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Post by the110 on Feb 6, 2017 16:54:01 GMT 1
I've been told by an union official that the 110 service is to be downgraded this year "desapphired" due to cost issues. I woundered if anyone on here could shed anymore light on this?
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Post by Penfold on Feb 6, 2017 18:40:50 GMT 1
I've been told by an union official that the 110 service is to be downgraded this year "desapphired" due to cost issues. I woundered if anyone on here could shed anymore light on this? From Monday 20th February 110's will be merged into all rotas due to it costing too much money to run on a stand alone link. As Im led to believe presumably as one of the 'things' that make Sapphire is dedicated drivers then the Sapphire brand can no longer continue. Passenger growth has not happened neither as Arriva thought it would when it became Sapphire. The question of what happens to buses is yet to be seen. Penfold |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 6, 2017 18:53:30 GMT 1
Those rules are only set by Arriva themselves though so I'm sure they can ignore that bit and carry on regardless.
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Post by passenger859 on Feb 6, 2017 22:06:03 GMT 1
Strange move really. They could have perhaps tried other things to improve passenger growth such as run it to Leeds South Parade (like 444/6) which would also save financial cost associated with going into LCBS. I've often used 444/6 home from Wakey as it goes closer to my gaff in Leeds.
Any news on other Sapphires? I went to Wilmslow on 130 on Sat. Always surprised this became Sapphire with only an hourly service along the full route. 263 probably does okay between Alty and Manchester City Centre but great competition from tram along a lot of the route.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 23:11:11 GMT 1
On the off chance if this was true, didn't I hear new Enviro400MMCs were planned for the 163 and 166 in Sapphire livery, instead this move to de-brand the 110 service could possibly see the existing Sapphire Enviro400s move over onto the Castleford runs in return for hybrids which therefore will be used like First's as they'll probably go onto the 110 but will work on different routes on the same board. Just a theory.
Michael Windle
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Post by alx400 on Feb 7, 2017 11:02:00 GMT 1
I've been told by an union official that the 110 service is to be downgraded this year "desapphired" due to cost issues. I woundered if anyone on here could shed anymore light on this? From Monday 20th February 110's will be merged into all rotas due to it costing too much money to run on a stand alone link. As Im led to believe presumably as one of the 'things' that make Sapphire is dedicated drivers then the Sapphire brand can no longer continue. Passenger growth has not happened neither as Arriva thought it would when it became Sapphire. The question of what happens to buses is yet to be seen. Penfold Are they keeping them on their own boards or going to start interworking? If they stay on their own boards theyll probably keep it as a sapphire service with the same buses but just have it as duty pieces in roster shifts on all rotas, a friend of mine used to work at wakie and was on 110 rota and tried to get off it as he hated it but couldnt due to drivers being unwilling to go on rota for same reason |
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Post by Penfold on Feb 7, 2017 17:34:00 GMT 1
On the off chance if this was true, didn't I hear new Enviro400MMCs were planned for the 163 and 166 in Sapphire livery, instead this move to de-brand the 110 service could possibly see the existing Sapphire Enviro400s move over onto the Castleford runs in return for hybrids which therefore will be used like First's as they'll probably go onto the 110 but will work on different routes on the same board. Just a theory. Michael Windle Yes the 163 & 166 are supposedly going Sapphire and I believe there was also a rumour that the buses (on the 110's) were to be rebranded for those routes. Penfold |
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Post by Penfold on Feb 7, 2017 17:43:45 GMT 1
From Monday 20th February 110's will be merged into all rotas due to it costing too much money to run on a stand alone link. As Im led to believe presumably as one of the 'things' that make Sapphire is dedicated drivers then the Sapphire brand can no longer continue. Passenger growth has not happened neither as Arriva thought it would when it became Sapphire. The question of what happens to buses is yet to be seen. Penfold Are they keeping them on their own boards or going to start interworking? If they stay on their own boards theyll probably keep it as a sapphire service with the same buses but just have it as duty pieces in roster shifts on all rotas, a friend of mine used to work at wakie and was on 110 rota and tried to get off it as he hated it but couldnt due to drivers being unwilling to go on rota for same reason Staying on their own boards. There has been a 'falling out' of drivers but mainly due to the tight running times (changed very little over the past few years) and very little recovery time with drivers unwilling to help each other out. The so called prestigious route has really suffered and when asked for ideas of how to make it better, the comments of putting more buses on the route and (even more) extra running time, fell on deaf ears due to it costing too much money ! ...and it wont get any better soon neither ! Penfold |
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Post by passenger859 on Feb 7, 2017 19:19:01 GMT 1
As I said above, a simple way to make 110 better would be to extend it further into Leeds City Centre, like indeed the 163/6.
I've often used 444/6 as they go nearer to where I need to alight in Leeds.
Anyone know the Sapphires at other (non AYL) depots having similar issues with the dedicated driver?
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Feb 7, 2017 19:40:26 GMT 1
Does the 110 need to serve Hall Green terminus? I realise that there is a stretch of the 110 between Kettlethorpe and Hall Green that isn't served by a regular bus, but could all 110s terminate at a point near to or where a regular bus route is met? Could the 444 run the full route to Hall Green for every daytime journey to replace 110? Also, could the 110 run non stop from First Direct to Leeds, quite possibly saving 5 mins as that stretch is already heavily served?
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kuyoyo
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Post by kuyoyo on Feb 7, 2017 20:18:19 GMT 1
I've been told by an union official that the 110 service is to be downgraded this year "desapphired" due to cost issues. I woundered if anyone on here could shed anymore light on this? From Monday 20th February 110's will be merged into all rotas due to it costing too much money to run on a stand alone link. As Im led to believe presumably as one of the 'things' that make Sapphire is dedicated drivers then the Sapphire brand can no longer continue. Passenger growth has not happened neither as Arriva thought it would when it became Sapphire. The question of what happens to buses is yet to be seen. Penfold That aspect of Sapphire has started to disappear recently. Certainly here in the North East - Whitby and Ashington depots don't have a dedicated Sapphire rota either due to the depot size (Whitby only have a PVR of 11 at this time of the year, rising to 15 at the height of the summer peak season) or due to the PVR of the Sapphire route (Ashington's X21/X22 have a PVR of 15, more than any of Ashington's standard routes or MAX workings). So, it's not unknown for Sapphire routes to not have a dedicated driving team and for it to still be a Sapphire route. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 7, 2017 20:49:49 GMT 1
As I said above, a simple way to make 110 better would be to extend it further into Leeds City Centre, like indeed the 163/6. I've often used 444/6 as they go nearer to where I need to alight in Leeds. Anyone know the Sapphires at other (non AYL) depots having similar issues with the dedicated driver? That would make reliability worse not better and they've have to add extra buses just to maintain the same frequency. You'd end up with 110s joining all the rest of the buses queueing on Boar Lane |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 20:53:26 GMT 1
Saying this about the 110 Sapphire brand, I've noticed that I've seen at least one of the Sapphires on the 117 each day lately, a sign of things to come maybe or is there just a shortage?
Michael Windle
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Post by Penfold on Feb 7, 2017 21:18:28 GMT 1
Saying this about the 110 Sapphire brand, I've noticed that I've seen at least one of the Sapphires on the 117 each day lately, a sign of things to come maybe or is there just a shortage? Michael Windle Probably just a shortage due to several serious accident damages of late. Penfold |
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Feb 7, 2017 21:30:58 GMT 1
Although it would be used, an extension to city square wouldn't be that essential as you can walk from the bus station to city square in 10 mins. It's terminated at the bus station probably since it was first created. Personally I'd have every bus terminating on the edge of the city centre with only the 5 running through every 5 mins for the elderly/disabled. We are a nation of lazy fatties with an NHS struggling to cope!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 22:01:59 GMT 1
Does the 110 need to serve Hall Green terminus YES¬!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by passenger859 on Feb 8, 2017 8:19:40 GMT 1
Looking back it may have made more sense to Sapphire the 415 and have gone with the Max brand for 110.
110 has already has high patronage. Were they expecting to grow it to a frequency more regular than every 10 mins?
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Post by alx400 on Feb 8, 2017 11:28:21 GMT 1
I think sapphire came too late to yorkshire, when max came it was a time when wifi wasnt on most buses and plug sockets were never seen, nowadays every company has wifi buses and sockets and other gimmicks to pull people onto thatbus so its not such a wow factor, the most logical way to improve patronage is to look at some of the short hop fares, some routes you can go from one town to another for £1.50 but another route you cant go 4 stops for that, i understand this is done due to competition but it doesnt make people who catch a bus every now and then and different services see how cheap buses can be for short town hops
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Post by westridingbuses on Feb 8, 2017 11:57:14 GMT 1
The 202/203 routes or the 268/268A would be good candidates for an upgrade to Sapphire, and have the 110 as a Max route. Just swap the Sapphire and Max Enviros between Belle Isle and Dewsbury or Heckmondwike and a quick rebrand and all would be good. Probably won't happen but just an idea! Plus the only downside is the 110 route would end up using 9 year old Enviro400s if it was to be swapped with the 268 buses.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 12:04:11 GMT 1
I think sapphire came too late to yorkshire, when max came it was a time when wifi wasnt on most buses and plug sockets were never seen, nowadays every company has wifi buses and sockets and other gimmicks to pull people onto thatbus so its not such a wow factor, the most logical way to improve patronage is to look at some of the short hop fares, some routes you can go from one town to another for £1.50 but another route you cant go 4 stops for that, i understand this is done due to competition but it doesnt make people who catch a bus every now and then and different services see how cheap buses can be for short town hops What would be nice is something to be to a similar spec to the 36 and Coastliner if the Sapphire is supposed to be high standard which would make more of an impact. Michael Windle |
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 9, 2017 9:35:13 GMT 1
Looking back it may have made more sense to Sapphire the 415 and have gone with the Max brand for 110. 110 has already has high patronage. Were they expecting to grow it to a frequency more regular than every 10 mins? The other reason for Sapphiring the 415 is that it is more distinct from the other routes out of Selby. Everything else the depot runs is bog standard, so whether you have MAX or Sapphire buses, they are different and for that route alone. Whereas the other depots across West Yorkshire there are MAX routes 126/127, 202/203 and 268 (sorry, not sure which depots they are run from) as well as Sapphire 110. Having these fine gradations in service levels, as well as the complexities of scheduling particular buses on an ever-smaller number of diagrams, doesn't make a lot of sense, whereas having the 110 as MAX in line with other similar routes nearby would make things a lot easier for them. |
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Post by mutty on Feb 9, 2017 13:11:39 GMT 1
Looking back it may have made more sense to Sapphire the 415 and have gone with the Max brand for 110. 110 has already has high patronage. Were they expecting to grow it to a frequency more regular than every 10 mins? The other reason for Sapphiring the 415 is that it is more distinct from the other routes out of Selby. Everything else the depot runs is bog standard, so whether you have MAX or Sapphire buses, they are different and for that route alone. Whereas the other depots across West Yorkshire there are MAX routes 126/127, 202/203 and 268 (sorry, not sure which depots they are run from) as well as Sapphire 110. Having these fine gradations in service levels, as well as the complexities of scheduling particular buses on an ever-smaller number of diagrams, doesn't make a lot of sense, whereas having the 110 as MAX in line with other similar routes nearby would make things a lot easier for them. 126/7 Dewsbury depot 202/3 Dewsbury depot 268/A Heckmondwike depot |
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Feb 9, 2017 16:34:41 GMT 1
The 202/203 routes or the 268/268A would be good candidates for an upgrade to Sapphire, and have the 110 as a Max route. Just swap the Sapphire and Max Enviros between Belle Isle and Dewsbury or Heckmondwike and a quick rebrand and all would be good. Probably won't happen but just an idea! Plus the only downside is the 110 route would end up using 9 year old Enviro400s if it was to be swapped with the 268 buses. I asked an Heckmondwike employee, if she would like, 268/A to upgrade to Sapphire grade, she replied, there wouldn't be enough drivers prepared to do a full time rota, which, I believe, is possibly one of the reasons, why the 110 is getting de-Sapphired |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Feb 11, 2017 23:12:56 GMT 1
Looking back it may have made more sense to Sapphire the 415 and have gone with the Max brand for 110. 110 has already has high patronage. Were they expecting to grow it to a frequency more regular than every 10 mins? The other reason for Sapphiring the 415 is that it is more distinct from the other routes out of Selby. Everything else the depot runs is bog standard, so whether you have MAX or Sapphire buses, they are different and for that route alone. Whereas the other depots across West Yorkshire there are MAX routes 126/127, 202/203 and 268 (sorry, not sure which depots they are run from) as well as Sapphire 110. Having these fine gradations in service levels, as well as the complexities of scheduling particular buses on an ever-smaller number of diagrams, doesn't make a lot of sense, whereas having the 110 as MAX in line with other similar routes nearby would make things a lot easier for them. Yes, having the MAX brand for all routes that run from adjacent garages like Belle Isle & Dewsbury would be simpler for one-off vehicle loans between garages. Selby is further east and quite a way east even of Castleford. |
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Post by welshman on May 22, 2017 21:57:58 GMT 1
Strange move really. They could have perhaps tried other things to improve passenger growth such as run it to Leeds South Parade (like 444/6) which would also save financial cost associated with going into LCBS. I've often used 444/6 home from Wakey as it goes closer to my gaff in Leeds. Any news on other Sapphires? I went to Wilmslow on 130 on Sat. Always surprised this became Sapphire with only an hourly service along the full route. 263 probably does okay between Alty and Manchester City Centre but great competition from tram along a lot of the route. Although out of the area, Arriva Bus Wales Sapphire route 12 from Rhyl-Llandudno has recently been reduced from a 10 to a 12 minute frequency [6 busses per hour to 5]. The brand is also being diluted. Occasionally a single deck or even an open-top dd is seen on the service, and "Sapphire" branded-buses have been seen on the route 11 Rhyl-Holywell-Chester, and even on the 83 Rhyl Town services! I suppose it's Arriva matching demand to availablity. Incidentally, what is the inspiration for the "Max" branding? Service 51 Rhyl-Denbigh [amd x51 Denbigh=Wrexham]see mainly single-deck "Maxs" but occasionally dd. Sapphires. |
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