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Post by allrounder on Jun 30, 2023 13:16:25 GMT 1
I am not sure if this is okay to post as it technically isnt West Yorkshire - if not then please delete with my apologies. Public Inquiry (88108) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 7 September 2023 commencing at 10:00 PC0001838 SN ROSSENDALE TRANSPORT LTD Director(s): VITTORIO PIZZUTI, PAUL TURNER, HENRI ROHARD, ANDREW BROWN C/O TRANSDEV BLAZEFIELD LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 & S155 Transport Act 2000 Attachments:
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Jun 30, 2023 17:54:22 GMT 1
That's never a good sign
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Post by northerner on Jun 30, 2023 21:48:01 GMT 1
Interesting, hope the Traffic Commissioners are monitoring the rest of Transdev Blazefield. Keighley in particular has a problem with drivers ignoring timing points and going off route when running late
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Jul 1, 2023 1:41:50 GMT 1
Hopefully there will be an investigation into Harrogate too. Yesterday (Friday), the 17:20 Harrogate to Wetherby 7 service was still sitting at the bus station at 17:55, lifeless and driverless, even though it was not shown as cancelled. The 18:20 was apparently running, but then there was no service until 20:20.
S.155 (1)(a) relates to the failure to operate a local service. They seem to fail often.
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rs
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Post by rs on Jul 1, 2023 10:22:11 GMT 1
I am not sure if this is okay to post as it technically isnt West Yorkshire - if not then please delete with my apologies. Public Inquiry (88108) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 7 September 2023 commencing at 10:00 PC0001838 SN ROSSENDALE TRANSPORT LTD Director(s): VITTORIO PIZZUTI, PAUL TURNER, HENRI ROHARD, ANDREW BROWN C/O TRANSDEV BLAZEFIELD LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 & S155 Transport Act 2000 S155 relates to failure to operate registered local bus services - weren't they the operator cancelling vast chunks of evening mileage some months back? Unfortunately they still are at various depots, not sure why only Rosso is involved. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 1, 2023 10:24:43 GMT 1
This is going to be one of those threads isn’t it…
There hasn’t been a generic Transdev rant thread for at least two weeks
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Post by gledhill56 on Jul 1, 2023 11:00:28 GMT 1
This is going to be one of those threads isn’t it… There hasn’t been a generic Transdev rant thread for at least two weeks And it didn’t take long before the chief of the Transdev renters, lucyp, joined in. |
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 1, 2023 11:58:07 GMT 1
IIRC there were a number of issues when Rochdale took on some additional services way before the current national driver shortage. If they are going to investigate non-running of services due to that shortage they are going to have to investigate most operators with, for example, TrentBarton high on the list.
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 1, 2023 12:42:25 GMT 1
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Jul 1, 2023 20:54:56 GMT 1
Hopefully there will be an investigation into Harrogate too. Yesterday (Friday), the 17:20 Harrogate to Wetherby 7 service was still sitting at the bus station at 17:55, lifeless and driverless, even though it was not shown as cancelled. The 18:20 was apparently running, but then there was no service until 20:20. S.155 (1)(a) relates to the failure to operate a local service. They seem to fail often. Have you contacted them at all? |
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Jul 2, 2023 0:46:20 GMT 1
And that's the problem with relying on technology SCH117X!
The bus to which i referred did not arrive at 17:45. It was on the stand before 17:20, lifeless. The bus that arrived from Leeds at 17:45 and had to park on the stand used by the 36 presumably would form the 18:20 to Leeds. The board was showing no bus at 19:20, and the next bus after 18:20 to be the one at 20:20.
deerfold - They never reply to the email address that is shown in the buses, let alone provide a free journey ticket if you are not happy. They don't reply to tweets either, unless you say how "amazing" they are.
Of course they don't. They just like to pretend that it's all about "amazing", and "award winning"; or what features do passengers want on new buses. They never mention PO55 PYP being used in the last 2 weeks on the 36 and X99. I thought that it was just pulling up dust from the road, until I realised it was smoke from the exhaust. I think it's onto it's 2nd engine by now, but that has probably done 1 million miles. It's hilarious when it says "Welcome to Sky Class". Perhaps they are referring to the smog that it creates! Although at least it runs and the USB's still work, has more power, and it rattles less than the real "Sky Class".
They are not going to listen to me are they? They are being taken to a public enquiry in Lancashire. That is how bad things have become. It is what you expect of an Arthur Daley style operator with 2 or 3 buses at most, not a PLC, and there will have been meetings, and warnings, and opportunities to improve previously. The system doesn't just jump straight to a public enquiry as a sanction.
Public enquiries are for Grenfell disasters; press intrusion; the government's response to Covid. They are extremely serious enquiries, for extremely serious matters. That is what it has come to with Transdev. Perhaps it will be a wake up call, and they will now focus on being a bus company, running bus services, and on time, rather than being a marketing agency, or perhaps it will lead to disposal of all or parts of the business.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Jul 2, 2023 0:51:07 GMT 1
I don't know if they'll listen to you.
I phoned them about various issues and was given various direct email addresses.
They didn't do everything I suggested but they did do some of them and replied fairly comprehensively to several emails.
There's more than one type of Public Inquiry. This one won't take years and hear evidence from hundreds of people. I'm hoping you didn't really think this was the type they were facing. If you did, I'd suggest looking through past issues of Notices and Proceedings to see that they're not uncommon.
Clearly not a good thing, but not in the area you're talking about.
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 2, 2023 8:55:58 GMT 1
And that's the problem with relying on technology SCH117X! The bus to which i referred did not arrive at 17:45. It was on the stand before 17:20, lifeless. The bus that arrived from Leeds at 17:45 and had to park on the stand used by the 36 presumably would form the 18:20 to Leeds. The board was showing no bus at 19:20, and the next bus after 18:20 to be the one at 20:20. If your claim re the 1720 is right then maybe their needs to be a separate thread on Real Time Tracking being wrong. What about Connexions 1730 1755 X70 - where did that run from and could you not have caught that? Maybe the 1720 did the same. Real time displays may skip displaying a working until the bus operating it becomes active. Just noticed Connexions last X70 - the 1830 was tracked as leaving two minutes early - not good |
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Post by northerner on Jul 2, 2023 10:27:28 GMT 1
IIRC there were a number of issues when Rochdale took on some additional services way before the current national driver shortage. If they are going to investigate non-running of services due to that shortage they are going to have to investigate most operators with, for example, TrentBarton high on the list. Didn't Rosso also win contracts despite already being short of drivers, then cancelled a significant number of those contracted journeys? The responsible thing to do would be reduce your network to match the available resources. From what I understood, Traffic Commissioners have shown some degree of leniency with the national driver shortage, which is why public enquiries are still relatively rare, so Rosso must be a particularly poor performing operation for things to have progressed this far. Operators who don't run their services in accordance with their registrations quite rightly should be held to account. |
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rs
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Post by rs on Jul 2, 2023 10:46:34 GMT 1
IIRC there were a number of issues when Rochdale took on some additional services way before the current national driver shortage. If they are going to investigate non-running of services due to that shortage they are going to have to investigate most operators with, for example, TrentBarton high on the list. Didn't Rosso also win contracts despite already being short of drivers, then cancelled a significant number of those contracted journeys? The responsible thing to do would be reduce your network to match the available resources. From what I understood, Traffic Commissioners have shown some degree of leniency with the national driver shortage, which is why public enquiries are still relatively rare, so Rosso must be a particularly poor performing operation for things to have progressed this far. Operators who don't run their services in accordance with their registrations quite rightly should be held to account. The Ribble Country and Little Hotline routes in Burnley and Preston were all on Rosso's license, despite appearing to be Burnley and Blackburn routes. Like you say those contracts were taken on whilst they were already short of drivers and were for the entirety of them running the routes. I don't think a day went by when there wasn't at least one cancellation on those services. |
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Username
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Post by Username on Jul 2, 2023 11:34:42 GMT 1
And that's the problem with relying on technology SCH117X! The bus to which i referred did not arrive at 17:45. It was on the stand before 17:20, lifeless. The bus that arrived from Leeds at 17:45 and had to park on the stand used by the 36 presumably would form the 18:20 to Leeds. The board was showing no bus at 19:20, and the next bus after 18:20 to be the one at 20:20. deerfold - They never reply to the email address that is shown in the buses, let alone provide a free journey ticket if you are not happy. They don't reply to tweets either, unless you say how "amazing" they are. Of course they don't. They just like to pretend that it's all about "amazing", and "award winning"; or what features do passengers want on new buses. They never mention PO55 PYP being used in the last 2 weeks on the 36 and X99. I thought that it was just pulling up dust from the road, until I realised it was smoke from the exhaust. I think it's onto it's 2nd engine by now, but that has probably done 1 million miles. It's hilarious when it says "Welcome to Sky Class". Perhaps they are referring to the smog that it creates! Although at least it runs and the USB's still work, has more power, and it rattles less than the real "Sky Class". They are not going to listen to me are they? They are being taken to a public enquiry in Lancashire. That is how bad things have become. It is what you expect of an Arthur Daley style operator with 2 or 3 buses at most, not a PLC, and there will have been meetings, and warnings, and opportunities to improve previously. The system doesn't just jump straight to a public enquiry as a sanction. Public enquiries are for Grenfell disasters; press intrusion; the government's response to Covid. They are extremely serious enquiries, for extremely serious matters. That is what it has come to with Transdev. Perhaps it will be a wake up call, and they will now focus on being a bus company, running bus services, and on time, rather than being a marketing agency, or perhaps it will lead to disposal of all or parts of the business. That's the problem with lying, you will look like a fool when proven wrong. |
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Jul 2, 2023 13:58:12 GMT 1
Arriva did something similar at Heckmondwike, doubling the frequency of the 229 from Huddersfield (from every 30 to every 15) during the peak of the shortage where's their investigation? (Joking)
I actually feel like they did the right decision picking up those routes during the height of the shortage. Areas left unserved would've found an alternative means of transport, probably a car, and by the time the driver shortage eased the routes would've probably been too unsustainable to run. I genuinely think the choice to pick up those routes minimised permanent damage to the bus network.
An unreliable bus route is substantially better than no bus route.
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Post by steve440 on Jul 2, 2023 15:05:01 GMT 1
I am not sure if this is okay to post as it technically isnt West Yorkshire - if not then please delete with my apologies. Public Inquiry (88108) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 7 September 2023 commencing at 10:00 PC0001838 SN ROSSENDALE TRANSPORT LTD Director(s): VITTORIO PIZZUTI, PAUL TURNER, HENRI ROHARD, ANDREW BROWN C/O TRANSDEV BLAZEFIELD LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 & S155 Transport Act 2000 If Rosso have their VA reduced as a result of this then all they have to do is de-register some Rochdale & Bury routes as they are losing them in April 2024 anyway. |
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rs
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Post by rs on Jul 2, 2023 16:27:15 GMT 1
I am not sure if this is okay to post as it technically isnt West Yorkshire - if not then please delete with my apologies. Public Inquiry (88108) to be held at The Public Inquiry Room (Warrington), WA3 2SH, Suite 4, Stone Cross Place, Stone Cross Lane North, Golborne, Warrington, on 7 September 2023 commencing at 10:00 PC0001838 SN ROSSENDALE TRANSPORT LTD Director(s): VITTORIO PIZZUTI, PAUL TURNER, HENRI ROHARD, ANDREW BROWN C/O TRANSDEV BLAZEFIELD LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 & S155 Transport Act 2000 If Rosso have their VA reduced as a result of this then all they have to do is de-register some Rochdale & Bury routes as they are losing them in April 2024 anyway. It could possibly be the end of Rosso 'as is' when the routes go next April. The 464 and Irwell Line are already registered as Blackburn and/or Burnley services, and what little remains of the Rosso work out of those depots could easily be transferred - I think there's only the Rawtenstall local work and the Bacup services left, happy to be corrected. The only issue would be the staff still on 'Rosso wages', which are lower than Burnley and Blackburns wages. |
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Post by northerner on Jul 2, 2023 21:49:57 GMT 1
Arriva did something similar at Heckmondwike, doubling the frequency of the 229 from Huddersfield (from every 30 to every 15) during the peak of the shortage where's their investigation? (Joking) I actually feel like they did the right decision picking up those routes during the height of the shortage. Areas left unserved would've found an alternative means of transport, probably a car, and by the time the driver shortage eased the routes would've probably been too unsustainable to run. I genuinely think the choice to pick up those routes minimised permanent damage to the bus network. An unreliable bus route is substantially better than no bus route. Unreliable services can also cause a decline in passenger numbers though. If your bus route wasn't high frequency, and there were daily cancellations as has been posted upthread, would you really risk the bus if you had access to other modes? |
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Jul 4, 2023 19:13:08 GMT 1
Arriva did something similar at Heckmondwike, doubling the frequency of the 229 from Huddersfield (from every 30 to every 15) during the peak of the shortage where's their investigation? (Joking) I actually feel like they did the right decision picking up those routes during the height of the shortage. Areas left unserved would've found an alternative means of transport, probably a car, and by the time the driver shortage eased the routes would've probably been too unsustainable to run. I genuinely think the choice to pick up those routes minimised permanent damage to the bus network. An unreliable bus route is substantially better than no bus route. Unreliable services can also cause a decline in passenger numbers though. If your bus route wasn't high frequency, and there were daily cancellations as has been posted upthread, would you really risk the bus if you had access to other modes? An unreliable bus route certainly causes a decline but leaving an area unserved and picking up a bus route two years later (or more since the driver shortage is still ongoing) simply wouldn't work. People car free would simply get a car, and once that happens it is almost impossible to undo that kind of damage. Since a lot of those routes don't suffer from much traffic congestion, you can't really reverse the damage with bus priority measured either. |
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