Network explanation meetings

[selbybus]

Do you need help navigating our new network?

Arriva are holding some meetings that the public can attend so the new network can be explained.

From Arriva social media below -

Services are changing on 3rd October, and our team will be on hand to help you plan your journeys on the new network.

Pop along to see us if you need help planning future journeys - we may know a shortcut or two.

Here is where we’ll be:
•Thu 22 Sep 7am-11am Cleckheaton Bus Station
•Mon 26 Sep 7am-11am Pontefract Bus Station
•Tue 27 Sep 7am-11am Heckmondwike Hub
•Wed 28 Sep 10am-12pm Morley Library
•Thu 29 Sep 10am-12pm Selby Library

[WYBS]

If I worked for JCT600; I'd be setting up a sales stand at the exit.

[stantheman]

But nothing for Wakefield Bus Station!

[steviewevie]

That could be because they can't sugar coat the cuts in the Wakefield area.

[westyorkshirebus]

Probably because not as much is changing around Wakefield

[stantheman]

Sept 23, 2022 7:45:18 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

Probably because not as much is changing around Wakefield

Yes there is!

[selbybus]

Anyone going to any of these? Interesting to see if you get any sense out of Arriva.

[guyarab]

Arriva changes

I went to Morley and spoke to three Arriva representatives, one Londoner living in Liverpool, one from Doncaster and the third from the Manchester area. Two of them did know the area well and obviously thought the changes were positive for the passenger (I thought, positive for the operator!). They explained why the 254 was going to Brighouse instead of Dewsbury, citing that Brighouse was a town for future success for Arriva and nobody wanted to go to Dewsbury anymore, (well you can see why) and thought that Kirklees Council’s drive to invest in Dewsbury had come much too late (I agree) to encourage visitors back to the town. The profitable part of the 254 was the Leeds-Cleckheaton leg and continuing on to Dewsbury (as it had done for years in one guise or another) was a heavy loss maker (but it seems okay to warrant its own Cleckheaton to Dewsbury route (250)! The residents of Hightown now only have the circuitous 200 to get them somewhere.

They are sure that the latest version of the 229, with a 15 frequency for the length of the route and quicker too, will be a winner. I put it to them that if they wanted a quicker run end to end, they should remove Heckmondwike and Birstall town centres and Gildersome too, but they felt that that would be too much. I countered that it didn’t bother Arriva when they diverted the 229 away rom Batley and along Bradford Road to such as Wilton Park, but I was told it was easy for people to change to and from other routes in Batley. The well heeled souls of Hartshead don’t warrant a Huddersfield-Leeds link by bus, so those who do, now have to go around the houses to get to the former, or change for Leeds in Cleckheaton.

The 212 hardly attracts great numbers, so Arriva have reduced the route to two hourly between 10:00 and 18:00 on Sundays and the last bus from either end is 18:00 daily, previously the last one was 21:00, before that, 22:00 and in its prime, 23:00 with ‘deckers working the route, with Dewsbury and Wakefield each having an allocation.

The three Arriva men thought that extending the 200 to start and finish in Heckmondwike was a really good idea. I don’t think passengers boarding the bus at the Hub for a shopping spree in Leeds will take to such a convoluted journey.

One thing on with which they agreed with me was sending the 203 off piste down Heybeck Lane, but it’s doubtful any changes will be made soon to that “diversion”. One disappointment is the evening reduction of this Huddersfield to Leeds service to be hourly end to end with 202 finishing at Shaw Cross from Huddersfield. This was tried some years ago and was at that time seen most unfavourably by passengers and the normal evening hourly timetable was eventually re-introduced.

I asked about the lack of services to Doncaster and it would seem Arriva will leave services into that city to the likes of Stagecoach, running from Wakefield and Pontefract.

One little insight was that Arriva is not allowed set up services into Sheffield because of some indiscretion(s) during the bus wars years when the then Caldaire (I think) company set up Sheffield & District.

I was given a booklet about the changes and asked why these were not being sent to all households like they used to be and was told that they were being posted to every house and should be delivered, probably by the time I returned home. I still await mine.

[stephen01]

Oct 9, 2022 20:17:23 GMT 1 guyarab said:

Arriva changes

I went to Morley and spoke to three Arriva representatives, one Londoner living in Liverpool, one from Doncaster and the third from the Manchester area. Two of them did know the area well and obviously thought the changes were positive for the passenger (I thought, positive for the operator!). They explained why the 254 was going to Brighouse instead of Dewsbury, citing that Brighouse was a town for future success for Arriva and nobody wanted to go to Dewsbury anymore, (well you can see why) and thought that Kirklees Council’s drive to invest in Dewsbury had come much too late (I agree) to encourage visitors back to the town. The profitable part of the 254 was the Leeds-Cleckheaton leg and continuing on to Dewsbury (as it had done for years in one guise or another) was a heavy loss maker (but it seems okay to warrant its own Cleckheaton to Dewsbury route (250)! The residents of Hightown now only have the circuitous 200 to get them somewhere.

They are sure that the latest version of the 229, with a 15 frequency for the length of the route and quicker too, will be a winner. I put it to them that if they wanted a quicker run end to end, they should remove Heckmondwike and Birstall town centres and Gildersome too, but they felt that that would be too much. I countered that it didn’t bother Arriva when they diverted the 229 away rom Batley and along Bradford Road to such as Wilton Park, but I was told it was easy for people to change to and from other routes in Batley. The well heeled souls of Hartshead don’t warrant a Huddersfield-Leeds link by bus, so those who do, now have to go around the houses to get to the former, or change for Leeds in Cleckheaton.

The 212 hardly attracts great numbers, so Arriva have reduced the route to two hourly between 10:00 and 18:00 on Sundays and the last bus from either end is 18:00 daily, previously the last one was 21:00, before that, 22:00 and in its prime, 23:00 with ‘deckers working the route, with Dewsbury and Wakefield each having an allocation.

The three Arriva men thought that extending the 200 to start and finish in Heckmondwike was a really good idea. I don’t think passengers boarding the bus at the Hub for a shopping spree in Leeds will take to such a convoluted journey.

One thing on with which they agreed with me was sending the 203 off piste down Heybeck Lane, but it’s doubtful any changes will be made soon to that “diversion”. One disappointment is the evening reduction of this Huddersfield to Leeds service to be hourly end to end with 202 finishing at Shaw Cross from Huddersfield. This was tried some years ago and was at that time seen most unfavourably by passengers and the normal evening hourly timetable was eventually re-introduced.

I asked about the lack of services to Doncaster and it would seem Arriva will leave services into that city to the likes of Stagecoach, running from Wakefield and Pontefract.

One little insight was that Arriva is not allowed set up services into Sheffield because of some indiscretion(s) during the bus wars years when the then Caldaire (I think) company set up Sheffield & District.

I was given a booklet about the changes and asked why these were not being sent to all households like they used to be and was told that they were being posted to every house and should be delivered, probably by the time I returned home. I still await mine.

So in a roundabout way they've more or less admitted most parts of North Kirklees is really no long deemed as necessary for needing regular reliable routes. The 229 current timetable is laughable as you can get several running behind each other either direction (this friday just gone for example i was walking to Birstall and saw 2 229s Huddersfield bound both with decent loads and i mean that many you couldn't merge loadings). The 212 again used to have decent loadings too before they decided to muck about sending it around more of the estates instead of the original more quicker route with the new/current timetables now leave Batley without a bus service to Dewsbury Hospital for majority of an evening and most of the day on a Sunday which means have to travel to Dewsbury on 281/283/283A to swap to 268 (it's alright Monday-Friday at the min as there's still 213). Getting the bus to & from Batley to Dewsbury Hospital has always been cheaper than forking out for 2 taxis. The 250 also only runs Dewsbury to Heckmondwike. They've NEVER posted out service change booklets and rarely have they been on the buses excepted for the noticeboard kinds. This has massively proved a point i've made in the October Service Changes thread that the local managers and planners aren't out on the ground on the routes assessing before implementing.

[Username]

Oct 9, 2022 20:17:23 GMT 1 guyarab said:

Arriva changes

I went to Morley and spoke to three Arriva representatives, one Londoner living in Liverpool, one from Doncaster and the third from the Manchester area. Two of them did know the area well and obviously thought the changes were positive for the passenger (I thought, positive for the operator!). They explained why the 254 was going to Brighouse instead of Dewsbury, citing that Brighouse was a town for future success for Arriva and nobody wanted to go to Dewsbury anymore, (well you can see why) and thought that Kirklees Council’s drive to invest in Dewsbury had come much too late (I agree) to encourage visitors back to the town. The profitable part of the 254 was the Leeds-Cleckheaton leg and continuing on to Dewsbury (as it had done for years in one guise or another) was a heavy loss maker (but it seems okay to warrant its own Cleckheaton to Dewsbury route (250)! The residents of Hightown now only have the circuitous 200 to get them somewhere.

They are sure that the latest version of the 229, with a 15 frequency for the length of the route and quicker too, will be a winner. I put it to them that if they wanted a quicker run end to end, they should remove Heckmondwike and Birstall town centres and Gildersome too, but they felt that that would be too much. I countered that it didn’t bother Arriva when they diverted the 229 away rom Batley and along Bradford Road to such as Wilton Park, but I was told it was easy for people to change to and from other routes in Batley. The well heeled souls of Hartshead don’t warrant a Huddersfield-Leeds link by bus, so those who do, now have to go around the houses to get to the former, or change for Leeds in Cleckheaton.

The 212 hardly attracts great numbers, so Arriva have reduced the route to two hourly between 10:00 and 18:00 on Sundays and the last bus from either end is 18:00 daily, previously the last one was 21:00, before that, 22:00 and in its prime, 23:00 with ‘deckers working the route, with Dewsbury and Wakefield each having an allocation.

The three Arriva men thought that extending the 200 to start and finish in Heckmondwike was a really good idea. I don’t think passengers boarding the bus at the Hub for a shopping spree in Leeds will take to such a convoluted journey.

One thing on with which they agreed with me was sending the 203 off piste down Heybeck Lane, but it’s doubtful any changes will be made soon to that “diversion”. One disappointment is the evening reduction of this Huddersfield to Leeds service to be hourly end to end with 202 finishing at Shaw Cross from Huddersfield. This was tried some years ago and was at that time seen most unfavourably by passengers and the normal evening hourly timetable was eventually re-introduced.

I asked about the lack of services to Doncaster and it would seem Arriva will leave services into that city to the likes of Stagecoach, running from Wakefield and Pontefract.

One little insight was that Arriva is not allowed set up services into Sheffield because of some indiscretion(s) during the bus wars years when the then Caldaire (I think) company set up Sheffield & District.

I was given a booklet about the changes and asked why these were not being sent to all households like they used to be and was told that they were being posted to every house and should be delivered, probably by the time I returned home. I still await mine.

The better idea would just be to cut Gildersome and then run a new route to Leeds via the old 229 from Gildersome maybe numbered 209?

[westyorkshirebus]

It is true about Dewsbury though, I mean who would want to visit there except for people who live there

Of course the 254 itself was convoluted, it'd be slated if it was introduced now. Its acceptable for Dewsbury to Heckmondwike, but going on to Cleckheaton is faster on the 268, and obviously going to Leeds is way faster on the 202/203 (or the 229 from Heckmondwike)

I would personally have kept the 229 through Roberttown but just scrapped the bit via Hartshead, so still saved a bit of time but not quite as much as they've gone with. The 260 would serve Hartshead and the 261 would have been unchanged from its previous route

Also I would have kept the 254 as far as Heckmondwike serving Liversedge and Hightown instead of the 200. The Brighouse journeys would then be numbered 253

[WYBS]

I still don't get the obsession with making the 229 faster. Are they trying to target commuters travelling all the way from Huddersfield to Leeds (and vice versa)?

The train takes 25 (ish) minutes. No bus route can ever compete with that.

[westyorkshirebus]

Oct 9, 2022 22:11:05 GMT 1 WYBS said:

I still don't get the obsession with making the 229 faster. Are they trying to target commuters travelling all the way from Huddersfield to Leeds (and vice versa)?

The train takes 25 (ish) minutes. No bus route can ever compete with that.

Even if you aren’t travelling end to end, many routes can feel like they take ages, when the bus is constantly turning off the main road and going round the houses.

[adam]

I'll just add that we got a bus change leaflet through the door in Wakefield

[joseph]

Oct 9, 2022 22:11:05 GMT 1 WYBS said:

I still don't get the obsession with making the 229 faster. Are they trying to target commuters travelling all the way from Huddersfield to Leeds (and vice versa)?

The train takes 25 (ish) minutes. No bus route can ever compete with that.

Ah, but what about those in between who want a quicker service, personally I use it to Huddersfield from Beeston in place of the more expensive train from Cottingley, walking the short 10 minute distance down to the Wheatsheaf junction for it making it no more than a 90 minute end to end journey (much shorter at certain times) in including the walk. Walking to Cottingley station takes 15 mins the shortest way, then you have to allow 5 to 7 minutes to get a ticket (it can be a slow machine that one!) and it's a half hour journey making the total time 50 minutes if you're lucky not to be delayed by either the train or the ticket machine, the quickest 229 and walk combination can take as little as 70 minutes so well worth the saving over the train. especially if travelling before half 9 and returning after 6 bearing in mind the very expensive peak rail fare before half 9 and quicker 229 after 6. You'd probably find many more out there who live in between and have worked out the quicker journey compared to before is worth doing.

[Deleted]

Oct 9, 2022 22:11:05 GMT 1 WYBS said:

I still don't get the obsession with making the 229 faster. Are they trying to target commuters travelling all the way from Huddersfield to Leeds (and vice versa)?

The train takes 25 (ish) minutes. No bus route can ever compete with that.

Don't forget theres the Transpennine Upgrade Program thats due to ramp up building soon,so the trains are going to be on/off through Huddersfield during it. Guessing Arriva are hoping they might grab a few passengers during it that don't want to deal with Rail Replacements.

[WYBS]

Oct 10, 2022 13:00:09 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

Oct 9, 2022 22:11:05 GMT 1 WYBS said:

I still don't get the obsession with making the 229 faster. Are they trying to target commuters travelling all the way from Huddersfield to Leeds (and vice versa)?

The train takes 25 (ish) minutes. No bus route can ever compete with that.

Don't forget theres the Transpennine Upgrade Program thats due to ramp up building soon,so the trains are going to be on/off through Huddersfield during it. Guessing Arriva are hoping they might grab a few passengers during it that don't want to deal with Rail Replacements.

I don't envy the passengers. The Transpennine uograde will take years if they're still planning to do all the work they originally intended to do, like rebuilding Huddersfield station and also completely remodeling Heaton Lodge junction.