zac1
Forum Member
Posts: 54
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Post by zac1 on Mar 3, 2018 16:55:41 GMT 1
i would first of all i would like to thank everyone who helped me regarding Keighley to Skipton routes and when they were withdrawn, but i have just a couple of questions on the 71/72 is it true that these routes transferred from Keighley and District to Pride of the Dales and now North Yorkshire Council?
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Post by deerfold on Mar 3, 2018 17:36:18 GMT 1
The 72 transferred from Keighley & District to Pride of the Dales. Upper Wharfedale Bus CIC took over most of Grassington to Buckden. Most of what's left with PotD will be operated by K&D again from April. NYCC only operate a school journey. www.dalesbus.org/uploads/1/1/3/9/113919127/72.pdf |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 4, 2018 0:32:09 GMT 1
POTD have been running the service between Skipton and Grassington since (at least) 2003 IIRC. There was a brief period when NYCC were putting quite a bit of money into what they saw as key rural bus routes, and there were about 5 or 6 that got treated to new low floor buses and an hourly core service. The Upper Wharfedale corridor was one of the beneficiaries of this programme, but like most of the others it has withered as time has gone on, with a reduction in frequency and loss of through journeys.
The current timetable is about as messy as it is possible to be, with the Skipton - Grassington - Buckden route split between a total of four different operators, different timetables during school holidays, and connections not always well timed. But hey, it's apparently saving NYCC money, so all is well with the world...
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 4, 2018 11:49:27 GMT 1
Is having different timetables for school holidays a bad thing? Surprised it does not happen more, there is, for example, absolutely no chance of Connexions X1 running to time in the normal school day peak periods with the journey time twix Harrogate bus station and Knaresborough High Street being impossible by car non stop, but may be achievable in school holidays. The other week three X1s were relatively close to each other in the stationary queue on Knaresborough Road in the am peak Harrogate bound with front one presumably being around 50 minutes late.
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Post by deerfold on Mar 4, 2018 14:07:29 GMT 1
Is having different timetables for school holidays a bad thing? Surprised it does not happen more, there is, for example, absolutely no chance of Connexions X1 running to time in the normal school day peak periods with the journey time twix Harrogate bus station and Knaresborough High Street being impossible by car non stop, but may be achievable in school holidays. The other week three X1s were relatively close to each other in the stationary queue on Knaresborough Road in the am peak Harrogate bound with front one presumably being around 50 minutes late. That's not unreasonable - but with the 72/A/B there are services that only run some days, one that runs part of the route 3 hours later if it's not a schoolday - by a different operator... |
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Post by jep2510 on Mar 4, 2018 15:20:23 GMT 1
Is having different timetables for school holidays a bad thing? Surprised it does not happen more, there is, for example, absolutely no chance of Connexions X1 running to time in the normal school day peak periods with the journey time twix Harrogate bus station and Knaresborough High Street being impossible by car non stop, but may be achievable in school holidays. The other week three X1s were relatively close to each other in the stationary queue on Knaresborough Road in the am peak Harrogate bound with front one presumably being around 50 minutes late. Bit harsh singling out Connexionsbuses in that example, Transdev services suffer just as bad along the Knaresborough Road corridor! |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 4, 2018 16:54:17 GMT 1
Is having different timetables for school holidays a bad thing? There's a couple of points there. In principle, I don't like it, because it adds extra complication for passengers, and people without kids might not know when the holidays are (not to mention that neighbouring councils don't always have the same term dates). In some cases, it might make sense to allow extra running time or run additional journeys at school times. But that's not what's happening on the 72 group - they have some journeys running at completely different times, which as far as I can tell is just around when NYCC have a vehicle that isn't need for school runs. |
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zac1
Forum Member
Posts: 54
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Post by zac1 on Mar 4, 2018 18:23:28 GMT 1
what happened to the 71?
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 4, 2018 21:30:06 GMT 1
POTD called them all 72, whether they ran to Grassington, Hebden or Buckden. |
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Post by northerner on Mar 4, 2018 22:02:06 GMT 1
Is having different timetables for school holidays a bad thing? Surprised it does not happen more, there is, for example, absolutely no chance of Connexions X1 running to time in the normal school day peak periods with the journey time twix Harrogate bus station and Knaresborough High Street being impossible by car non stop, but may be achievable in school holidays. The other week three X1s were relatively close to each other in the stationary queue on Knaresborough Road in the am peak Harrogate bound with front one presumably being around 50 minutes late. I think school holiday timetables would be a good thing, particularly over the summer 6 week holiday period when traffic levels are much lower than the rest of the year. I did suggest this to Transdev Keighley as the 662 has a habit of running early when its half term and their response was it would confuse the drivers. So the early running continues |
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Post by neukit on Mar 5, 2018 0:20:24 GMT 1
There's a huge difference between running a school holiday variation on a busy urban route where the traffic may be lighter, and a rural area where the bus may have no requirement to even be there!
The NYCC 72A journeys purely exist because they happen to fit around a school contract requirement. However, in most instances the UWB 72B is able to provide an alternative travel opportunity during school holidays (and on Saturdays). The main 72 doesn't have any Sch/NSch variations.
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 5, 2018 0:40:05 GMT 1
The NYCC 72A journeys purely exist because they happen to fit around a school contract requirement. However, in most instances the UWB 72B is able to provide an alternative travel opportunity during school holidays (and on Saturdays). The main 72 doesn't have any Sch/NSch variations. Between Skipton and Grassington, there is one journey each way that runs SD only – but it isn't at times that you would expect a schoolday-only service to run: 0935 from Grassington and 1340 from Skipton, which both journeys running to/from Buckden. I can't for the life of me figure out how that fits around a school journey anywhere! From Grassington to Buckden, there is one NYCC journey that runs SD only, and two UWV journeys that run SSH only, but nowhere near the time of the NYCC journey. From Buckden to Grassington, there are two NYCC journeys that run SD only, and two UWV journeys that run SSH only, in the same kind of time frame as the NYCC journeys but one is half an hour earlier and the other is half an hour later. It would make more sense if NYCC just kept out of it, and POTD/TIK and UWV just ran the same service 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year – there might be a very slight increase in operational costs, but the benefits to passengers of not needing to know when school holidays are and having a simpler and more straight-forward timetable would outweigh that. |
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 5, 2018 18:47:41 GMT 1
Bit harsh singling out Connexionsbuses in that example, Transdev services suffer just as bad along the Knaresborough Road corridor! Correct but Connexions timetable is more obviously available in terms of timings while Transdevs is a every 7 minute frequency and seeing three X1s in quick succession is pretty odd (for the record their were only three Transdev vehicles with them in the queue whereas if the X1s were on time you would expect double the number of Transdev vehicles). |
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Post by neukit on Mar 5, 2018 20:23:47 GMT 1
The NYCC 72A journeys purely exist because they happen to fit around a school contract requirement. However, in most instances the UWB 72B is able to provide an alternative travel opportunity during school holidays (and on Saturdays). The main 72 doesn't have any Sch/NSch variations. Between Skipton and Grassington, there is one journey each way that runs SD only – but it isn't at times that you would expect a schoolday-only service to run: 0935 from Grassington and 1340 from Skipton, which both journeys running to/from Buckden. I can't for the life of me figure out how that fits around a school journey anywhere! From Grassington to Buckden, there is one NYCC journey that runs SD only, and two UWV journeys that run SSH only, but nowhere near the time of the NYCC journey. From Buckden to Grassington, there are two NYCC journeys that run SD only, and two UWV journeys that run SSH only, in the same kind of time frame as the NYCC journeys but one is half an hour earlier and the other is half an hour later. It would make more sense if NYCC just kept out of it, and POTD/TIK and UWV just ran the same service 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year – there might be a very slight increase in operational costs, but the benefits to passengers of not needing to know when school holidays are and having a simpler and more straight-forward timetable would outweigh that. The NYCC bus does two school runs. First it takes some HS pupils from the upper dales into Grassington, before taking some younger pupils up to the PS at Kettlewell. Then the other way round in the afternoon. Therefore, as I said before, the NYCC 72A journeys make perfect sense, as the bus would otherwise run empty to/from their depot in Skipton. During school holidays, and on Saturdays, the community run minibus provides an alternative option by leaving a little earlier in the morning and connecting with the 72 at Grassington. Rather than running empty back up to Buckden, it sensibly offers a connection up the Dale too. Later in the day, it again runs down the Dale a little later to make another connection at Grassington for Skipton, and once again it then offers a connection to go back up to Buckden, rather than running empty!! All perfectly sensible, and with through fares, relatively straightforward. Providing bus services in rural areas is a completely different ball game, when compared with urban town and cities, so a one size fits all way of thinking won't work for both. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 5, 2018 23:53:15 GMT 1
The latest graphic says Transdev are running an hourly service, which if true is an improvement over the slightly irregular service that's sometimes about hourly and sometimes about 2-hourly that is shown for the new timetable on Dalesbus.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 5, 2018 23:59:24 GMT 1
I can’t see it being hourly as it seems to take about 70 mins do a round trip.
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Post by neukit on Mar 6, 2018 0:51:26 GMT 1
I can’t see it being hourly as it seems to take about 70 mins do a round trip. It isn't hourly throughout the day. There are still some 2 hour gaps. The timetable is already on the dalesbus website, as per the link near the start of the thread. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 6, 2018 13:09:51 GMT 1
I can’t see it being hourly as it seems to take about 70 mins do a round trip. It isn't hourly throughout the day. There are still some 2 hour gaps. The timetable is already on the dalesbus website, as per the link near the start of the thread. That's begging the question, though. Transdev have said it will be hourly in their tweet. It is not unknown for a draft timetable put forward by the council to be changed by the operator, particularly if they are running more journeys than they are funded for. |
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 6, 2018 21:08:12 GMT 1
Updale Venturer have stated
We are looking forward to working with the Keighley Bus Company when they take over the 72 Grassington - Skipton route from Pride of the Dales on 16th April. Watch this space for details of the new timetable, with faster journey times from updale down to Skipton
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Post by deerfold on Mar 8, 2018 0:51:36 GMT 1
Going back to April 1976, West Yorkshire operated the 71 Skipton - Grassington-Buckden/Hebden.
The service to Grassington was roughly hourly 0700-1920 then 2120 and 2240. 3 services a day extended to Hebden, 4 to Kettlewell; These 3 extended to Buckden on a Wednesday. On Summer Tuesdays and Fridays an extra 71A ran, to Buckden and then to Hawes or Leyburn.
Winter Sundays a 2-hourly service (7 a day) ran Skipton to Grassington - nothing beyond.
Summer Sundays there are 9 services to Grassington. There is a 63 from Grassington to Buckden at 1050, missing the first bus from Skipton, then an X70 on the same route, then the 1310 from Skipton (1415 at Grassington) is an 84B to Kettlewell. This bus started at 1035 in York and came via Harrogate and Blubberhouses. There's a 650 Grassington to Kettlewell at 1550 and 2 71s Grassington to Kettlewell at 1715 and 1800 - the second started in Skipton and continues to Buckden.
The 63 started at Bradford as a 650 at 0905.
The 650 started at Bradford at 1405. As well as returning from Kettlewell at 1735, there is a 674 from Grassington to Bradford at 1555 via Pateley Bridge, Harrogate and Leeds/Bradford Airport.
The X70 started at Leeds at 1040, travelling via Bradford. The 84B has a 651 connection from Bradford at 1225. The 1715 starts at Ilkley at 1610 as a 772, the 1800 has a connecting 772 from Ilkley at 1710.
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 10, 2018 23:09:34 GMT 1
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Post by Solent and Wessex on Mar 15, 2018 2:45:59 GMT 1
When my family moved to Skipton in 1993 the 71 / 72 was still operated by Keighley & District, but only briefly. It was, if I remember correctly, in 1994 that Pride of the Dales took over off-peak services between Skipton and Grassington, and also the 73 Greenacres Circular.
There was a period of a few years when K&D ran the services which coincided with school times, including to and from Buckden. I have a timetable at home. These often used to run as service 271 or 272 between Grassington, Skipton and Keighley at the start and end of the duties. I remember having a part time job in the early summer of 1997 and using it to travel down the Aire Valley in a morning, a very fast run down the bypass on an Olympian was far quicker than trundling through Cononley or Kildwick as the normal services did.
It was around 1999 - 2000 when the final school services were re-let by NYCC to coach firms such as Hargreaves and K&D disappeared off the route.
There was also the wonderful service 76, one of the last to use K&D Nationals, which was an NYCC tendered service Skipton to Grassington via Embsay, Eastby, Halton East, Bolton Abbey, Appletreewick, Burnsall. In 1993 when we moved it still had daytime services all year round, i.e. not just school buses, but again within a year or two it had dropped to be a schooldays only service.
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