66740, is it safe enough to use?

[joseph]

I've been on 66740 a few times now and when pulling out from stops or junctions on a hill, it's far too slow for comfort. Take the small section of hill on Top Moor Side next to the M621 in Holbeck, when this bus pulls out, it's far too slow and could result in a car colliding with it should a fast approaching car mis-read how fast it's actually able to go, it's not like a normal bus pulling out that's for sure. Any steep section of hill results in the bus proper crawling at first, which could cause some drivers to try and overtake, then when 66740 suddenly starts to speed up they are caught out, and pretty angry with the poor bus driver. Although legally road worthy, is it in reality road worthy when it's crawling out of hill junctions and hills?

[kendall17]

Yes it's safe. Nothing dissimilar to a laden arctic.

All the issues you highlight are down to other drivers.

[Father Dougal McGuire]

Been a few years since I last drove that bus. Was always smooth, warm and quick. But if its sluggish when pulling away its no different to the Enviro 400s with the Baumot Euro 6 mod which make them awfully slow.

[joseph]

But my point is no car driver will be expecting it to be too slow, it takes about 7 to 10 seconds to get above crawl pace when starting off on a steep hill, and then it starts to come to life which will catch out those overtaking. In all honestly it's a lot slower setting off on hills than any other bus I've caught and I can see why a lot of drivers will want to overtake, after all they may feel it'll never reach a good speed and don't wish to be stuck behind it all the way up any hill. There should be legislation what demands all vehicles have to reach a certian speed within 3 seconds on any hill or they can't use it. The old First Rotherham depot banned some of the Marshal Darts from hill routes because they were dangerously slow, with some unable to crawl up. I see what people mean about the E400s as well, although they aren't as bad setting off on a hill as this one is. Slow buses aren't going to entice any motorist out of their cars, it'll simply re-affirm their belief that car is king lol.

[stephen01]

Jun 23, 2021 5:34:44 GMT 1 joseph said:

But my point is no car driver will be expecting it to be too slow, it takes about 7 to 10 seconds to get above crawl pace when starting off on a steep hill, and then it starts to come to life which will catch out those overtaking. In all honestly it's a lot slower setting off on hills than any other bus I've caught and I can see why a lot of drivers will want to overtake, after all they may feel it'll never reach a good speed and don't wish to be stuck behind it all the way up any hill. There should be legislation what demands all vehicles have to reach a certian speed within 3 seconds on any hill or they can't use it. The old First Rotherham depot banned some of the Marshal Darts from hill routes because they were dangerously slow, with some unable to crawl up. I see what people mean about the E400s as well, although they aren't as bad setting off on a hill as this one is. Slow buses aren't going to entice any motorist out of their cars, it'll simply re-affirm their belief that car is king lol.

There's a good majority of older generations of buses like that everywhere up to about late 2007 and then they started improving. It will also depend on how powerful the gearbox is too. The only bus model i know of with that issue is Arriva's little 14 reg e200s which can even struggle moving of on flat ground or slightest incline.

[kendall17]

A good skill and something that is taught to all drivers is hazard perception (or just good old anticipation).

You see a bus with an indicator on, pulling away from a bus stop ahead, you should be anticipating to have to slow down. If you choose to overtake, it is your responsibility to make sure it's safe. If you choose to sit behind, you have to anticipate it's a slow moving vehicle.

By your logic, cyclists and horses should be removee from our roads unless they can do the speed limit?

[cwtransportphotos]

Jun 23, 2021 5:34:44 GMT 1 joseph said:

But my point is no car driver will be expecting it to be too slow, it takes about 7 to 10 seconds to get above crawl pace when starting off on a steep hill, and then it starts to come to life which will catch out those overtaking. In all honestly it's a lot slower setting off on hills than any other bus I've caught and I can see why a lot of drivers will want to overtake, after all they may feel it'll never reach a good speed and don't wish to be stuck behind it all the way up any hill. There should be legislation what demands all vehicles have to reach a certian speed within 3 seconds on any hill or they can't use it. The old First Rotherham depot banned some of the Marshal Darts from hill routes because they were dangerously slow, with some unable to crawl up. I see what people mean about the E400s as well, although they aren't as bad setting off on a hill as this one is. Slow buses aren't going to entice any motorist out of their cars, it'll simply re-affirm their belief that car is king lol.

You're looking into it soo deeply. No one that gives way to buses leaving bus stops will expect them to set off like an F1 car leaving the pits. 

If someone is stupid enough to take the risk in overtaking it then thats soley on them. You can't just withdraw a vehicle cause there's a risk that someone will get slightly impatient and overtake it ....

[77syk7]

The ex-Leeds 400 Enviros now in Halifax are some of the slowest buses on the hills I have ever known. Not been a technical expert, I presume it is down to the gearing rather than the engine output. These buses are just not suitable for our hills in Calderdale. The steepest hill start for a bus I know in our area is the stop on Station Road between Holywell Brook and Holywell Green on the 537 route. I very much doubt that an Enviro would be able to manage it!

[Father Dougal McGuire]

Jul 5, 2021 14:59:35 GMT 1 77syk7 said:

The ex-Leeds 400 Enviros now in Halifax are some of the slowest buses on the hills I have ever known. Not been a technical expert, I presume it is down to the gearing rather than the engine output. These buses are just not suitable for our hills in Calderdale. The steepest hill start for a bus I know in our area is the stop on Station Road between Holywell Brook and Holywell Green on the 537 route. I very much doubt that an Enviro would be able to manage it!

It's the Euro 6 exhaust mod by Baumot that have caused this. I drove them every day on the 49 a few years ago and they were the quickest decker we had, flew up Easterly Road and Broad Lane faster than any B7/B9 Gemini.

[Steve Macz403]

I can quote the same. Travelling on the 49. The enviros were quite quick buses when they were Euro 5. The hill up from Elland to Ainley Top is a long hill. While Kirkstall Hill, Broad Lane and Easterly Road, are smaller steep hills.

[576 Gemini 2]

Jul 6, 2021 20:14:28 GMT 1 Steve Macz403 said:

I can quote the same. Travelling on the 49. The enviros were quite quick buses when they were Euro 5. The hill up from Elland to Ainley Top is a long hill. While Kirkstall Hill, Broad Lane and Easterly Road, are sm
aller steep hills.

Wonder how they would if cope on the 590 & 592 routes if they had to be diverted up through Crag Vale the UK"s longest continuous incline?

[jus363]

Looking on bus times and general observations the Enviros now seem to just work schools 508s 590/2s services and the odd one appears on 512s.
l think 33890 has got to be slowest of the lot!.

[scania60212]

I drive this bus on a regular basis at moment its a little slow to set off because of the delayed handbrake on the 667s but once in full flow it's pretty rapid