won't arrive at the airport until 7:15, so realistically unless you have a mid-morning flight, then you cannot use the bus. At the weekend, make that 8:32. The last bus from Harrogate will be 20:10.

Transdev are slowly turning into Connexions - no early, late or Sundays!

A taxi is about £36 from Harrogate to the airport, and more on the return journey, as the on-site firm charges a premium. A week's parking, in Autumn, off-site is about £76.

Sorry but nobody goes to Harrogate in the evenings. They're focusing on demand. If you want to do Bradford to Harrogate there's still 72 and 36. 

[lucyp]

Jul 26, 2023 13:47:24 GMT 1 Username said:

Sorry but nobody goes to Harrogate in the evenings. They're focusing on demand. If you want to do Bradford to Harrogate there's still 72 and 36. 

You've missed the point. The point is that it is now even more useless than before, as the airport service that it is being advertised as being.

[westyorkshirebus]

Jul 26, 2023 6:36:50 GMT 1 joseph said:

If the A1, A2 and A3 are to succeed then All 3 Airport buses including should stop acting as local buses and actually act as more of an Airport bus through not stopping on roads served by other buses nearby to the same place, e.g. the A1 should run non stop to Victoria Avenue by the factory, then pick up/drop off at the 2 stops from there to the Airport, the A2 should only pick up and drop off on the section from Greengates to the Airport with the A3 only picking up and dropping off between Shipley and the Airport. I know for the latter the 649 also serves Charlestown/Baildon on common sections with the A3, but it's not all that frequent so you could make a concession there. The only other exception would be to pick up Airport workers along the way, or staff working up at the businesses by the Airport, all of whom could have special passes issued. Make the journey time faster then you make it more of an attractive alternative to a taxi, after all who wants to share a much slower journey with half a dozen pillocks who could have got on the an alternative 33/4 slowing your Airport journey down!

There isn’t enough passengers to justify a bus that runs for the Airport only, hence why it covers two markets at once

I know airport bosses and politicians have this idea of suited business men catching a bus from Bradford to the airport to then catch a business flight, or families taking massive suitcases on board for their week in Spain, but I imagine there are few of either.

Plus of course if they did run express, airport workers who probably would use the bus and probably live in Yeadon, Guiseley etc, wouldn’t be able to use it

A lot of the smaller airports up and down the country who have buses, run them as local buses and airport buses combined, East Midlands and the Trent Barton/Kinchbus services immediately come to mind.

[Deleted]

Jul 26, 2023 6:36:50 GMT 1 joseph said:

If the A1, A2 and A3 are to succeed then All 3 Airport buses including should stop acting as local buses and actually act as more of an Airport bus through not stopping on roads served by other buses nearby to the same place, e.g. the A1 should run non stop to Victoria Avenue by the factory, then pick up/drop off at the 2 stops from there to the Airport, the A2 should only pick up and drop off on the section from Greengates to the Airport with the A3 only picking up and dropping off between Shipley and the Airport. I know for the latter the 649 also serves Charlestown/Baildon on common sections with the A3, but it's not all that frequent so you could make a concession there. The only other exception would be to pick up Airport workers along the way, or staff working up at the businesses by the Airport, all of whom could have special passes issued. Make the journey time faster then you make it more of an attractive alternative to a taxi, after all who wants to share a much slower journey with half a dozen pillocks who could have got on the an alternative 33/4 slowing your Airport journey down!

Or even better, they finally get to work building & opening the Parkway station with the frequent shuttle to/from the Airport for people who want a quicker journey?

Would allow the A1-3 to be re-focused as local services that also serve the Airport (although would probably kill off the Harrogate section). As for calling people who use the non-airport sections of the routes pillocks maybe you should note that other local services have been reduced over the past few years (Including the 33/4) before you complain - turning the A1-3 into express routes would basically be another cutback on local services.

[SCH117X]

Jul 26, 2023 15:18:37 GMT 1 lucyp said:

You've missed the point. The point is that it is now even more useless than before, as the airport service that it is being advertised as being.

The existing service was announced Sept 2020 as a partnership beteeen Transdev, Metro (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) and Leeds Bradford Airport which was described as multi-year - obviously three and now all three parties will have been involved in determining the level of service which is now to be provided. In the past Harrogate-Airport was operated separtely and for a period Dales & District had the tender for that service. No one is going to run a bus on that section in particular unless their are finances provdided and clearly Metro and or LBA do not see appropriate value for money.

[lucyp]

There isn't going to be a parkway station for the airport. The last time it was costed, 2 years ago, it was £42 million and we all know how inaccurate rail costings are (Elizabeth Line, HS2). It's a total waste of money. It wasn't even going to go all the way to the airport for those numbers, was it? There was still going to be a bus from the station to the airport. Did anyone ever cost that? How much was that?

That was before the airport shelved their £150 million expansion plans last year.

What's the difference between that and putting a shuttle bus on from Horsforth station? It's 2.6 miles away. There is never any joined up thinking. Why don't they trial a shuttle bus from Horsforth to the airport?

Currently it's 43 minutes from Leeds on the bus service that is dying from a thousand cuts. (Is this Transdev now trying to reduce expenses that have been wasted under previous management?) It's 8 to 12 minutes from Leeds to Horsforth on the train, and 2.6 miles would be another 8 minutes maximum on the bus, so even allowing for boarding etc., you have halved the current time.

You can find a single adult fare from Leeds to Horsforth as low as £1.70, so even if the combined fare was a comparatively expensive £5, it is still far cheaper than a taxi or parking at the airport.

[dlspotter]

Jul 27, 2023 13:36:44 GMT 1 lucyp said:

There isn't going to be a parkway station for the airport. The last time it was costed, 2 years ago, it was £42 million and we all know how inaccurate rail costings are (Elizabeth Line, HS2). It's a total waste of money. It wasn't even going to go all the way to the airport for those numbers, was it? There was still going to be a bus from the station to the airport. Did anyone ever cost that? How much was that?

That was before the airport shelved their £150 million expansion plans last year.

What's the difference between that and putting a shuttle bus on from Horsforth station? It's 2.6 miles away. There is never any joined up thinking. Why don't they trial a shuttle bus from Horsforth to the airport?

Currently it's 43 minutes from Leeds on the bus service that is dying from a thousand cuts. (Is this Transdev now trying to reduce expenses that have been wasted under previous management?) It's 8 to 12 minutes from Leeds to Horsforth on the train, and 2.6 miles would be another 8 minutes maximum on the bus, so even allowing for boarding etc., you have halved the current time.

You can find a single adult fare from Leeds to Horsforth as low as £1.70, so even if the combined fare was a comparatively expensive £5, it is still far cheaper than a taxi or parking at the airport.

There used to be a service from LBA to Horsforth station that ran as a Wharfedale Links alongside the Flying Tiger services. However this service did not run so often, had gaps in service too. I also feel like this service was more on a basis of those who knew about it used it rather than it being general knowledge.

I had to travel to LBA using bus in the past few days so the existence of a service from the airport to Horsforth Station did come to mind - the service could definitely run every 30 minutes if it ran direct, however Horsforth Station is very tight in the car park so any service that did use it would probably have to find somewhere else to stop.

If you search on most train ticketing websites it will offer through ticketing to the airport showing usually the A1 as a connecting bus from Leeds - if it showed the connecting bus from Horsforth it could possibly be well used - however awareness would have to be much higher to get people out of cars and onto combined train/bus.

Also the service would require drivers and breaks to be worked out - however given this service is now a thing of the past, I can't see anything similar happening again unless possibly an independent operator tried it.

[stephen01]

Jul 27, 2023 13:59:21 GMT 1 dlspotter said:

Jul 27, 2023 13:36:44 GMT 1 lucyp said:

There isn't going to be a parkway station for the airport. The last time it was costed, 2 years ago, it was £42 million and we all know how inaccurate rail costings are (Elizabeth Line, HS2). It's a total waste of money. It wasn't even going to go all the way to the airport for those numbers, was it? There was still going to be a bus from the station to the airport. Did anyone ever cost that? How much was that?

That was before the airport shelved their £150 million expansion plans last year.

What's the difference between that and putting a shuttle bus on from Horsforth station? It's 2.6 miles away. There is never any joined up thinking. Why don't they trial a shuttle bus from Horsforth to the airport?

Currently it's 43 minutes from Leeds on the bus service that is dying from a thousand cuts. (Is this Transdev now trying to reduce expenses that have been wasted under previous management?) It's 8 to 12 minutes from Leeds to Horsforth on the train, and 2.6 miles would be another 8 minutes maximum on the bus, so even allowing for boarding etc., you have halved the current time.

You can find a single adult fare from Leeds to Horsforth as low as £1.70, so even if the combined fare was a comparatively expensive £5, it is still far cheaper than a taxi or parking at the airport.

There used to be a service from LBA to Horsforth station that ran as a Wharfedale Links alongside the Flying Tiger services. However this service did not run so often, had gaps in service too. I also feel like this service was more on a basis of those who knew about it used it rather than it being general knowledge.

I had to travel to LBA using bus in the past few days so the existence of a service from the airport to Horsforth Station did come to mind - the service could definitely run every 30 minutes if it ran direct, however Horsforth Station is very tight in the car park so any service that did use it would probably have to find somewhere else to stop.

If you search on most train ticketing websites it will offer through ticketing to the airport showing usually the A1 as a connecting bus from Leeds - if it showed the connecting bus from Horsforth it could possibly be well used - however awareness would have to be much higher to get people out of cars and onto combined train/bus.

Also the service would require drivers and breaks to be worked out - however given this service is now a thing of the past, I can't see anything similar happening again unless possibly an independent operator tried it.

the last "local" route similar to that was the 967 which TLC ran for a good few years then Transdev got the contract and added it to the 62 with it been incorporated in to A3 when they established Flyer.

[lucyp]

Yes, but car-parking and drivers rotas are small-fry compared with spending £42 million on a parkway station on the Harrogate Line, that doesn't go to the airport and still needs a bus transfer.

Horsforth is the ideal trial. If no one is interested in a train to Horsforth and then a bus to the airport, they are not interested in a parkway station on the same line and a bus transfer to the airport, and you have saved £40 million!

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2023 14:41:20 GMT 1 lucyp said:

Yes, but car-parking and drivers rotas are small-fry compared with spending £42 million on a parkway station on the Harrogate Line, that doesn't go to the airport and still needs a bus transfer.

Horsforth is the ideal trial. If no one is interested in a train to Horsforth and then a bus to the airport, they are not interested in a parkway station on the same line and a bus transfer to the airport, and you have saved £40 million!

It might shock you to learn that £42M really isn't that large amount when it comes to railway infrastructure. In fact for a parkway station with a platform side bus interchange, a full station building with a ticket office & retail/leisure units, bus priority measures most of the way to the Airport, 'active travel' routes to Cookridge & over 300 parking spaces to act as a P&R (helping take cars out of the city centre) I'd say it's good value when White Rose is costing around 27M with less than half them things.

[stevieinselby]

Jul 27, 2023 13:59:21 GMT 1 dlspotter said:

There used to be a service from LBA to Horsforth station that ran as a Wharfedale Links alongside the Flying Tiger services. However this service did not run so often, had gaps in service too. I also feel like this service was more on a basis of those who knew about it used it rather than it being general knowledge.

I had to travel to LBA using bus in the past few days so the existence of a service from the airport to Horsforth Station did come to mind - the service could definitely run every 30 minutes if it ran direct, however Horsforth Station is very tight in the car park so any service that did use it would probably have to find somewhere else to stop.

If you search on most train ticketing websites it will offer through ticketing to the airport showing usually the A1 as a connecting bus from Leeds - if it showed the connecting bus from Horsforth it could possibly be well used - however awareness would have to be much higher to get people out of cars and onto combined train/bus.

Also the service would require drivers and breaks to be worked out - however given this service is now a thing of the past, I can't see anything similar happening again unless possibly an independent operator tried it.

I don't understand the purpose of the proposed Leeds-Bradford Airport station.

If it's primarily intended for people travelling to the airport (either people who work there or people who are flying) then the distance from the station to the airport makes it pointless. A shuttle bus will be needed, including construction of a new road – so you could instead build a new bus-only road to the back of the current Horsforth station, and then have an easy 2.5 mile bus connection, which would be a fraction of the price of a new station and could be delivered much more quickly. That connecting service shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes, so the time saving from having a slightly shorted shuttle bus from the new station would be so small as to be unnoticeable, and easily lost in the "noise" of the time you spend waiting for the bus. So as a connection to the airport, it makes no sense.

So does that mean it is primarily going to be a park and ride station for people heading into Leeds? That certainly looks to be the market they are aiming for, when you see the size of the car park – but who will use it? Access is from a fairly minor lane that isn't on an obvious route to anywhere, and isn't really suitable for high volumes of traffic. Anyone coming from Otley could easily use Menston station, anyone coming from Yeadon and Rawdon could easily use Apperley Bridge station ... it's only Bramhope that doesn't already have a good option for park and rail, and is that a big enough market to justify it (bearing in mind it's only going to be a half-hourly service, which is not enough for an effective or attractive park and ride service)?

[Deleted]

Jul 27, 2023 23:12:14 GMT 1 stevieinselby said:

Jul 27, 2023 13:59:21 GMT 1 dlspotter said:

There used to be a service from LBA to Horsforth station that ran as a Wharfedale Links alongside the Flying Tiger services. However this service did not run so often, had gaps in service too. I also feel like this service was more on a basis of those who knew about it used it rather than it being general knowledge.

I had to travel to LBA using bus in the past few days so the existence of a service from the airport to Horsforth Station did come to mind - the service could definitely run every 30 minutes if it ran direct, however Horsforth Station is very tight in the car park so any service that did use it would probably have to find somewhere else to stop.

If you search on most train ticketing websites it will offer through ticketing to the airport showing usually the A1 as a connecting bus from Leeds - if it showed the connecting bus from Horsforth it could possibly be well used - however awareness would have to be much higher to get people out of cars and onto combined train/bus.

Also the service would require drivers and breaks to be worked out - however given this service is now a thing of the past, I can't see anything similar happening again unless possibly an independent operator tried it.

I don't understand the purpose of the proposed Leeds-Bradford Airport station.

If it's primarily intended for people travelling to the airport (either people who work there or people who are flying) then the distance from the station to the airport makes it pointless. A shuttle bus will be needed, including construction of a new road – so you could instead build a new bus-only road to the back of the current Horsforth station, and then have an easy 2.5 mile bus connection, which would be a fraction of the price of a new station and could be delivered much more quickly. That connecting service shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes, so the time saving from having a slightly shorted shuttle bus from the new station would be so small as to be unnoticeable, and easily lost in the "noise" of the time you spend waiting for the bus. So as a connection to the airport, it makes no sense.

So does that mean it is primarily going to be a park and ride station for people heading into Leeds? That certainly looks to be the market they are aiming for, when you see the size of the car park – but who will use it? Access is from a fairly minor lane that isn't on an obvious route to anywhere, and isn't really suitable for high volumes of traffic. Anyone coming from Otley could easily use Menston station, anyone coming from Yeadon and Rawdon could easily use Apperley Bridge station ... it's only Bramhope that doesn't already have a good option for park and rail, and is that a big enough market to justify it (bearing in mind it's only going to be a half-hourly service, which is not enough for an effective or attractive park and ride service)?

The problem with building a bus only road to Horsforth Station (plus presumably also buying the land for a bus interchange) is that due to it being more built up around Horsforth Station it will cost more to acquire the land so it might not be as cheap an option as it first looks. There was also some slight road improvements to come with the station so it would no longer be just a minor lane.

For the Park & Ride element of it, I'd say looking long term there will be a greater catchment for it. Bramhope is expanding plus proposals for Otley East development what would mean Menston would need a car park expansion anyway (again would be costly due to it being in a built up area),plus giving Otley the choice of the 2 would allow capacity to be shared between the Harrogate & Wharfedale lines (Other parts of the Wharfedale lines are to see housing expansions as well so would be wise to try & offer this station for Otley) plus allow people to P&R for Harrogate/York alongside Leeds. There's also the local catchment for it as well with footpaths planned to Cookridge - maybe a better name for the station might of been 'Cookridge for LBA'.

If they was looking to reduce the costs then the easiest thing would be to look at building it without such a large station building & instead go for something more similar to New Pudsey. Of course the main thing to remember is the idea of this station was an alternative to spending £100M on new link roads to the Airport, so you could say they've already halved the cost while producing more benefits.

[WYBS]

Jul 27, 2023 23:51:01 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

Jul 27, 2023 23:12:14 GMT 1 stevieinselby said:

I don't understand the purpose of the proposed Leeds-Bradford Airport station.

If it's primarily intended for people travelling to the airport (either people who work there or people who are flying) then the distance from the station to the airport makes it pointless. A shuttle bus will be needed, including construction of a new road – so you could instead build a new bus-only road to the back of the current Horsforth station, and then have an easy 2.5 mile bus connection, which would be a fraction of the price of a new station and could be delivered much more quickly. That connecting service shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes, so the time saving from having a slightly shorted shuttle bus from the new station would be so small as to be unnoticeable, and easily lost in the "noise" of the time you spend waiting for the bus. So as a connection to the airport, it makes no sense.

So does that mean it is primarily going to be a park and ride station for people heading into Leeds? That certainly looks to be the market they are aiming for, when you see the size of the car park – but who will use it? Access is from a fairly minor lane that isn't on an obvious route to anywhere, and isn't really suitable for high volumes of traffic. Anyone coming from Otley could easily use Menston station, anyone coming from Yeadon and Rawdon could easily use Apperley Bridge station ... it's only Bramhope that doesn't already have a good option for park and rail, and is that a big enough market to justify it (bearing in mind it's only going to be a half-hourly service, which is not enough for an effective or attractive park and ride service)?

The problem with building a bus only road to Horsforth Station (plus presumably also buying the land for a bus interchange) is that due to it being more built up around Horsforth Station it will cost more to acquire the land so it might not be as cheap an option as it first looks. There was also some slight road improvements to come with the station so it would no longer be just a minor lane.

For the Park & Ride element of it, I'd say looking long term there will be a greater catchment for it. Bramhope is expanding plus proposals for Otley East development what would mean Menston would need a car park expansion anyway (again would be costly due to it being in a built up area),plus giving Otley the choice of the 2 would allow capacity to be shared between the Harrogate & Wharfedale lines (Other parts of the Wharfedale lines are to see housing expansions as well so would be wise to try & offer this station for Otley) plus allow people to P&R for Harrogate/York alongside Leeds. There's also the local catchment for it as well with footpaths planned to Cookridge - maybe a better name for the station might of been 'Cookridge for LBA'.

If they was looking to reduce the costs then the easiest thing would be to look at building it without such a large station building & instead go for something more similar to New Pudsey. Of course the main thing to remember is the idea of this station was an alternative to spending £100M on new link roads to the Airport, so you could say they've already halved the cost while producing more benefits.

We're way off topic here but my opinion is to scrap Leeds Bradford Airport in its entirety and build a new international airport to rival Manchester and Newcastle at the sight of the current 'Leeds East Airport'. It has brilliant potential road links (A1 & A19), a railway line either side of it, plentiful, open flat land, has a large catchment area of West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, York, Hull, East Coast and even up to the North East... and most of all: it isn't built on top of a hill! Of course this all makes far too much sense and it will never happen as so much money is invested in the current airport sight.

[stephen01]

Jul 28, 2023 0:00:23 GMT 1 WYBS said:

Jul 27, 2023 23:51:01 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

The problem with building a bus only road to Horsforth Station (plus presumably also buying the land for a bus interchange) is that due to it being more built up around Horsforth Station it will cost more to acquire the land so it might not be as cheap an option as it first looks. There was also some slight road improvements to come with the station so it would no longer be just a minor lane.

For the Park & Ride element of it, I'd say looking long term there will be a greater catchment for it. Bramhope is expanding plus proposals for Otley East development what would mean Menston would need a car park expansion anyway (again would be costly due to it being in a built up area),plus giving Otley the choice of the 2 would allow capacity to be shared between the Harrogate & Wharfedale lines (Other parts of the Wharfedale lines are to see housing expansions as well so would be wise to try & offer this station for Otley) plus allow people to P&R for Harrogate/York alongside Leeds. There's also the local catchment for it as well with footpaths planned to Cookridge - maybe a better name for the station might of been 'Cookridge for LBA'.

If they was looking to reduce the costs then the easiest thing would be to look at building it without such a large station building & instead go for something more similar to New Pudsey. Of course the main thing to remember is the idea of this station was an alternative to spending £100M on new link roads to the Airport, so you could say they've already halved the cost while producing more benefits.

We're way off topic here but my opinion is to scrap Leeds Bradford Airport in its entirety and build a new international airport to rival Manchester and Newcastle at the sight of the current 'Leeds East Airport'. It has brilliant potential road links (A1 & A19), a railway line either side of it, plentiful, open flat land, has a large catchment area of West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, York, Hull, East Coast and even up to the North East... and most of all: it isn't built on top of a hill! Of course this all makes far too much sense and it will never happen as so much money is invested in the current airport sight.

wont work ad that's where the airport was originally before it got moved to current location which was due to demand with how busy it was. Leeds East is now a private airport/airfield which also is also home to the Police's search plane.

[WYBS]

Jul 28, 2023 0:08:26 GMT 1 stephen01 said:

Jul 28, 2023 0:00:23 GMT 1 WYBS said:

We're way off topic here but my opinion is to scrap Leeds Bradford Airport in its entirety and build a new international airport to rival Manchester and Newcastle at the sight of the current 'Leeds East Airport'. It has brilliant potential road links (A1 & A19), a railway line either side of it, plentiful, open flat land, has a large catchment area of West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, York, Hull, East Coast and even up to the North East... and most of all: it isn't built on top of a hill! Of course this all makes far too much sense and it will never happen as so much money is invested in the current airport sight.

wont work ad that's where the airport was originally before it got moved to current location which was due to demand with how busy it was. Leeds East is now a private airport/airfield which also is also home to the Police's search plane.

Unfortunately not, but with the right investment (as certain other countries manage) it would make a great site.

Has the police plane moved from LBA now? When I was up there a couple of months ago it was operating out of the Multiflight side of the airport.

[stephen01]

Jul 28, 2023 0:13:50 GMT 1 WYBS said:

Jul 28, 2023 0:08:26 GMT 1 stephen01 said:

wont work ad that's where the airport was originally before it got moved to current location which was due to demand with how busy it was. Leeds East is now a private airport/airfield which also is also home to the Police's search plane.

Unfortunately not, but with the right investment (as certain other countries manage) it would make a great site.

Has the police plane moved from LBA now? When I was up there a couple of months ago it was operating out of the Multiflight side of the airport.

unless it's there temporary but it may not last long there as YAA was only there a couple of years.

[WYBS]

Jul 28, 2023 0:18:26 GMT 1 stephen01 said:

Jul 28, 2023 0:13:50 GMT 1 WYBS said:

Unfortunately not, but with the right investment (as certain other countries manage) it would make a great site.

Has the police plane moved from LBA now? When I was up there a couple of months ago it was operating out of the Multiflight side of the airport.

unless it's there temporary but it may not last long there as YAA was only there a couple of years.

It moved there when Doncaster Sheffield closed down
www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/police-aircraft-fleet-departs-doncaster-sheffield-airport-for-leeds-bradford-3920324

[Deleted]

Jul 28, 2023 0:00:23 GMT 1 WYBS said:

Jul 27, 2023 23:51:01 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

The problem with building a bus only road to Horsforth Station (plus presumably also buying the land for a bus interchange) is that due to it being more built up around Horsforth Station it will cost more to acquire the land so it might not be as cheap an option as it first looks. There was also some slight road improvements to come with the station so it would no longer be just a minor lane.

For the Park & Ride element of it, I'd say looking long term there will be a greater catchment for it. Bramhope is expanding plus proposals for Otley East development what would mean Menston would need a car park expansion anyway (again would be costly due to it being in a built up area),plus giving Otley the choice of the 2 would allow capacity to be shared between the Harrogate & Wharfedale lines (Other parts of the Wharfedale lines are to see housing expansions as well so would be wise to try & offer this station for Otley) plus allow people to P&R for Harrogate/York alongside Leeds. There's also the local catchment for it as well with footpaths planned to Cookridge - maybe a better name for the station might of been 'Cookridge for LBA'.

If they was looking to reduce the costs then the easiest thing would be to look at building it without such a large station building & instead go for something more similar to New Pudsey. Of course the main thing to remember is the idea of this station was an alternative to spending £100M on new link roads to the Airport, so you could say they've already halved the cost while producing more benefits.

We're way off topic here but my opinion is to scrap Leeds Bradford Airport in its entirety and build a new international airport to rival Manchester and Newcastle at the sight of the current 'Leeds East Airport'. It has brilliant potential road links (A1 & A19), a railway line either side of it, plentiful, open flat land, has a large catchment area of West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, York, Hull, East Coast and even up to the North East... and most of all: it isn't built on top of a hill! Of course this all makes far too much sense and it will never happen as so much money is invested in the current airport sight.

Agreed this is far off topic, but over your idea I'm in two minds over something like this. Whilst I do agree the current LBA sight is not ideal & Leeds East would of been the best site at the time they actually made the decision I Question at a time when we should be looking to reduce air travel for climate reasons if a new larger Airport is the best thing, rather than improving rail links (both within UK & across the channel) allowing the current larger airports to be used more efficiently & possibly reduce the overall number of airports in England - of course it be political suicide for any party to suggest such a thing.