LukePA
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www.grandcentralrail.com
Posts: 219
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Post by LukePA on Nov 30, 2022 18:11:24 GMT 1
From BusTimes
Arriva Yorkshire from 08/01/23:
229 - Route Change 254 - Route Change 255 - Route Change 444 - Route Change 446 - Route Change
Globe Holidays from 02/01/23:
39 - Timetable Changes
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Post by deerfold on Nov 30, 2022 18:42:53 GMT 1
From BusTimes Arriva Yorkshire: 229 - Route Change 254 - Route Change 255 - Route Change 444 - Route Change 446 - Route Change Globe Holidays: 39 - Timetable Changes Any particular date?
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LukePA
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www.grandcentralrail.com
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Post by LukePA on Nov 30, 2022 18:47:11 GMT 1
From BusTimes Arriva Yorkshire: 229 - Route Change 254 - Route Change 255 - Route Change 444 - Route Change 446 - Route Change Globe Holidays: 39 - Timetable Changes Any particular date? Edited sorry thought I put the date 😆
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Post by andyk4050 on Nov 30, 2022 18:50:17 GMT 1
From BusTimes Arriva Yorkshire from 08/01/23: 229 - Route Change 254 - Route Change 255 - Route Change 444 - Route Change 446 - Route Change Globe Holidays from 02/01/23: 39 - Timetable Changes Guess the arriva changes will be for the new routes through Leeds when buses wil go on Infirmary Street both directions
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Post by Penfold on Nov 30, 2022 20:15:43 GMT 1
From BusTimes Arriva Yorkshire from 08/01/23: 229 - Route Change 254 - Route Change 255 - Route Change 444 - Route Change 446 - Route Change Globe Holidays from 02/01/23: 39 - Timetable Changes I can see some re-routing on 444/6 around Rothwell again ! penfold
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Post by stantheman on Dec 4, 2022 8:11:24 GMT 1
From BusTimes Arriva Yorkshire from 08/01/23: 229 - Route Change 254 - Route Change 255 - Route Change 444 - Route Change 446 - Route Change Globe Holidays from 02/01/23: 39 - Timetable Changes I can see some re-routing on 444/6 around Rothwell again ! penfold The 446 route in Rothwell is ridiculous, and the 444 loop round that Estate in Rothwell is a pain.
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jc
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Posts: 431
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Post by jc on Dec 9, 2022 14:18:49 GMT 1
We now have clarity on York changes after the paper reported a while back the 11 might be withdrawn to Bishopthorpe 10 to 40 min frequency 11 to 45 min frequency 12/12a withdrawn - Looking for a replacement operator Looking at the timetable it seems the 12a is being operated as 60 min round trip with 3-4 min turnaround at Piccadilly and Woodthorpe with no peak variation though maybe the Tadcaster road bus lane helps mitigate delays. Also explains why it doesn't run via Askham Bar tesco leaving it with a less useful 60 min service from Woodthorpe. I also fear the 10/11 could go the same way with the frequency reduction but wouldn't want to speculate too far. I guess there needs to be more money in the pot to help retain drivers through service tenders. www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/23179759.first-york-says-number-12-service-hit-fewer-passengers/
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SF07
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Post by SF07 on Dec 9, 2022 16:23:39 GMT 1
From Metro: 2 Middleton • Hunslet • Leeds • Chapel Allerton • Roundhay ParkSun 1 January 2023 Operated by First On weekdays, the 1532 Middleton to Roundhay Park journey will start from Hunslet Hall Road at 1551. 19 Ireland Wood • Leeds • GarforthSun 1 January 2023 Operated by First On weekdays, the 1307 Ireland Wood to Garforth Academy journey will extend to Garforth Inverness Road arriving at 1432. 39 39B South Elmsall • Upton • Low Ackworth • PontefractMon 2 January 2023 Operated by Globe Holidays Additional journeys will run at 0755 Upton to Pontefract (Mon-Fri), 1435 South Elmsall to Pontefract and 1520 Pontefract to South Elmsall. The 1320 Pontefract to South Elmsall journey will be retimed to run 30 minutes later and some other journeys will be retimed by around 5 minutes. The 0600 South Hiendley to Pontefract journey (39B) will be rerouted via Low Ackworth between Thorpe Audlin and Pontefract. 47 Leeds • Middleton • East Ardsley • Morley • Cottingley • White Rose CentreSun 1 January 2023 Operated by First On weekdays, an additional journey will operate at 1356 from Leeds to White Rose Centre. 56 Whinmoor • Swarcliffe • Leeds • Moor GrangeSun 1 January 2023 Operated by First On weekdays, the 0834 Swarcliffe to Moor Grange journey will start back from Whinmoor at 0824. 60 Keighley • Bingley • Shipley • LeedsSun 8 January 2023 Operated by The Keighley Bus Company Minor route change in Leeds City Centre due to the pedestrianisation and road layout change of Leeds City Square. 81 Leeds • PudseyMon 2 January 2023 Operated by Squarepeg Minor route change in Leeds City Centre due to the pedestrianisation and road layout change of Leeds City Square. 96 Wakefield • Yorkshire Sculpture Park • BarnsleyMon 2 January 2023 Operated by Globe Holidays During winter time, journeys after 1700 will no longer run into Yorkshire Sculpture Park. 183 Wakefield • Normanton • Castleford • Junction 32 • PontefractMon 2 January 2023 Operated by Globe Holidays This service, which operates a single morning journey, will be withdrawn due to extremely low usage. Alternative services operate within 15 minutes on the majority of the route. 229 Leeds • Gildersome • Birstall • Heckmondwike • Roberttown • HuddersfieldSun 8 January 2023 Operated by Arriva Minor route change in Leeds City Centre due to the pedestrianisation and road layout change of Leeds City Square. 249 Pontefract • UptonMon 2 January 2023 Operated by Watersons Most journeys will be retimed by up to 5 minutes. The 1359 Pontefract to Upton will be retimed to 1420, and the 1521 Upton to Pontefract will be retimed to 1504. 254 255 Leeds • Drighlington • Cleckheaton • Scholes • Brighouse / HalifaxSun 8 January 2023 Operated by Arriva Minor route change in Leeds City Centre due to the pedestrianisation and road layout change of Leeds City Square. 444 446 Leeds • Rothwell • Stanley • Pinderfields • WakefieldSun 8 January 2023 Operated by Arriva Minor route change in Leeds City Centre due to the pedestrianisation and road layout change of Leeds City Square. A1 Leeds Bradford Airport • LeedsSun 8 January 2023 Operated by Yorkshire Coastliner Minor route change in Leeds City Centre due to the pedestrianisation and road layout change of Leeds City Square. wymetro.com/media/9152/public-transport-changes-10-dec-2022.pdf
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Post by stevieinselby on Dec 9, 2022 22:30:54 GMT 1
We now have clarity on York changes after the paper reported a while back the 11 might be withdrawn to Bishopthorpe 10 to 40 min frequency 11 to 45 min frequency 12/12a withdrawn - Looking for a replacement operator Looking at the timetable it seems the 12a is being operated as 60 min round trip with 3-4 min turnaround at Piccadilly and Woodthorpe with no peak variation though maybe the Tadcaster road bus lane helps mitigate delays. Also explains why it doesn't run via Askham Bar tesco leaving it with a less useful 60 min service from Woodthorpe. I also fear the 10/11 could go the same way with the frequency reduction but wouldn't want to speculate too far. I guess there needs to be more money in the pot to help retain drivers through service tenders. www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/23179759.first-york-says-number-12-service-hit-fewer-passengers/The 12/12A has suffered over the years from not being timetabled for passenger convenience. Pre-Covid, it typically ran at an unhelpful 35-minute frequency, because the end-to-end journey time was a smidgeon over an hour, and so 4 buses couldn't maintain a reliable 30-minute frequency, but the 5 buses needed to do that were seen as having too much layover time and being an inefficient use of resources, so it suffered from an unmemorable timetable that didn't help to encourage ridership. The service now only runs round the Woodthorpe loop on the way into York, in order to allow 2 buses to run the full route hourly, and one bus to run the 12A hourly. Which is bizarre, because I would have thought that the journey from York (or Tesco) would be when passengers would be more likely to have luggage, or just to be tired, and when a service round the loop would be more helpful than when they are leaving home fresh and unencumbered. And in order to keep the 12A to time, it doesn't serve Tesco in either direction. If the 10 and 11 go to odd frequencies as well, I would expect their ridership to suffer as well.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Dec 10, 2022 0:44:05 GMT 1
Re York Frequency reductions...
The fact that 40/45 min frequencies are even a thing is ridiculous. May aswell reduce to hourly and run a clockface timetable at the same time every hour and that's reliable. It's been proven time and time again that random odd minutes and oddly constructed timetables reduce passenger numbers.
When I did my scheduling training there was an example of this exact thing, a bus service that ran every 22 minutes because "it's the best thing to do because it's the highest frequency" this was changed as an experiment to every 30 minutes with no random odd minutes... and passenger numbers increased. So a service that was costing money then made money because of a simple timetable, if only this was a priority then maybe passengers will return when their bus service runs a regular memorable timetable instead of messing around with apps and timetables for every journey they wish to make!
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jc
Forum Member
Posts: 431
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Post by jc on Dec 10, 2022 0:55:59 GMT 1
We now have clarity on York changes after the paper reported a while back the 11 might be withdrawn to Bishopthorpe 10 to 40 min frequency 11 to 45 min frequency 12/12a withdrawn - Looking for a replacement operator Looking at the timetable it seems the 12a is being operated as 60 min round trip with 3-4 min turnaround at Piccadilly and Woodthorpe with no peak variation though maybe the Tadcaster road bus lane helps mitigate delays. Also explains why it doesn't run via Askham Bar tesco leaving it with a less useful 60 min service from Woodthorpe. I also fear the 10/11 could go the same way with the frequency reduction but wouldn't want to speculate too far. I guess there needs to be more money in the pot to help retain drivers through service tenders. www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/23179759.first-york-says-number-12-service-hit-fewer-passengers/The 12/12A has suffered over the years from not being timetabled for passenger convenience. Pre-Covid, it typically ran at an unhelpful 35-minute frequency, because the end-to-end journey time was a smidgeon over an hour, and so 4 buses couldn't maintain a reliable 30-minute frequency, but the 5 buses needed to do that were seen as having too much layover time and being an inefficient use of resources, so it suffered from an unmemorable timetable that didn't help to encourage ridership. The service now only runs round the Woodthorpe loop on the way into York, in order to allow 2 buses to run the full route hourly, and one bus to run the 12A hourly. Which is bizarre, because I would have thought that the journey from York (or Tesco) would be when passengers would be more likely to have luggage, or just to be tired, and when a service round the loop would be more helpful than when they are leaving home fresh and unencumbered. And in order to keep the 12A to time, it doesn't serve Tesco in either direction. If the 10 and 11 go to odd frequencies as well, I would expect their ridership to suffer as well. I suspect it is to do with catching the bus in the 'right direction for town' even if you have to deviate on the return journey. It's the same formula in Bishopthorpe (Maple Ave) and I believe Copmanthorpe when First ran the 13. The Foxwood extension on the 12 has always confused me a little. If you're living within a few minutes walk of Foxwood Lane you'll get the 4. From Bellhouse Way there are paths through to Ryecroft Ave taking ~5 mins. There are areas of Alness Drive that are further to walk, but unless you're trying to attract through passengers to Acomb I can't see the rationale of going all the way to Foxwood.
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joseph
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Posts: 1,139
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Post by joseph on Dec 10, 2022 6:47:01 GMT 1
Going off topic but what I don't understand is why people in urban areas feel the need for clockface timetables and are too lazy to consult an actual timetable where as people in rural areas have no issue looking at their timetable? You don't see people in Settle saying 'sod the train, I'll drive instead cos the timetable isn't memorable'.
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mattb7tl
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Streetlites 🛐
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Post by mattb7tl on Dec 10, 2022 10:39:33 GMT 1
Going off topic but what I don't understand is why people in urban areas feel the need for clockface timetables and are too lazy to consult an actual timetable where as people in rural areas have no issue looking at their timetable? You don't see people in Settle saying 'sod the train, I'll drive instead cos the timetable isn't memorable'. There are more options available in an urban area. Taxis and Uber's are very quick to get to your location. Probably managing to get to you quicker than than for the most frequent bus services in the region... which is extremely concerning.
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Dec 10, 2022 10:57:53 GMT 1
Going off topic but what I don't understand is why people in urban areas feel the need for clockface timetables and are too lazy to consult an actual timetable where as people in rural areas have no issue looking at their timetable? You don't see people in Settle saying 'sod the train, I'll drive instead cos the timetable isn't memorable'. Don't people just use live tracking data to time their trip to the bus stop, or is that just me?
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Post by stevieinselby on Dec 10, 2022 18:07:45 GMT 1
I suspect it is to do with catching the bus in the 'right direction for town' even if you have to deviate on the return journey. It's the same formula in Bishopthorpe (Maple Ave) and I believe Copmanthorpe when First ran the 13. The Foxwood extension on the 12 has always confused me a little. If you're living within a few minutes walk of Foxwood Lane you'll get the 4. From Bellhouse Way there are paths through to Ryecroft Ave taking ~5 mins. There are areas of Alness Drive that are further to walk, but unless you're trying to attract through passengers to Acomb I can't see the rationale of going all the way to Foxwood. The route around Bishopthorpe is effectively a balloon loop that's been pinched – if you're travelling to Maple Avenue then the deviation round Keble Park doesn't appreciably extend your journey, it isn't as like Woodthorpe where it adds 12 minutes to go all the way round Bellhouse Way and back. I'm not sure why the 12 runs to Foxwood but the fact that it does and that First haven't shortened it to the Moor Lane turn (as it used to more than 10 years ago) suggests that it is worth sacrificing a decent timetable for. Whether there are enough people on Alness Drive and Bellhouse Way who would struggle to walk to Moor Lane or Foxwood Lane, or whether it's to provide a connection between Foxwood and Askham Bar Tesco/York College, or a combination of both, I'm not sure.
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Post by stevieinselby on Dec 10, 2022 18:18:55 GMT 1
Going off topic but what I don't understand is why people in urban areas feel the need for clockface timetables and are too lazy to consult an actual timetable where as people in rural areas have no issue looking at their timetable? You don't see people in Settle saying 'sod the train, I'll drive instead cos the timetable isn't memorable'. Most people in rural areas DO say "sod the bus/train, I can't be bothered to work around an infrequent and irregular service, I'll just drive because it's easier and more convenient". Where there is only enough demand for an infrequent service then obviously there won't be a clockface timetable. That will inevitably deter some passengers, but it's also quite simple. If there are only 5 buses a day then there are only 5 times that you need to remember, so if you use the service regularly then you'll fairly quickly get to know what times they are. But if there are more frequent buses, say 2 or 3 an hour, then that's obviously a lot more times to memorise, and at that level of service then it should be possible to give a regular-interval timetable that makes it easier for passengers to use. And guess what, if you make it easier to use then more people will use it.
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joseph
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Posts: 1,139
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Post by joseph on Dec 10, 2022 20:18:57 GMT 1
Going off topic but what I don't understand is why people in urban areas feel the need for clockface timetables and are too lazy to consult an actual timetable where as people in rural areas have no issue looking at their timetable? You don't see people in Settle saying 'sod the train, I'll drive instead cos the timetable isn't memorable'. Most people in rural areas DO say "sod the bus/train, I can't be bothered to work around an infrequent and irregular service, I'll just drive because it's easier and more convenient". Where there is only enough demand for an infrequent service then obviously there won't be a clockface timetable. That will inevitably deter some passengers, but it's also quite simple. If there are only 5 buses a day then there are only 5 times that you need to remember, so if you use the service regularly then you'll fairly quickly get to know what times they are. But if there are more frequent buses, say 2 or 3 an hour, then that's obviously a lot more times to memorise, and at that level of service then it should be possible to give a regular-interval timetable that makes it easier for passengers to use. And guess what, if you make it easier to use then more people will use it. Trains from Settle to Skipton and stations in between are very well used by locals, so too is the 580, locals not travelling on a regular train defo need to consult a timetable for the train/bus in those areas with different weekend times/frequency for the bus and all sorts of times for the train. Can't honestly see the problem with consulting a timetable first, I did this morning as I had a hunch service 1 would be less frequent around half 6 and I was right, so I looked up an alternative service's timetable in case I missed it. Timetables seem to put the fear of god into urbanites lol.
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Post by rwilkes on Dec 10, 2022 20:49:03 GMT 1
a timetable which is simple to remember gets more passengers, so it is best to do that unless it is too expensive as with many lightly used routes
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Dec 10, 2022 22:30:41 GMT 1
Assuming most arriva changes will be the times as mentioned on the official arriva website which are yet to be published?
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Post by deerfold on Dec 11, 2022 16:35:58 GMT 1
Most people in rural areas DO say "sod the bus/train, I can't be bothered to work around an infrequent and irregular service, I'll just drive because it's easier and more convenient". Where there is only enough demand for an infrequent service then obviously there won't be a clockface timetable. That will inevitably deter some passengers, but it's also quite simple. If there are only 5 buses a day then there are only 5 times that you need to remember, so if you use the service regularly then you'll fairly quickly get to know what times they are. But if there are more frequent buses, say 2 or 3 an hour, then that's obviously a lot more times to memorise, and at that level of service then it should be possible to give a regular-interval timetable that makes it easier for passengers to use. And guess what, if you make it easier to use then more people will use it. Trains from Settle to Skipton and stations in between are very well used by locals, so too is the 580, locals not travelling on a regular train defo need to consult a timetable for the train/bus in those areas with different weekend times/frequency for the bus and all sorts of times for the train. Can't honestly see the problem with consulting a timetable first, I did this morning as I had a hunch service 1 would be less frequent around half 6 and I was right, so I looked up an alternative service's timetable in case I missed it. Timetables seem to put the fear of god into urbanites lol. Most journeys on the 580 are on a clockface ticetable (9 of 10 from Skipton, 7 of 10 to Skipton).
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Dec 12, 2022 9:31:07 GMT 1
Most people in rural areas DO say "sod the bus/train, I can't be bothered to work around an infrequent and irregular service, I'll just drive because it's easier and more convenient". Where there is only enough demand for an infrequent service then obviously there won't be a clockface timetable. That will inevitably deter some passengers, but it's also quite simple. If there are only 5 buses a day then there are only 5 times that you need to remember, so if you use the service regularly then you'll fairly quickly get to know what times they are. But if there are more frequent buses, say 2 or 3 an hour, then that's obviously a lot more times to memorise, and at that level of service then it should be possible to give a regular-interval timetable that makes it easier for passengers to use. And guess what, if you make it easier to use then more people will use it. Trains from Settle to Skipton and stations in between are very well used by locals, so too is the 580, locals not travelling on a regular train defo need to consult a timetable for the train/bus in those areas with different weekend times/frequency for the bus and all sorts of times for the train. Can't honestly see the problem with consulting a timetable first, I did this morning as I had a hunch service 1 would be less frequent around half 6 and I was right, so I looked up an alternative service's timetable in case I missed it. Timetables seem to put the fear of god into urbanites lol. Timetables put the "fear of god" into many people, it's just that in rural areas those passengers will never consider public transport as they need to look at a timetable (and/or "it doesn't run when I want it" as it only runs once an hour) but in urban networks with higher frequencies they don't need to. Essentially this discussion is a function of frequency & distance, if demand is enough to support a frequency of hourly or better then an easy to remember clockface timetable should be default (even if a slightly lower frequency) as it is easier to market, easier to remember, easier to operate and so will attract those users who struggle with reading traditional timetables for no extra effort who will be put off by needing to always double-check your times every time you want to go out. On lower frequency services, like many rural networks, the total potential demand would struggle to get the frequency to the point where the service can tick those boxes so you have to provide the most trips for the least resource which may result in an uneven timetable but lower operating costs to compensate for the limiting of potential demand. The longer the distance being travelled, again the more likely people are going to expect to check timetables, if doing a short hop into town you would expect a simpler timetable than a long cross country run.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Dec 19, 2022 22:16:00 GMT 1
Noticed the 29 has been cancelled on bus times from 23rd Jan, however when I've clicked on it to see if it's being replaced it down as a route amendment with an interesting start and finish point, Hunslet Shopping Centre to Hyde Park Student Village!
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Post by martinsfp on Dec 20, 2022 1:54:43 GMT 1
Noticed the 29 has been cancelled on bus times from 23rd Jan, however when I've clicked on it to see if it's being replaced it down as a route amendment with an interesting start and finish point, Hunslet Shopping Centre to Hyde Park Student Village! Is there even a Student Village (the student accommodation brand) in Hyde Park? A search doesn't bring anything up.
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Post by leeds rider on Dec 20, 2022 13:58:57 GMT 1
The registration actually gives an end point of "Hyde Park & Student Village". It depends on how literally you interpret this - the accommodation opposite the Dry Dock, for example, is officially Central Village, but not really Hyde Park, and terminating there would effectively mean curtailing the route by one stop. On the other hand, an extension via St Marks Road, Servia Hill, Servia Road (a previously bus-served route) could reach the bus stop by the entrance to Leodis (which is technically a student village, just not a Student Village!). There's no opportunity to turn here, so, given the "Hyde Park" part of the destination, a loop via, say, Woodhouse Street and Rampart Road looks most likely; theoretically, other routes would be possible, passing several other student residences on the way (such as Trinity Halls, St Marks, and Hello). But I'm massively wild-guessing, and will be very interested to see what actually emerges.
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Post by jonny182 on Dec 20, 2022 19:37:02 GMT 1
Noticed the 29 has been cancelled on bus times from 23rd Jan, however when I've clicked on it to see if it's being replaced it down as a route amendment with an interesting start and finish point, Hunslet Shopping Centre to Hyde Park Student Village! Is there even a Student Village (the student accommodation brand) in Hyde Park? A search doesn't bring anything up. That is interesting. This would certainly be very useful for me if(?!) the new route also served Hunslet Shopping Ctr.
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