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Post by Craig on Jan 6, 2017 23:57:20 GMT 1
Tried getting a clue from the WYCA Leeds Sub Committee notes as to why the 2/3/3A and 12/13/13A are having a route change. I was hoping it's because that stupid single lane crappy historic (yawn, get real) Leeds Bridge is to be demolished or widened, after all it's one of the causes of bottlenecks in Leeds on approaches from South Leeds. Can't be Vicar Lane closure again surely not? Just an observation I made, and I know VOSA registration details are sketchy at best, but "White Rose" has appeared on the new 12/13/13A registration where it never existed before. I've long thought First should extend some of these buses (probably on service 12) to White Rose Centre as the only bus linking these areas is the hourly 9 service. It could perhaps also help with reliability of these services by allowing the end of interworking at Thorpe Lane. Taking my thoughts further, the 2/3/3A route change could be Cottingley not being served in the evenings, as I note a new 55C is registered and I believe when the 55 was rerouted to Parkwood last year it was planned to take over the Cottingley evening service but this didn't happen. The existing 2/3/12/13 evening timetable would quite happily allow an extended 12 and the 3/3A to interwork at White Rose using the same number of buses... (all just theory so I could be completely off the mark here!). It would also be nice for the rather extreme padding in the evening timetable on these routes to be trimmed back.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jan 7, 2017 0:14:43 GMT 1
Good point, Personally I now suspect all number 12s will continue to White Rose and interwork with the 3/3A whilst the 2 and 13/A will no longer interwork. I know that through services have always been needed to connect people to various places in South Leeds such as Dewsbury Road to the St George's clinic and Bodmin Estate to Asda or Hunslet. Interworking the 12 and 3/3A maintains links, abet with a bit of a walk if you live on the Bodmin's, and provides good connectivity with White Rose from Hunslet and Belle Isle.
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Post by twansport on Jan 7, 2017 13:34:55 GMT 1
Is anyone aware what the changes to the exit to Leeds bus station are? These are mentioned in the Leeds District Sub Committee notes.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 7, 2017 14:16:21 GMT 1
Is anyone aware what the changes to the exit to Leeds bus station are? These are mentioned in the Leeds District Sub Committee notes. I don't know, but it'd be good if a right turn could be created. I know the cycle superhighway will be extended along St Peter's Street in due course
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 8, 2017 21:40:47 GMT 1
Offical VOSA entries (some changes already discussed/noted)
PB1003659/54 HARROGATE COACH TRAVEL LTD, SECTION 3, SOUTHFIELD LANE, TOCKWITH, YORK, YO26 7QP Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and St James Retail Park given service number X1C effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB1003659/48 HARROGATE COACH TRAVEL LTD, SECTION 3, SOUTHFIELD LANE, TOCKWITH, YORK, YO26 7QP Operating between White Rose Centre and Gledhow Lane, Lidgett Lane Terminus given service number 38 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1003659/45 HARROGATE COACH TRAVEL LTD, SECTION 3, SOUTHFIELD LANE, TOCKWITH, YORK, YO26 7QP Operating between Haxby, West Nooks and Copmanthorpe, Station Road given service number 13 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/7 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Huddersfield and Clayton West/Denby Dale given service number 80 / 81 / 82 / K88 / K90 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/39 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax (Market Street) and Claremount, Belgrave Avenue/Belgrave Close given service number 22 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/40 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax (Market Street) and Halifax (Market Street) given service number 21 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/8 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Huddersfield Bus Station and Wakefield Bus Station given service number 231 / 232 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/14 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Huddersfield and Dewsbury given service number 262 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/64 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between HUDDERSFIELD and GOLCAR given service number 301 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/67 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between BERRY BROW and HUDDERSFIELD ROYAL INFIRMARY given service number 319 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB1078487/68 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between HUDDERSFIELD and MELTHAM given service number 321 / 323 / 324 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/70 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between HUDDERSFIELD and HALIFAX given service number 343 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/72 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Huddersfield Bus Station and Huddersfield Bus Station given service number 366 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB1078487/48 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between HALIFAX BUS STATION and HALIFAX BUS STATION given service number 513 / 514 / 515 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/30 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax and Northowram given service number 534 / 533 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/45 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax and Fountain Head Village given service number 553 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB1078487/47 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax Bus Station and Brighouse Bus Station given service number 563 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/38 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax (Bus station) and Bradford Interchange given service number 572 / 571 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/28 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax and Midgley given service number 574 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/77 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between LEEDS and LEEDS BRADFORD AIRPORT given service number 757 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/31 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax Bus Station and Rochdale Bus Station given service number X58 / 560 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/65 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between HONLEY and HUDDERSFIELD given service number 315 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/26 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax Bus Station and Halifax Bus Station given service number 577 / 579 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB1078487/76 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between BRADFORD and HARROGATE given service number 747 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000815/165 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Huddersfield and Halifax given service number 537 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/41 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax and Rye Lane/Rushton Hill Close given service number 20 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0004246/21 T L C TRAVEL LTD, 7 LINTON STREET, BRADFORD, BD4 7EZ Operating between Bradford and Otley given service number 653 effective from 18 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB1078487/41 YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Operating between Halifax and Rye Lane/Rushton Hill Close given service number 20 effective from 19 February 2016. To amend Timetable.
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BG12
Forum Member
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Post by BG12 on Jan 10, 2017 1:54:53 GMT 1
The 214 I reckon will be a revised route between Morley and ikea. Times prob work with the 220-3 as usual end up having a race between Morley and white rose. This service really is a waste of time and money! Hopefully they'll see sense and sort the route out, so it goes somewhere near where people can actually use it to go to ikea/white rose. The Bruntcliffe - WR section is already covered by the 220-222
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 13, 2017 21:29:46 GMT 1
PB0000815/759 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Huddersfield Bus Station and Huddersfield Bus Station given service number 307 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000582/78 ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Operating between Selby and Leeds given service number 402 / 403 / 402 / 626 effective from 30 January 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000815/785 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Huddersfield and Wakefield given service number 231 / 232 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000815/106 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Huddersfield Bus Station and Huddersfield Bus Station given service number 306 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001873/66 YORKSHIRE COASTLINER LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Leeds City Bus Station and York, The Stonebow given service number ZAP effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route, Stopping Places and Timetable.
PB0001746/103 HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and Starbeck Henry Peacock PH given service number E1 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001746/15 HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Harrogate and Pannal Ash given service number 6 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001746/11 HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Leeds and Wetherby given service number 770 / 771 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/119 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Eccleshill, Park Road and Apperley Bridge Rail Station given service number 948 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/118 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Otley Bus Station and Holt Park given service number 940 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB0001748/6 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Keighley Bus Station and Skipton Bus Station given service number 66 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/55 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Keighley Bus Station and Bradford I/C given service number 662 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/122 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Otley Bus Station and Otley Bus Station given service number 964 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/121 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Otley Bus Station and Otley Bus Station given service number 963 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/117 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Wetherby Bus Station and Otley Bus Station given service number 923 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001748/120 KEIGHLEY & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Otley and Ilkley given service number 962 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB0001746/102 HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and Bilton given service number Bilton effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001746/101 HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and Jennyfield given service number Jennyfield effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0001746/3 HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NY Operating between Leeds City Bus Station and Ripon Bus Station given service number 36 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000815/27 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Leeds Bus Station and Adel given service number 1 / 28 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000815/504 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Tinshill or Ireland Wood and Garforth given service number 19 / 19A effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Route and Timetable.
PB0000815/923 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Infirmary St, Leeds and South Leeds Stadium given service number 61 / 61a effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Stopping Places and Timetable.
South Pennine Community Transport CIC 69 Penistone Road Fenay Bridge Huddersfield HD8 0JS Permit number CB001004 /B975 Route number 938 Operating between Marsden Rail Station and Blackmoorfoot Application to vary timetable received on 22/12/2016 Effective date 20/2/2017
South Pennine Community Transport CIC 69 Penistone Road Fenay Bridge Huddersfield HD8 0JS Permit number CB001006 /B974 Route number 937 Operating between Marsden Rail Station and Honley, Eastgagte Application to vary timetable received on 22/12/2016 Effective date 20/2/2017
South Pennine Community Transport CIC 69 Penistone Road Fenay Bridge Huddersfield HD8 0JS Permit number CB001004 /B879 Route number X50 Operating between Holmfirth Bus Station and Ashton-Under-Lyne Application to vary route and timetable received on 22/12/2016 Effective date 21/2/2017
South Pennine Community Transport CIC 69 Penistone Road Fenay Bridge Huddersfield HD8 0JS Permit number CB001004 /B1152 Route number 309 Operating between Honley Railway Station and Holmfirth Bus Station Application to vary register received ono 22/12/2016 Effective date 21/2/2017
PB1100689/1 INDERJEET CHAHAL, 31 ST. JOHNS ROAD, BIRKBY, HUDDERSFIELD, HD1 5DX Operating between Rawthorpe and Lindley given service number 370 / 371 effective from 22 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
Cancellations of Existing Services South Pennine Community Transport CIC 69 Penistone Road Fenay Bridge Huddersfield HD8 0JS Permit number CB001004 /B871 Route number 322 Operating between Meltham, Morrisons and Holmfirth Bus Station A Application to cancel received 22/12/2016 Effective date 18/2/2017
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 16, 2017 22:07:06 GMT 1
According to NYCC the Cityzap change is a stop at York Racecourse, the 770/771 change being 3 buses a hour between Harrogate and Wetherby and the 747 change primarily a new Sunday timetable with the same frequency. 36 extensions to the Harrogate suburbs are retimed, larger 10 minutes later which will probably be reflected by the timing changes to the main service - one fewer service runs through to Jennyfield balanced by an extra service to Starbeck / the depot.
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69340
Forum Member
Posts: 463
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Post by 69340 on Jan 18, 2017 0:01:02 GMT 1
According to NYCC the Cityzap change is a stop at York Racecourse, the 770/771 change being 3 buses a hour between Harrogate and Wetherby and the 747 change primarily a new Sunday timetable with the same frequency. 36 extensions to the Harrogate suburbs are retimed, larger 10 minutes later which will probably be reflected by the timing changes to the main service - one fewer service runs through to Jennyfield balanced by an extra service to Starbeck / the depot. Also 747 pool bridge corner timing point has been changed but I've been told by a driver that it is being removed due to not being able to stop there
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 18, 2017 19:28:22 GMT 1
The 770/771 change is that during weekday and Saturday daytime all Harrogate-Wetherby-Leeds service will operate as 771s every 30 minutes and their will be hourly 770 between Harrogate and Wetherby.
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Post by rst1987 on Jan 19, 2017 22:06:52 GMT 1
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 19, 2017 22:31:20 GMT 1
Great positive reaction in the comments
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Post by northerner on Jan 19, 2017 22:47:14 GMT 1
Great positive reaction in the comments That's because First's operational performance across West Yorkshire is appalling. Large gaps in service, rude drivers and no response to complaints is the standard 'service' so it's little wonder the comments are on the negative side!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 20, 2017 17:13:49 GMT 1
From reading their Twitter, half the comments are complaining about late buses, the other half about buses being regulated to get back on time. So they can't win.
Then you've got those who expect buses on time with no exceptions.
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 20, 2017 18:16:41 GMT 1
PB0000815/925 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Boar Lane, Leeds and Wellington Steet, Leeds given service number 63 effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Timetable.
PB0000815/923 FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Operating between Infirmary St, Leeds and South Leeds Stadium given service number 61 / 61a effective from 19 February 2017. To amend Stopping Places and Timetable.
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kendall17
Forum Member
Justice for the 96!
Posts: 4,514
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Post by kendall17 on Jan 20, 2017 21:40:11 GMT 1
From reading their Twitter, half the comments are complaining about late buses, the other half about buses being regulated to get back on time. So they can't win. Then you've got those who expect buses on time with no exceptions. Or those that believe that first operate under contract or franchise...
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 20, 2017 21:53:11 GMT 1
Oh yes, "they should have the routes taken off them, get someone else in" is a regular one.
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Post by deerfold on Jan 20, 2017 22:19:59 GMT 1
Oh yes, "they should have the routes taken off them, get someone else in" is a regular one. Perhaps they've seen other better bus companies. Sure, they don't realise exactly how the system works, but that doesn't seem to be reason to sneer at them.
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Jan 22, 2017 8:50:53 GMT 1
Oh yes, "they should have the routes taken off them, get someone else in" is a regular one. Oh, this comment also gets chucked at the other companies (Arriva,Transdev etc), from time to time, who passengers complain about the bus leaving a non-timing point early. The majority of passengers, don't know which services are operated Commercially or under Tender to Metro.
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Post by northerner on Jan 22, 2017 17:24:25 GMT 1
Oh yes, "they should have the routes taken off them, get someone else in" is a regular one. Oh, this comment also gets chucked at the other companies (Arriva,Transdev etc), from time to time, who passengers complain about the bus leaving a non-timing point early. The majority of passengers, don't know which services are operated Commercially or under Tender to Metro. Or in the case of Transdev, leaving timing points early! Bus companies do tend to get away with a lot compared to other industries, and I do think there needs to be a lot more legislation to protect bus users particularly in cases where journeys fail to operate / run early
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SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
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Post by SF07 on Jan 22, 2017 22:29:15 GMT 1
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Post by deerfold on Jan 22, 2017 23:50:14 GMT 1
I wonder if First Manchester take any more notice of reports to them than they used to. I complained to them a couple of years ago about a 2-hourly bus which missed out a section of route on a Sunday morning. I heard nothing for 3 months and then got a three page letter explaining why buses can be delayed when the roads are busy.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 23, 2017 18:40:04 GMT 1
There are two problems with that One being that most timetabled stop time are computer generated based on the before and after timing points, so aren't official, customers don't know this. Also many early running buses on frequent services will often be the previous bus running late.
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Post by northerner on Jan 23, 2017 20:31:49 GMT 1
An excellent idea from First! There shouldn't be any journeys which depart a timing point before the time printed in the timetable and maybe this was a common issue in the Manchester area? I seem to remember during the Public Inquiry a number of journeys were observed to be operating ahead of time. And real time running records should be able to verify genuine incidents
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Post by gooderson1 on Jan 23, 2017 21:35:20 GMT 1
If I recall correctly the Traffc Commissioners work on a criteria that if a journey runs more than a certain number of minutes early or late then it is deemed not to have run( I can't remember to exact number of minutes) when the TC staff are undertaking road side surveys.
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