sharksmith
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Post by sharksmith on Aug 17, 2021 15:52:26 GMT 1
Here's a link to the new Mercedes CitaroE arriving at Harrogate for trials.
What's just as interesting to me is the exchange of views below.
As you can see the post says,'We're on the search for the best electric bus for our customers needs in the coming years'
Nothing too controversial there other than the use of the word customers instead of good old passengers
The first reply however asks 'What about the best electric bus for our drivers..? They spend most time in them.
Alex's response is 'If the customers don't like them the drivers will have nobody to drive around in them. Which is the point of a bus. The best bus combines the best attributes for everyone. But we start with the customers.
I think the second half of the tweet would have been a more diplomatic response and feel the first half shows a lack of respect towards the drivers, but there's probably some internal squabble in the background here, however what do you think is the more important.
Comfortable happy drivers or comfortable happy passengers.
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 17, 2021 18:15:22 GMT 1
A business should first and foremost serve its customers, that is absolutely fundamental.
Yes, it should also do it in a way that respects and values its staff, but when the desires of staff override the benefits to customers then the business is lost.
See also: First Manchester.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Aug 17, 2021 18:16:31 GMT 1
Catch 22 though because some drivers will do one trip with an uncomfortable bus and book them off. So yeah passengers may have a nice bus but drivers wont drive them.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Aug 17, 2021 21:54:37 GMT 1
I'm suprised he's replied to that tweet in that manner. If that was my manager, I'd be really p*ssed off & feel cast aside & unloved.
He's usually great with spin & there could easily be spin put on that - "of course we'll take our driver's point of view on board too, they need to be in a good working environment to allow them best to serve our customers". Now whether that spin would ever happen, is another thing. But instead, you've screwed your workforce over.
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 17, 2021 23:16:06 GMT 1
I'm suprised he's replied to that tweet in that manner. If that was my manager, I'd be really p*ssed off & feel cast aside & unloved. He's usually great with spin & there could easily be spin put on that - "of course we'll take our driver's point of view on board too, they need to be in a good working environment to allow them best to serve our customers". Now whether that spin would ever happen, is another thing. But instead, you've screwed your workforce over. He said The best bus combines the best attributes for everyone.He is not going to screw the drivers over or cast them aside by giving something that is awful to drive (obviously existing or inherited fleets can't be changed overnight, I'm talking about new purchases). If your reaction to "Customers are the top priority" (from a company that, as far as I can tell, generally does look after its staff quite well) is "That means the staff are being stuffed" then you might not be in the right frame of mind to be in a front-line customer-facing role. |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Aug 18, 2021 7:40:18 GMT 1
I'm suprised he's replied to that tweet in that manner. If that was my manager, I'd be really p*ssed off & feel cast aside & unloved. He's usually great with spin & there could easily be spin put on that - "of course we'll take our driver's point of view on board too, they need to be in a good working environment to allow them best to serve our customers". Now whether that spin would ever happen, is another thing. But instead, you've screwed your workforce over. He said The best bus combines the best attributes for everyone.He is not going to screw the drivers over or cast them aside by giving something that is awful to drive (obviously existing or inherited fleets can't be changed overnight, I'm talking about new purchases). If your reaction to "Customers are the top priority" (from a company that, as far as I can tell, generally does look after its staff quite well) is "That means the staff are being stuffed" then you might not be in the right frame of mind to be in a front-line customer-facing role. 😂 just my whole working life on the front line. The thing is, everyone reads these statements differently and absorbs different pieces of info from it. I wouldn't be happy with his reply & I think it could quite easily have been put much better to incorporate his staff's request. Instead to me, it's customers, customers customers. I was recently part of a team that supported the creation of a new piece of software. Software that will ultimately benefit the client and their journey with the charity I worked for. The message that we delivered was about how making the environment I worked in would be better, meaning I would be able to support more people and the end result would be a hugely improved customer journey, having fully incorporated views of the advisors, the customers and of course compliance etc. A similar message and thought process should work here, rather than one party being lesser than the other. |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 18, 2021 8:19:05 GMT 1
He said The best bus combines the best attributes for everyone.He is not going to screw the drivers over or cast them aside by giving something that is awful to drive (obviously existing or inherited fleets can't be changed overnight, I'm talking about new purchases). If your reaction to "Customers are the top priority" (from a company that, as far as I can tell, generally does look after its staff quite well) is "That means the staff are being stuffed" then you might not be in the right frame of mind to be in a front-line customer-facing role. 😂 just my whole working life on the front line. The thing is, everyone reads these statements differently and absorbs different pieces of info from it. I wouldn't be happy with his reply & I think it could quite easily have been put much better to incorporate his staff's request. Instead to me, it's customers, customers customers. I was recently part of a team that supported the creation of a new piece of software. Software that will ultimately benefit the client and their journey with the charity I worked for. The message that we delivered was about how making the environment I worked in would be better, meaning I would be able to support more people and the end result would be a hugely improved customer journey, having fully incorporated views of the advisors, the customers and of course compliance etc. A similar message and thought process should work here, rather than one party being lesser than the other. You also need to look at the context of the original post, Alex is well aware he is well known and his twitter is followed/viewed by his customers so company related posts like this will be done with a degree of PR spin for the general public. It is normal for innovations to be communicated differently for different groups of stakeholders to emphasize different positives appropriately. It also could be argued that in saying the best bus for our customers needs includes being attractive for the driver as a better work environment as this will make it easier for them to provide good customer service and driving standards. Additionally, a public PR post like this is not the appropriate way for a member of staff to make a point like this which may explain the robust response. |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Aug 18, 2021 9:19:57 GMT 1
Oh I agree, there's 100% better ways to ask questions to your employer. However, AH has had interactions with staff on there so he's set a precedent already.
Think it should be better on all parts.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Aug 18, 2021 16:21:09 GMT 1
"If the customers don't like it, then the drivers will be driving round an empty bus"
What a load of nonsense. A bus is a bus. It gets you from A to B. As a passenger, you use it because you have no other option, or because it is more convenient than other options. You don't decide not to use a bus because it is a Mercedes and not a Volvo.
As for the drivers preference, do supermarkets ask their staff what brand of checkout they would prefer? Do DPD/DHL/Hermes ask their drivers about which vans they would like to be provided with? My local Parcelforce guy drives a van with an intergalactic mileage, and a torn driver's seat with the foam sticking out. I can't imagine that he chose that! And there must be some strange posties at Royal Mail if they all chose Fiat Doblo vans to drive.
They drive what they are given, which will be the most cost effective solution for the business, that gets the job done and Transdev will be no different, otherwise they would order the most luxurious coach that they could find and use that as a service bus. Prevost make some than cost more than $1 million. They would be a lovely replacement for the old bangers that travel to Pateley Bridge. Everyone would love those, except perhaps the Transdev shareholders.
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 18, 2021 18:37:51 GMT 1
Not when there is competition although most do seem to avoid that specific competition. The original twitter post raising the issue was from cab driver in Eastbourne so not exactly relevant to any company relationships.
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 18, 2021 23:28:58 GMT 1
"If the customers don't like it, then the drivers will be driving round an empty bus" What a load of nonsense. A bus is a bus. It gets you from A to B. As a passenger, you use it because you have no other option, or because it is more convenient than other options. You don't decide not to use a bus because it is a Mercedes and not a Volvo. Why do you think that Transdev have spent huge sums of money buying luxury-spec buses for The 36, Coastliner, WitchWay and CityZap, if any old shed would do the job just as well? It's because the quality of the bus does matter, buses that give passengers a more comfortable and pleasant journey will attract more passengers – especially on routes where there is competition with other buses or trains. No, not every service is going to get these luxury-spec buses, because on low-volume routes the potential for increased traffic isn't enough to justify the outlay, but within the price point for the route you still want to get the bus that will give passengers the most enjoyable ride in order to maximise ridership. |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 19, 2021 6:42:19 GMT 1
"If the customers don't like it, then the drivers will be driving round an empty bus" What a load of nonsense. A bus is a bus. It gets you from A to B. As a passenger, you use it because you have no other option, or because it is more convenient than other options. You don't decide not to use a bus because it is a Mercedes and not a Volvo. As for the drivers preference, do supermarkets ask their staff what brand of checkout they would prefer? Do DPD/DHL/Hermes ask their drivers about which vans they would like to be provided with? My local Parcelforce guy drives a van with an intergalactic mileage, and a torn driver's seat with the foam sticking out. I can't imagine that he chose that! And there must be some strange posties at Royal Mail if they all chose Fiat Doblo vans to drive. They drive what they are given, which will be the most cost effective solution for the business, that gets the job done and Transdev will be no different, otherwise they would order the most luxurious coach that they could find and use that as a service bus. Prevost make some than cost more than $1 million. They would be a lovely replacement for the old bangers that travel to Pateley Bridge. Everyone would love those, except perhaps the Transdev shareholders. Sorry but have got to disagree here, one word spells it all out, posh! All along the 36 route for a start are posh areas, Chapel Allerton is one of those quirky up and coming trendy areas full of middle class and upper class housing, and around Chapel Allerton they are quite environmentally aware nowadays of the importance of non car travel so why not provide something good to tempt them. Oh and if you don't believe me that upper class housing exists in Chapel Allerton, take a walk up some of the back streets, there is a gated mansion for a start just off Henconer Lane lol. Moortown has always been posh, Alwoodley is the most expensive area in Leeds, especially where the 36 runs, Harewood is posh, and then you've got Harrogate, enough said there. Ripley, Killinghall etc all have nice middle or upper class housing, Ripon may have council areas but it too has it's poshness. You're not going to attract many regular passengers with any old bus, hell fire even in urban Leeds you see people let the chepo 2/3/3A go in favour for paying out on the 36, seen that often enough down Chapeltown Road. As I've already said above, Harrogate is nothing but high end posh, even the older vehicles used on Harrogate routes have always had to have high standards, I've got to say that if First ran in Harrogate, passenger numbers would drop like a stone unless they too could maintain the very high standards expected, no demanded, by Harrogate and surrounds passengers. |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 19, 2021 8:38:06 GMT 1
"If the customers don't like it, then the drivers will be driving round an empty bus" What a load of nonsense. A bus is a bus. It gets you from A to B. As a passenger, you use it because you have no other option, or because it is more convenient than other options. You don't decide not to use a bus because it is a Mercedes and not a Volvo. As for the drivers preference, do supermarkets ask their staff what brand of checkout they would prefer? Do DPD/DHL/Hermes ask their drivers about which vans they would like to be provided with? My local Parcelforce guy drives a van with an intergalactic mileage, and a torn driver's seat with the foam sticking out. I can't imagine that he chose that! And there must be some strange posties at Royal Mail if they all chose Fiat Doblo vans to drive. They drive what they are given, which will be the most cost effective solution for the business, that gets the job done and Transdev will be no different, otherwise they would order the most luxurious coach that they could find and use that as a service bus. Prevost make some than cost more than $1 million. They would be a lovely replacement for the old bangers that travel to Pateley Bridge. Everyone would love those, except perhaps the Transdev shareholders. If you are only interested in carrying those with no, or little, choice then quality matters less but Transdev well know that this is not a sustainable market - it is shrinking and insufficient to support profitable operation. The Bus Industry needs those passengers who have a real choice and where the convenience argument is a much closer calculation to get the volume that supports a long term future and to win these passengers real quality is required. The bus industry is facing a recruitment crisis, why would a company choose to make a less pleasant staff experience when it doesn't need to? Transdev are a company at the top of the pile, if the drivers feel they can have a more pleasant working environment at another company they will - vehicle quality isn't the only factor (and it isn't a simple case of newer buses are better for a driver but investment shows a positive environment) but it is a big one for larger companies where they can't offer less evening & weekend work that some of the smaller businesses can. Supermarkets and parcels companies need less specialist training to work for them so they have a much larger pool of prospective staff to recruit from so a higher staff turnover is less of a concern and they can afford to buy cheap rather than best. A luxurious top end coach wouldn't necessarily be the most popular option for local bus services for either passengers or drivers. They aren't as easy to get on or off so for local traffic it may be nice as a one off but they would soon become a chore if you are using it every day having to negotiate all those steps and squeeze down aisles whilst they are less maneuverable than service buses (I did my training in a coach and got very frustrated when I couldn't get it round a route I knew similar length buses got round clean until the instructor pointed out a coach has longer wheelbase and poorer lock than a similar length bus) and the big engines rarely can be fitted with automatic gearboxes so some form of manual intervention in the gear changes adds another thing to the driving. Also it could easily be argued that Trandev often spec their buses to luxury coach standards within a bus shell to get the best of both worlds - the deckers on the 36 could certainly compare positively to many coaches - so Transdev do up-spec their vehicles way beyond the minimum necessary to provide the service. |
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Post by 576 Gemini 2 on Aug 19, 2021 14:57:04 GMT 1
Catch 22 though because some drivers will do one trip with an uncomfortable bus and book them off. So yeah passengers may have a nice bus but drivers wont drive them. Is there a bus type anywhere in current that is like by both passengers & staff |
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Post by glennh2 on Aug 19, 2021 16:18:36 GMT 1
Passengers 1st, drivers a close 2nd
The snag for drivers is without passengers they probably don't have a job for very long due to low revenue
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Post by rwilkes on Aug 19, 2021 22:27:26 GMT 1
A bus manager once said to me that a bus company way like a three legged stool. One leg was the customers, one leg the staff and one leg the shareholders.
If any one leg buckles the company goes under. The manager has to balance these 3 interests groups so that they all stay on board. Not easy.
If anyone is wondering what is the use of shareholders, they provide the capital to buy buses, depots, computer systems and any other up front costs. The management has to persuade shareholders that the bus company is at least as good a bet as a supermarket. The shareholders are us, via our bank balances, insurance and pensions .
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Post by driver6540 on Aug 19, 2021 23:13:46 GMT 1
"If the customers don't like it, then the drivers will be driving round an empty bus" What a load of nonsense. A bus is a bus. It gets you from A to B. As a passenger, you use it because you have no other option, or because it is more convenient than other options. You don't decide not to use a bus because it is a Mercedes and not a Volvo. As for the drivers preference, do supermarkets ask their staff what brand of checkout they would prefer? Do DPD/DHL/Hermes ask their drivers about which vans they would like to be provided with? My local Parcelforce guy drives a van with an intergalactic mileage, and a torn driver's seat with the foam sticking out. I can't imagine that he chose that! And there must be some strange posties at Royal Mail if they all chose Fiat Doblo vans to drive. They drive what they are given, which will be the most cost effective solution for the business, that gets the job done and Transdev will be no different, otherwise they would order the most luxurious coach that they could find and use that as a service bus. Prevost make some than cost more than $1 million. They would be a lovely replacement for the old bangers that travel to Pateley Bridge. Everyone would love those, except perhaps the Transdev shareholders. I agree with pretty much all your comments, as an HGV driver i have to drive a clapped out old shed foisted upon me by my long standing employers, a bit galling for me as there are newer better vehicles in our fleet. However going back to the original topic i would imagine (like me) bus drivers go to work to extract as much money for doing their job as they possibly can. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy enough to drive a shed for, say £12 an hour for Transdev, than drive an all singing all dancing beautiful new bus for First for £11 an hour (of course, i'm being hypothetical). But the overriding point is driver "comfort" has no bearing whatsoever over passenger comfort. As in any business it's the client's/customers etc that keep us in a job so their needs must take priority. |
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Post by driver6540 on Aug 19, 2021 23:20:03 GMT 1
A business should first and foremost serve its customers, that is absolutely fundamental. Yes, it should also do it in a way that respects and values its staff, but when the desires of staff override the benefits to customers then the business is lost. See also: First Manchester. Bang on. |
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Post by driver6540 on Aug 19, 2021 23:21:26 GMT 1
A bus manager once said to me that a bus company way like a three legged stool. One leg was the customers, one leg the staff and one leg the shareholders. If any one leg buckles the company goes under. The manager has to balance these 3 interests groups so that they all stay on board. Not easy. If anyone is wondering what is the use of shareholders, they provide the capital to buy buses, depots, computer systems and any other up front costs. The management has to persuade shareholders that the bus company is at least as good a bet as a supermarket. The shareholders are us, via our bank balances, insurance and pensions . A very valid point. |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 20, 2021 8:12:07 GMT 1
Catch 22 though because some drivers will do one trip with an uncomfortable bus and book them off. So yeah passengers may have a nice bus but drivers wont drive them. Is there a bus type anywhere in current that is like by both passengers & staff Probably but since no two companies are alike, no two drivers have the same opinion and no two passengers will be looking for exactly the same thing these sort of discussions are always about finding the best compromise for your business, your drivers, your engineers and your passengers not other peoples. Personally probably the best bus I have driven is a Merc Citaro (an 06 vehicle though I haven't had to do a full shift in one but it was smooth, powerful and far more maneuverable than I expected) followed by an Optare Spectra (which I have done a full shift in) whilst Mercedes Citaros would also be one of the more pleasant vehicles to travel on as a passenger (if with a slightly annoying rear seating plan) but I am sure others will hold very different views on both aspects if you asked them. |
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