kenh
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Post by kenh on Mar 25, 2021 15:08:28 GMT 1
In the old days, 21's and 20's* ran through from Belle Isle, through town, up to Roundhay, Street Lane, back to town through Chapeltown and down to Dewsbury Rd and vice versa. Now the timetable shows a 2 running just to Roundhay Rark via Chapeltown road, and ending there. And there is a 12 from there through Harehills to town.
Do they really turn round buses at Rounday park, or are they really through journies, and the timetables and maps are rubbish?
Also the 3 and 13 both terminate in Lidgett Lane at the same place but from opposite directions. Do they work through?
Thanks
*In the very old days, 2 circular and 3 circular. till 13 Nov 1966.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 25, 2021 16:14:21 GMT 1
Yes they do work through
2>12
3>13
3A>13A and vice-versa
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kenh
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Post by kenh on Mar 25, 2021 16:21:42 GMT 1
Yes they do work through 2>12 3>13 3A>13A and vice-versa Why doesn't the &%&$£"^ timetable say so?  |
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Steve Macz403
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Mar 25, 2021 16:27:51 GMT 1
With the routes now buses will do as the 12 extension from What was Middleton Arms ( Now an Aldi) to White Rose
Starting from White rose 3/3A >Brackenwood/Gledhow 13/13A > Middleton Thorpe Lane 2 > Roundhay Park 12 > White rose centre.
**note the 12 will go back now from white rose as a 12 and do this journey as above in reverse..
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 25, 2021 16:29:38 GMT 1
Yes they do work through 2>12 3>13 3A>13A and vice-versa Why doesn't the &%&$£"^ timetable say so? More than likely as they aren't classed as "through" journies but that they interwork with each other so hence why not stated as "through" journies on the timetables. |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 25, 2021 18:53:03 GMT 1
As posted above, they aren't through journeys, it's so they can be turned private if running late otherwise with so much interworking, they'd never catch up. Been on a 2 a few times that should work through to a 13/A, but has been turned around at Middleton to run private with the 13/A journey cancelled. As a side note, I'd scrap all the interworking on these routes, and sever the north/south link as there aren't many through passengers and it doesn't help with reliability. Evenings I think the 3/A interworks with a 12 at White Rose as well, so that's yet another complication.
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Mar 25, 2021 20:10:08 GMT 1
As posted above, they aren't through journeys, it's so they can be turned private if running late otherwise with so much interworking, they'd never catch up. Been on a 2 a few times that should work through to a 13/A, but has been turned around at Middleton to run private with the 13/A journey cancelled. As a side note, I'd scrap all the interworking on these routes, and sever the north/south link as there aren't many through passengers and it doesn't help with reliability. Evenings I think the 3/A interworks with a 12 at White Rose as well, so that's yet another complication. Just a point, the op is referring to the termini in North Leeds, rather than the ones to the South. in the 1990s I used to travel up to Street Lane regularly, so that would be the 2 now, but at the time it was route 2 up to Moortown Corner, then changed number to 12 for the journey back to Leeds and beyond. |
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Post by irhardy on Mar 25, 2021 22:34:42 GMT 1
The 2, 3/3A, 12 & 13/13A are all operated as one route, e.g. A bus starts every 10 minutes at the White Rose Centre as a 3 or 3A via Dewsbury Road, Leeds City Centre, Chapeltown Road to Gledhow (every 20 mins) or Brackenwood (every 20 mins) where it becomes a 13 or 13A via Roundhay Road, City Centre, Belle Isle to Middleton Thorpe Lane, where it becomes a 2 via Dewsbury Road, Leeds City Centre, Chapeltown Road to Roundhay where it changes to a 12 via Roundhay Road, City Centre, Belle Isle, Middleton & back to the White Rose Centre where it becomes a 3 or 3A about 4 hours after it left there previously.
I have got on a northbound 2 on Chapeltown Road and not got off the same bus until the White Rose Centre. I think the White Rose Centre is the only place where you would need to get off. Brackenwood, Gledhow, Roundhay Park & Middleton Thorpe Lane are just timing points where the driver changes the route number (or probably used to do, as the blind probably changes automatically now) and there is an extended stop if everything is running to time.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 26, 2021 18:39:39 GMT 1
Sorry to correct, but they are separate routes and don't have to run through officially, they just interwork as part of a schedule rather than as a through service. Don't forget, each one is registered separately, hence why they aren't shown in the timetable as through services. As I've already stated above in my Middleton example, when they reach the end, it's a great way of turning them private for the next leg if running late.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 26, 2021 18:46:38 GMT 1
As posted above, they aren't through journeys, it's so they can be turned private if running late otherwise with so much interworking, they'd never catch up. Been on a 2 a few times that should work through to a 13/A, but has been turned around at Middleton to run private with the 13/A journey cancelled. As a side note, I'd scrap all the interworking on these routes, and sever the north/south link as there aren't many through passengers and it doesn't help with reliability. Evenings I think the 3/A interworks with a 12 at White Rose as well, so that's yet another complication. Just a point, the op is referring to the termini in North Leeds, rather than the ones to the South. in the 1990s I used to travel up to Street Lane regularly, so that would be the 2 now, but at the time it was route 2 up to Moortown Corner, then changed number to 12 for the journey back to Leeds and beyond. Oh I knew that lol, I was just giving an example of why they are shown as separate services rather than through ones. I could never understand why these areas are always linked, can't see many from Roundhay for example having any regular need to visit Belle Isle, and so on, so I wonder why all these areas have been linked for donkeys years? |
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kenh
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Post by kenh on Mar 27, 2021 12:32:52 GMT 1
Sorry to correct, but they are separate routes and don't have to run through officially, they just interwork as part of a schedule rather than as a through service. Don't forget, each one is registered separately, hence why they aren't shown in the timetable as through services. As I've already stated above in my Middleton example, when they reach the end, it's a great way of turning them private for the next leg if running late. but if you are actually running through then thats a customer benefit. when the 20 & 21 ran on street lane, we got on the first one that came to get to town. And many kids got the bus home to harehills. The 3/13 actually provide an alternative Moortown - Oakwood route. one served originally by the useful 38. |
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Steve Macz403
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Mar 27, 2021 23:41:40 GMT 1
Speaking of through services I have found with some of my friends. Who have found it handy to have the 12/13 go through from Belle Isle onto Roundhay Road.
Even had my old work manager who used to catch the 12/13 from Belle Isle to bottom of Roundhay road , he’d use it to get too the back end of St James Hospital. Rather than change bus to a 42/49/50 etc.
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Post by peteleeds on Mar 28, 2021 9:27:37 GMT 1
Prior to this incarnation of the 13 their used to be a 13 that went from middleton via city centre terminating at st james.
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A1YBG
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Post by A1YBG on Mar 28, 2021 14:25:25 GMT 1
Prior to this incarnation of the 13 their used to be a 13 that went from middleton via city centre terminating at st james. This was run by Quickstep travel at the time? Remember a 13 running to Jimmys |
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Steve Macz403
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Mar 29, 2021 14:57:35 GMT 1
I remember that variation it ran Middleton - Leeds - St James
For a period in the mid 90’s it linked with the old 6. Which too was a quickstep bus Rodley - Bramley - Armley - Leeds - East end park - St James to give a through service
Getting back to the Roundhay Road and chapeltown road services
We had many number variations of these routes include 2/3/20/20A/22/22A/ 24/25 for chapeltown and Dewsbury road buses
10/11/12/19/19A/21/21A/23/23A for Roundhay road and Belle Isle variations
Such a complex set of services - simplified in 2000 once overground and coloured lines came.
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Post by nic on Mar 29, 2021 22:55:20 GMT 1
I remember that variation it ran Middleton - Leeds - St James For a period in the mid 90’s it linked with the old 6. Which too was a quickstep bus Rodley - Bramley - Armley - Leeds - East end park - St James to give a through service Getting back to the Roundhay Road and chapeltown road services We had many number variations of these routes include 2/3/20/20A/22/22A/ 24/25 for chapeltown and Dewsbury road buses 10/11/12/19/19A/21/21A/23/23A for Roundhay road and Belle Isle variations Such a complex set of services - simplified in 2000 once overground and coloured lines came. Have you got any idea of the variations, frequencies and routes of all these route's they did? It seems very complex. |
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Apr 1, 2021 13:13:19 GMT 1
I just copied from an old post I did back in 2019 about yorkshire rider routes to give an idea of what went on. The group of Roundhay Road/ Chapeltown Road varieties You had the 2/3/20A/22A for Middleton 3/20/22A to Brackenwood 3/20A and Gledhow 22A and the 2 for Cottingley/White Rose (when that opened in 1997) - Roundhay Park ( Note the 3 and 2 routes were flipped round when Overground coloured lines scheme came in 2000) The 10(Main mon to Saturday route) Middleton Arms - Leeds - Roundhay Park 11 was used from time to time though not in the early nineties)/ 12 was a limited variation of 10 Middleton Thorpe Lane - Leeds - Roundhay Park) 13 was used but a quickstep Middleton - Leeds - St James variation) 19/19A/ Belle Isle Sharp House - Leeds - Roundhay Park, ran evening and Sunday's when the 10 didn't run. 22 I think did a Leeds - Belle Isle Sharp House (extended to Robin Hood and Rothwell) ( did a Mon to Sat Daytime version of the 19/19A) 21/21A/ 23/23A These both had their routes altered by late 90s. Both did a Middleton Thorpe Lane - Leeds - Brackenwood 21/21A or Gledhow 23/23A A split of routes created a daytime in the late 90s 21 Leeds - Brackenwood. (Extended to Moor Allerton centre similar to 38 routing from Lidgett Lane to King Lane Roundabout) 23 was simple just Leeds - Middleton thorpe Lane The evening and Sunday routes 21A/23A followed the original pattern above, Thorpe Lane- Leeds - brackenwood 21A/ Gledhow 23A Memories of these routes I travelled on a lot as a kid. On The Mcw Metrobuses.Got a bit disappointed if an Atlantean turned up as well at times, an Atlantean was on every other decker route out of Leeds in the 90s. Though I like the Atlantean as a Bus of Leeds.  These were then worked by Dennis Lances from 1995/96 onwards Then overground scheme came in and tidied these routes into 2/3/3A and 12/13/13A we know of today. |
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kenh
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Post by kenh on Apr 1, 2021 19:30:35 GMT 1
there are 1964 qnd 1974 timetables on timetable world.com
In the 1951 there were the trams. 3 went up roundhay road and across to Moortown, then back to town showing wherever it was going then. Probably a 1 Lawnswood. 2 did Chapletown road and over the top. There was a 36 to Gledhow. I assume it went up through Harehills. The 38 was already doing Moortown - Whitkirk.
By 1964 there was:-
2 from Dewsbury Rd - Moortown Chained Bull
2 Circular Dewsbury Rd - Moortown corner where it became a 3 circular to go back through Harehills, Town and to Middleton. Then back to town another way. Phew!
6 Roundhay - Belle Isle
12 Town - Middleton
There is a 1964 timetable on timetable world.
Then in 1967 it changes
2 from Dewsbury Rd - Moortown Chained Bull
3 from Middleton - Moortown Chained Bull.
20 from Dewsbury Rd - Moortown corner. became 21 to go back through Harehills
21 from Belle Isle - Roundhay where it became a 20 to go back down Chapeltown Rd to Dewsbury Rd
There was a 10 Roundhay - Middleton, a 12 Vicar Ln - Middleton, 18 Vicar Ln - Middleton Arms and 19 Middleton Arms - Roundhay. remember you can go to Middleton via Dewsbury Road or through Belle Isle.
There is a 1974 timetable on timetable world
And now we are back to 2's along Street Lane again!!!
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Post by nic on Apr 2, 2021 15:50:17 GMT 1
I just copied from an old post I did back in 2019 about yorkshire rider routes to give an idea of what went on. The group of Roundhay Road/ Chapeltown Road varieties You had the 2/3/20A/22A for Middleton 3/20/22A to Brackenwood 3/20A and Gledhow 22A and the 2 for Cottingley/White Rose (when that opened in 1997) - Roundhay Park ( Note the 3 and 2 routes were flipped round when Overground coloured lines scheme came in 2000) The 10(Main mon to Saturday route) Middleton Arms - Leeds - Roundhay Park 11 was used from time to time though not in the early nineties)/ 12 was a limited variation of 10 Middleton Thorpe Lane - Leeds - Roundhay Park) 13 was used but a quickstep Middleton - Leeds - St James variation) 19/19A/ Belle Isle Sharp House - Leeds - Roundhay Park, ran evening and Sunday's when the 10 didn't run. 22 I think did a Leeds - Belle Isle Sharp House (extended to Robin Hood and Rothwell) ( did a Mon to Sat Daytime version of the 19/19A) 21/21A/ 23/23A These both had their routes altered by late 90s. Both did a Middleton Thorpe Lane - Leeds - Brackenwood 21/21A or Gledhow 23/23A A split of routes created a daytime in the late 90s 21 Leeds - Brackenwood. (Extended to Moor Allerton centre similar to 38 routing from Lidgett Lane to King Lane Roundabout) 23 was simple just Leeds - Middleton thorpe Lane The evening and Sunday routes 21A/23A followed the original pattern above, Thorpe Lane- Leeds - brackenwood 21A/ Gledhow 23A Memories of these routes I travelled on a lot as a kid. On The Mcw Metrobuses.Got a bit disappointed if an Atlantean turned up as well at times, an Atlantean was on every other decker route out of Leeds in the 90s. Though I like the Atlantean as a Bus of Leeds. These were then worked by Dennis Lances from 1995/96 onwards Then overground scheme came in and tidied these routes into 2/3/3A and 12/13/13A we know of today. thank you for that information. Quite a list of services tbh. I guess the different variations was down to one service serving one road as opposed to the other and what not. 21/23 did they ever interwork with each other in Town? And I guess they terminated/began on Briggate/Vicar Lane? Didn't the Scania N113's eventually take this route on too? I don't see to remember it getting any of the B7TL's but rather went straight to B9TL's and now onto Street decks. |
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Post by jonny182 on Apr 4, 2021 19:18:31 GMT 1
Yes I do remember the Scania N113 double deckers being on the 2/3/3A and 12/13/13A in the late 90's into the early 2000's. I remember they re-furbished a handful of N113's into First Group corporate interior colour scheme of the time, individual seats (instead of the original bench seats), full length lighting strips on both sides of the saloon, and re-painted handrails, etc. 8011 H611 VNW was one from memory frequently used on these routes! There were a number of ALX400's on B7TL chassis on the 2/3/3A and 12/13/13A from around 2003 onwards for a few years. I remember a few of these had yellow/green line branding along with the "2/12 go 24 hour" also on some of the Plaxton Verdes back in 2003 when the 2 and 12 services ran hourly through the night, 24 hours a day every day. -edit- a link I just found of a photo of the interior of H611 VNW www.flickr.com/photos/bens_transport_photos/5518453022/ |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on May 3, 2021 16:37:20 GMT 1
These are defo not circular as I got a service 2 on Sunday morning from Old Lane junction intending to head towards Belle Isle, it was a massive 25 minute wait for the through number 12. The bus got to Middleton and terminated, not continuing on as a 13A for another 25 minutes resulting in myself and another passenger having to walk up to Middleton circus for that number 12.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on May 3, 2021 20:18:38 GMT 1
90% of journeys I've made on them have interworked, albeit have a 5 minute wait at Thorpe Lane. This is midweek and saturday though.
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