joseph
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Post by joseph on Nov 27, 2022 1:32:27 GMT 1
When service 1 misses Leeds bound from Beeston, I often find myself shuttling down for the PR1 (the 51 and 52 can be just as unreliable as the 1 so don't chance these) however the PR1 seems to be getting worse, with big gaps between journeys during the morning peak. This is totally down to traffic approaching Leeds, bearing this in mind, isn't it about time the PR1 was changed to terminate outside Asda running straight back to Elland Road from there? Beats waiting half an hour in the rain as nobody wants to risk losing their place in the queue.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 27, 2022 10:17:38 GMT 1
You’re expecting shoppers to walk to Asda to catch the bus? They might as well walk all the way to Elland Road
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Nov 27, 2022 10:37:55 GMT 1
You’re expecting shoppers to walk to Asda to catch the bus? They might as well walk all the way to Elland Road Takes on average 33 minutes to walk from Elland Road to Asda house, not sure many want to do that in the rain never mind cold or even hot weather with practically no shelter along the way and a very dodgy walk through part of Holbeck. The worse the PR1 gets, the less appealing it will be with people joining the queue of traffic instead as at least they'll be warm with access to entertainment in comfort. People are already getting fed up waiting in the rain as that's what they have to do because of the way the queue works. What WYCA should have done is built a train station on the site before the ice rink was built, that could have been shoved a bit further up towards Elland Road where the landscaping is allowing enough room for a station to be built with lift access. Yes that would mean a loss of some parking in the area behind the ice rink, but the whole site is never filled to capacity anyway. |
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Nov 27, 2022 11:53:25 GMT 1
Having a park and ride service that stops outside of the immediate city centre isn't going attract much custom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 14:28:53 GMT 1
You’re expecting shoppers to walk to Asda to catch the bus? They might as well walk all the way to Elland Road Takes on average 33 minutes to walk from Elland Road to Asda house, not sure many want to do that in the rain never mind cold or even hot weather with practically no shelter along the way and a very dodgy walk through part of Holbeck. The worse the PR1 gets, the less appealing it will be with people joining the queue of traffic instead as at least they'll be warm with access to entertainment in comfort. People are already getting fed up waiting in the rain as that's what they have to do because of the way the queue works. What WYCA should have done is built a train station on the site before the ice rink was built, that could have been shoved a bit further up towards Elland Road where the landscaping is allowing enough room for a station to be built with lift access. Yes that would mean a loss of some parking in the area behind the ice rink, but the whole site is never filled to capacity anyway. If they had built a station at Elland Rd,due to the track capacity it probably would of only been served Half Hourly at best (more than likely just Hourly) - Would that really have been much better than the current bus service? If its down to traffic holding it up maybe WYMCA should look at doing what Scotland have done on some parts of it's motorway & turn the hard shoulder of the M621 into a Bus lane. Possibly also look at reopening part of the old Elland Rd Stadium bus station so the buses can use Bobby Collins Way in both direction & use the old bus station to exit onto the roundabout. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 27, 2022 14:37:40 GMT 1
That’s not where the congestion is in my experience
It’s around Bridgewater Place where traffic is stacking back from the City Square closure and buses have to fight their way across from the bus Lane in lane 1 to lane 3 to be able to turn right past Asda
Then on Meadow Lane which is now only one Lane and again is congested by car traffic trying to find a way to get to Trinity or Sovereign Square car parks
And then on Whitehall Road near the back of the station as buses have to fight through all the traffic queuing to get to the railway station drop off
And then southbound on the Ingram Distributor, which is congested more than usual due to roadworks on the roundabout and on the M621
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Nov 27, 2022 14:47:06 GMT 1
That’s not where the congestion is in my experience It’s around Bridgewater Place where traffic is stacking back from the City Square closure and buses have to fight their way across from the bus Lane in lane 1 to lane 3 to be able to turn right past Asda Then on Meadow Lane which is now only one Lane and again is congested by car traffic trying to find a way to get to Trinity or Sovereign Square car parks And then on Whitehall Road near the back of the station as buses have to fight through all the traffic queuing to get to the railway station drop off And then southbound on the Ingram Distributor, which is congested more than usual due to roadworks on the roundabout and on the M621 And for those who had no idea why I thought Asda would be a better place to terminate the PR1, now you know why lol. Additionally, there now seems to be regular tailbacks on Elland Road from the roundabout up past the stadium, happened twice last week for example. There is no way of fighting this problem other than dramatically changing the route to avoid all the bottlenecks. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 15:19:49 GMT 1
That’s not where the congestion is in my experience It’s around Bridgewater Place where traffic is stacking back from the City Square closure and buses have to fight their way across from the bus Lane in lane 1 to lane 3 to be able to turn right past Asda Then on Meadow Lane which is now only one Lane and again is congested by car traffic trying to find a way to get to Trinity or Sovereign Square car parks And then on Whitehall Road near the back of the station as buses have to fight through all the traffic queuing to get to the railway station drop off And then southbound on the Ingram Distributor, which is congested more than usual due to roadworks on the roundabout and on the M621 And for those who had no idea why I thought Asda would be a better place to terminate the PR1, now you know why lol. Additionally, there now seems to be regular tailbacks on Elland Road from the roundabout up past the stadium, happened twice last week for example. There is no way of fighting this problem other than dramatically changing the route to avoid all the bottlenecks. The Elland Rd Tailbacks is why i mentioned using part of the old bus station to exit the P&R (The exit from it comes out at the end of Elland Rd just before the traffic lights to the roundabout) Whilst terminating at ASDA Might make sense traffic wise, it would make the service less useful to people wanting the city centre - especially the weekend shoppers (i doubt many people who have the option of a car would willingly walk to ASDA from the city centre with shopping),so it could end up making traffic worse than it already is. |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 27, 2022 16:44:05 GMT 1
Sadly the PR1 has no easy alternative into the city.
Current route congested.
Whitehall Road congested.
A643 & Armley Gyratory congested.
I'd look at staying on the M621 an extra junction to the A61 but that doubles the mileage.
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Post by northerner on Nov 27, 2022 21:57:56 GMT 1
Reverting back to the old route may help to improve reliability. Going via Armley Gyratory was always going to adversely affect the service.
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Post by jonny182 on Nov 27, 2022 22:50:30 GMT 1
Reverting back to the old route may help to improve reliability. Going via Armley Gyratory was always going to adversely affect the service. I would agree reverting this back to the old outbound route via Neville Street and Victoria Rd would be better but I think the Wellington Place developers asked/sibsidise /part pay for the outbound route to serve the office park that way out of town? |
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Post by peteleeds on Nov 28, 2022 3:28:47 GMT 1
Reverting back to the old route may help to improve reliability. Going via Armley Gyratory was always going to adversely affect the service. I would agree reverting this back to the old outbound route via Neville Street and Victoria Rd would be better but I think the Wellington Place developers asked/sibsidise /part pay for the outbound route to serve the office park that way out of town? I think they would be better running straight in along neville street. Under station. Maybe stopping at Infirmary street rather than boar lane |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 28, 2022 12:07:57 GMT 1
I would agree reverting this back to the old outbound route via Neville Street and Victoria Rd would be better but I think the Wellington Place developers asked/sibsidise /part pay for the outbound route to serve the office park that way out of town? I think they would be better running straight in along neville street. Under station. Maybe stopping at Infirmary street rather than boar lane Have you seen the traffic on Neville Street? |
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Post by basher37 on Nov 28, 2022 17:01:38 GMT 1
I think they would be better running straight in along neville street. Under station. Maybe stopping at Infirmary street rather than boar lane Have you seen the traffic on Neville Street? When folk realise that all you do when driving on Neville Street to City Square is to come back on yourself in a loop to Neville Street then folk might realise that Leeds City Centre is a car no go area now,if you don’t turn back down Mill Hill after turning right at City Square you get caught by the Boar Lane bus gate at Briggate heading towards the Corn Exchange,no wonder town traffic is a mess. |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Nov 28, 2022 19:33:07 GMT 1
One thing I am noticing is traffic on a Monday and Friday morning isn't too bad, in fact this morning hardly any traffic around 7.45am around Bridgewater Place. Maybe all this working from home lark needs a major re-think!
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Post by northerner on Nov 28, 2022 23:02:08 GMT 1
Reverting back to the old route may help to improve reliability. Going via Armley Gyratory was always going to adversely affect the service. I would agree reverting this back to the old outbound route via Neville Street and Victoria Rd would be better but I think the Wellington Place developers asked/sibsidise /part pay for the outbound route to serve the office park that way out of town? Ah, that would limit the options then! Do many use it on the section on Whitehall Road? If it's poorly used then there's little point causing longer journey times and delays to the majority, however if it's well used then there's not many alternative routes to take to Elland Road. |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 29, 2022 0:19:03 GMT 1
I would agree reverting this back to the old outbound route via Neville Street and Victoria Rd would be better but I think the Wellington Place developers asked/sibsidise /part pay for the outbound route to serve the office park that way out of town? Ah, that would limit the options then! Do many use it on the section on Whitehall Road? If it's poorly used then there's little point causing longer journey times and delays to the majority, however if it's well used then there's not many alternative routes to take to Elland Road. I always thought Whitehall Road would be a quiet 1 for all buses, given the number of carparks in the vicinity. However, a good number use the bus from there, hopefully thr majroity are PR1 passengers |
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Post by yorkslad on Nov 29, 2022 22:57:41 GMT 1
Takes on average 33 minutes to walk from Elland Road to Asda house, not sure many want to do that in the rain never mind cold or even hot weather with practically no shelter along the way and a very dodgy walk through part of Holbeck. The worse the PR1 gets, the less appealing it will be with people joining the queue of traffic instead as at least they'll be warm with access to entertainment in comfort. People are already getting fed up waiting in the rain as that's what they have to do because of the way the queue works. What WYCA should have done is built a train station on the site before the ice rink was built, that could have been shoved a bit further up towards Elland Road where the landscaping is allowing enough room for a station to be built with lift access. Yes that would mean a loss of some parking in the area behind the ice rink, but the whole site is never filled to capacity anyway. If they had built a station at Elland Rd,due to the track capacity it probably would of only been served Half Hourly at best (more than likely just Hourly) - Would that really have been much better than the current bus service? If its down to traffic holding it up maybe WYMCA should look at doing what Scotland have done on some parts of it's motorway & turn the hard shoulder of the M621 into a Bus lane. Possibly also look at reopening part of the old Elland Rd Stadium bus station so the buses can use Bobby Collins Way in both direction & use the old bus station to exit onto the roundabout. WYCA couldn't have promoted a scheme for a station at Elland Road, even if they had the £15m to build it, as there's no gap for trains to call between Leeds and Wakefield. That's why the Pontefract services don't call at Outwood between Leeds and Wakefield - the fast trains catch them up. Pretty sure WYCA can't create a bus lane on a motorway, not even sure the council can.
Using Bobby Collins Way in both directions would mean rebuilding the waiting shelter and laybys. The Elland Road site has been extended twice - it might not seem fully full, but that's kind-of the point. If it was, it would need to be extended again.
The work at the Gyratory can be got around by not using it, sticking to Domestic Street, Top Moor Side and Elland Road to reach Elland Road P&R instead of doubling back at Mill Green onto Sydenham Street. Can't take much longer than it does now!
I did wonder if you could reverse the route; in via Whitehall Road, out via Call Lane, with the city centre stop on Infirmary Street and one on Meadow Lane. That would free up a westbound stop as well. Or, out via Wellington Street with a stop near Little Queen Street (or even using the mini roundabout on Wellington Place). Ultimately, we need the Gyratory work to conclude - traffic might flow more freely after that, with the new configuration.
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