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Post by ajw11239 on May 10, 2018 13:41:11 GMT 1
It's coming up to that time of year around the second bank holiday in May, where the Coastliner timetable takes a step up with extra weekend services (followed in July usually during the school holidays where the same enhancements run 7 days a week).
However it seems they might not be returning properly this year. A couple of tweets by them mention the enhancements but only for the Saturday and Sunday of the Bank Holiday weekend:
If this is the case this has quite surprised me - having used the X40 during the weekends in June it's extremely well used (full loads every time) and it's very disappointing if that's being cut. Not sure if this might be something to do with the recent shortage of vehicles; resulting in not enough to consistently run extra services?
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Post by stevieinselby on May 10, 2018 16:03:25 GMT 1
I spotted that, and have tweeted back asking for clarification.
If they are cutting it, it's disappointing that the spin machine is in full force as usual, trying to pretend that it is good that they are running extra buses for 3 days instead of accepting that it is bad that they are not running extra buses for the whole summer as usual.
That said, last year the X40 and X43 only ran from 3 July to 1 September, so there's still time yet.
Edit: Just re-read my own notes, and it did indeed run on weekends from May half-term, it was only the weekday service that held back until July. So it does look like a cut.
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Post by ajw11239 on May 12, 2018 10:30:42 GMT 1
From what I've seen, they haven't replied to anyone about it so assumedly, you've not heard back yet.
Wouldn't surprise me if you did... at the end of the day, everything is amazing now!
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Post by stevieinselby on May 12, 2018 17:46:16 GMT 1
From what I've seen, they haven't replied to anyone about it so assumedly, you've not heard back yet. Wouldn't surprise me if you did... at the end of the day, everything is amazing now! That's what annoys me about Transdev - yes, they are doing some really good things, but it's the way they pretend every change is a huge improvement, even when it is quite clearly a significant degradation ... and a lot of cuts don't get announced at all.
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Post by neukit on May 12, 2018 19:01:47 GMT 1
From what I've seen, they haven't replied to anyone about it so assumedly, you've not heard back yet. Wouldn't surprise me if you did... at the end of the day, everything is amazing now! That's what annoys me about Transdev - yes, they are doing some really good things, but it's the way they pretend every change is a huge improvement, even when it is quite clearly a significant degradation ... and a lot of cuts don't get announced at all. Do Asda/Tesco/Morrison’s/Sainsbury’s tell you when they are putting their prices up, or just shout about their latest price reductions/offers? Do you get emails from any online businesses that you’ve bought from telling you they’ve put up some prices, or stopped stocking something you’ve bought ...or do they just contact you when they’ve got something to promote? That’s part of everyday marketing, ...it’s just that the bus industry (well the enlightened parts of it) have only really recently realised that they too are selling a marketable product.
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Post by deerfold on May 12, 2018 20:49:59 GMT 1
That's what annoys me about Transdev - yes, they are doing some really good things, but it's the way they pretend every change is a huge improvement, even when it is quite clearly a significant degradation ... and a lot of cuts don't get announced at all. Do Asda/Tesco/Morrison’s/Sainsbury’s tell you when they are putting their prices up, or just shout about their latest price reductions/offers? Do you get emails from any online businesses that you’ve bought from telling you they’ve put up some prices, or stopped stocking something you’ve bought ...or do they just contact you when they’ve got something to promote? That’s part of everyday marketing, ...it’s just that the bus industry (well the enlightened parts of it) have only really recently realised that they too are selling a marketable product. But overselling isn't good. Lots of people may try your product and then decide it doesn't live up to expectations and be more disappointed. Companies don't contact me when they're making their service worse to announce it's actually getting better. If they just announced "changes" when there's no actual improvements they'd get less negative feedback.
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Post by neukit on May 12, 2018 21:11:55 GMT 1
Do Asda/Tesco/Morrison’s/Sainsbury’s tell you when they are putting their prices up, or just shout about their latest price reductions/offers? Do you get emails from any online businesses that you’ve bought from telling you they’ve put up some prices, or stopped stocking something you’ve bought ...or do they just contact you when they’ve got something to promote? That’s part of everyday marketing, ...it’s just that the bus industry (well the enlightened parts of it) have only really recently realised that they too are selling a marketable product. But overselling isn't good. Lots of people may try your product and then decide it doesn't live up to expectations and be more disappointed. Companies don't contact me when they're making their service worse to announce it's actually getting better. If they just announced "changes" when there's no actual improvements they'd get less negative feedback. What is it that they’re overselling? They’re running some extra journeys over the May Bank Holiday weekend, and they’re telling people about them. Simple! The fact that some bus ‘enthusiasts’ will dig out their timetables from previous summers and make negative comparisons is entirely irrelevant in terms of promoting their services. How many times have you gone into your local supermarket and noticed them telling you about their “changes” when there’s no actual improvements? I’d be interested to see how you would have written the marketing message for these extra May Bank Holiday buses?
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Post by SCH117X on May 12, 2018 21:58:39 GMT 1
Maybe they want see what the loadings are like on the May Bank Holiday X services before pressing ahead with them over the summer.
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Post by ajw11239 on May 13, 2018 0:04:32 GMT 1
Another "Transdev can do no wrong".
-The X40 and extra 843 show on York's live bus times screens - and I've heard several people look at it and think the service is coming back. - Some of the timetables put on bus stops in York have the weekend Coastliner enhancements on, with the note -"runs from the late May bank holiday Sunday to September" (or something like that) so that's confusing. - I picked up a Coastliner timetable on the bus *yesterday* which shows the extra services running from next weekend and says nothing about it just being a one off for the May Bank Holiday. - On the iTravelYork website, the service change is listed as "summer timetable" from the weekend onwards.
It will be, like it or not, confusing for passengers. I don't think there's any way around that - particularly if they're still handing out timetables on their buses with incorrect services.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 13, 2018 0:21:09 GMT 1
Have Coastliner issued a new printed timetable? As since they went to an all year round timetable there isn’t the twice yearly summer and winter versions anymore.
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Post by ajw11239 on May 13, 2018 6:59:22 GMT 1
Just had a look at the timetables on my desk - in September when they changed the route in Scarborough there was a new version, which didn't have any additional services in it whatsoever. The timetable had on the front "from September 2017".
The one I picked up on the bus on Friday had the same "from September 2017" on the front, but does have additional services. The Mon-Fri enhancements are dated 3 July - 1 Sep, Sat ones 27 May - 2 Sep, Sun ones 27 May - 3 Sep.
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Post by stevieinselby on May 13, 2018 10:32:59 GMT 1
Maybe they want see what the loadings are like on the May Bank Holiday X services before pressing ahead with them over the summer. Given that they are required to give 6(?) weeks notice of any changes, if they are waiting to see what the loadings are like on the May bank holiday before registering the summer service, they wouldn't be able to start it until mid-July anyway. Which does raise the question of whether all of these last minute changes they make where they suddenly announce out of nowhere that they are running a service on bank holidays, or they don't announce that they have stopped running a service on bank holidays, are actually registered as changes...
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Post by ajw11239 on May 13, 2018 18:12:53 GMT 1
I'd also be surprised if they were suddenly concerned about the potential loadings. They've been running the summer enhancements for years. I used the x40 a good few times in May-June weekends and every one was pretty much completely full.
Judging by what you see on the evening buses out of Whitby during the summer, any of the long-distance services out of there are practically a license to print money....
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Post by gooderson1 on May 13, 2018 18:27:18 GMT 1
Are the routes a license to print money-possibly not. The other half and I spent last weekend in Whitby. The Coastline buses I saw were heavily loaded and there were a good number of folk waiting at the stop for the journey back to Leeds. The problem was that the majority of passengers appeared to be "of a certain age" and using the free bus pass. I believe that the contribution paid by WY Metro for the journey from Leeds is better than the amount paid by NYCC for the return trip. I would think that costs are not covered and this is possibly why enhancements to the timetable do not appear to taking place this summer.
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Post by stevieinselby on May 13, 2018 20:15:26 GMT 1
Are the routes a license to print money-possibly not. The other half and I spent last weekend in Whitby. The Coastline buses I saw were heavily loaded and there were a good number of folk waiting at the stop for the journey back to Leeds. The problem was that the majority of passengers appeared to be "of a certain age" and using the free bus pass. I believe that the contribution paid by WY Metro for the journey from Leeds is better than the amount paid by NYCC for the return trip. I would think that costs are not covered and this is possibly why enhancements to the timetable do not appear to taking place this summer. "The contribution paid by Leeds" only applies to passengers starting their journey in Leeds. For any starting in Tadcaster or Malton, it's still the paltry NYCC rates ... and for any starting in York, it's CYC rates, I don't know how they compare. This does raise the question of how long it's going to be before the last bus out of Whitby is full and standing, with the risk of leaving passengers behind ... not the end of the world if you're in Whitby because you have at least got the X93 and 843 to get you home, but if the bus pulls into Goathland to find a long queue of passengers waiting to board, there could be some trouble.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 13, 2018 21:57:53 GMT 1
To be fair, I’m surprised that doesn’t happen already, if everyone who arrived on multiple buses all wanted to leave on the last bus.
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Post by stevieinselby on May 13, 2018 22:36:49 GMT 1
To be fair, I’m surprised that doesn’t happen already, if everyone who arrived on multiple buses all wanted to leave on the last bus. With the timetable they had last year, the X40 left 45/50 minutes before the last 840. That was a smart move, because it meant that there was the incentive of a quicker journey (20 minutes quicker to York, 30 minutes quicker to Leeds) for people catching the earlier bus, and so that will have helped to spread the load over the two homeward journeys. But now, with the previous journey at 1500 (Monday to Saturday) and 1200 (Sunday), everybody who is there for the day will stay til the end and all pile into the last bus.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on May 14, 2018 8:27:32 GMT 1
Maybe they want see what the loadings are like on the May Bank Holiday X services before pressing ahead with them over the summer. Given that they are required to give 6(?) weeks notice of any changes, if they are waiting to see what the loadings are like on the May bank holiday before registering the summer service, they wouldn't be able to start it until mid-July anyway. Which does raise the question of whether all of these last minute changes they make where they suddenly announce out of nowhere that they are running a service on bank holidays, or they don't announce that they have stopped running a service on bank holidays, are actually registered as changes... It was up until the 23rd April 8 weeks (56-days) notice, the DfT then changed (with -1 days notice to operators & 0 days to the licensing office) the rules to 6 weeks (42-days) notice to the Licensing Office but 4 weeks (28-days) 'consultation' with local authorities before, so potentially 10-weeks (70-days) though the councils don't have to take the full 28-days. So for changes for the start of the summer holidays, the consultations went to the local authorities last week and even under the old rules it would have been the week before the Bank Holiday weekend. Short-notice applications still apply & duplication is legal and unless someone has actually seen the registration we don't actually know what Transdev have registered in terms of days of operation as that could be different from the marketing message (if they are only doing it during the 'high summer' or school holidays they may refrain from including it now to avoid confusing customers who may misunderstand and think it runs from now until then).
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on May 14, 2018 9:15:12 GMT 1
Are the routes a license to print money-possibly not. The other half and I spent last weekend in Whitby. The Coastline buses I saw were heavily loaded and there were a good number of folk waiting at the stop for the journey back to Leeds. The problem was that the majority of passengers appeared to be "of a certain age" and using the free bus pass. I believe that the contribution paid by WY Metro for the journey from Leeds is better than the amount paid by NYCC for the return trip. I would think that costs are not covered and this is possibly why enhancements to the timetable do not appear to taking place this summer. This does raise the question of how long it's going to be before the last bus out of Whitby is full and standing, with the risk of leaving passengers behind ... not the end of the world if you're in Whitby because you have at least got the X93 and 843 to get you home, but if the bus pulls into Goathland to find a long queue of passengers waiting to board, there could be some trouble. Apparently this very thing happened in 2008, when the Free pass travel started. That year, Easter was in mid-March, so, the first Bank Holiday Monday was in May. The first Scarborough bus from Leeds left full, and, apparently the last one back to Leeds, had to leave about 10 passengers, due to being full, as they're not allowed standing passengers. This was told to other bus drivers by a Coastliner driver.
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Post by SCH117X on May 14, 2018 21:31:43 GMT 1
If they do find that happening it will be expensive for them as based on recent events elsewhere in Transdev Blazefield land they will refund taxi fares.
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Post by northerner on May 14, 2018 21:56:11 GMT 1
If they do find that happening it will be expensive for them as based on recent events elsewhere in Transdev Blazefield land they will refund taxi fares. And so they (and all other operators) should do if service failings occur within their control
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Post by ajw11239 on May 14, 2018 22:38:36 GMT 1
So looking at the Twitter feed today:
"there are no changes planned for 20 May".
It would seem that for now, there aren't any enhancements (at least between now and July).
The person who tweeted about it has pointed out that in the WYmetro list of changes, it lists "the summer timetable... being introduced". I used the Coastliner on Sunday afternoon and picked up a timetable to check - and they're still giving out the timetables showing enhancements running from late May to September. I can see this causing a lot of irritation... But no doubt, if you ask Transdev this is, like everything else, all "amazing".
Interesting point about taxi fares etc for passengers left behind. All X40s I've been on (the 17:00 ex Whitby) have been full, some with standees. If I make a very conservative estimate of 15 passengers that also get the later, last bus - then that's it, guaranteed to leave people behind. The X40 usually then picks up more passengers later on too at Pickering and Kirby Misperton, and rarely does anyone get off before Malton.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 14, 2018 22:47:08 GMT 1
What’s not to say that those extra journeys running for the bank holiday may also be running during high summer, they just won’t announce it in the marketing until closer to the time?
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Post by stevieinselby on May 14, 2018 23:24:38 GMT 1
Interesting point about taxi fares etc for passengers left behind. All X40s I've been on (the 17:00 ex Whitby) have been full, some with standees. If I make a very conservative estimate of 15 passengers that also get the later, last bus - then that's it, guaranteed to leave people behind. The X40 usually then picks up more passengers later on too at Pickering and Kirby Misperton, and rarely does anyone get off before Malton. At least for passengers from Thornton le Dale, Pickering and Flamingo Land, there is a later bus, although it only runs to Malton, and onward connections are a bit on the crap side ... good on Sunday, but a 30 minute wait during the week and an hour's wait on Saturday. But yes, I foresee chaos.
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Post by ajw11239 on May 14, 2018 23:29:58 GMT 1
What’s not to say that those extra journeys running for the bank holiday may also be running during high summer, they just won’t announce it in the marketing until closer to the time? Sorry, wasn't very clear about that. Have reworded it slightly
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