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Post by SCH117X on Nov 30, 2016 13:55:37 GMT 1
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Post by deerfold on Nov 30, 2016 14:10:54 GMT 1
Looks interesting. The only downsides I can see are the extended period in the afternoon when it wouldn't run through and the continued lack of a decent Sunday evening service (as someone who partakes of an activity in Keighley that finishes at 2030 I feel this keenly (and even to get to Steeton I'd have to wait until 2125). |
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Post by rwilkes on Nov 30, 2016 17:00:57 GMT 1
Make a comment then!
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Post by deerfold on Nov 30, 2016 18:37:43 GMT 1
I shall. Does that mean I'm not allowed to discuss it on here? |
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Post by rwilkes on Nov 30, 2016 20:12:32 GMT 1
Of course you should discuss it here, and I am glad you have told Transdev. I was just concerend that you may have only discussed it here
BTW it looks like Oakworth is getting a drop from 15 to every 20 mins whicich seems a shame
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Post by deerfold on Nov 30, 2016 21:30:27 GMT 1
Of course you should discuss it here, and I am glad you have told Transdev. I was just concerend that you may have only discussed it here BTW it looks like Oakworth is getting a drop from 15 to every 20 mins whicich seems a shame It does - it's not long since the 717 was every 12 mintutes. Was it ever every 10? |
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Post by northerner on Nov 30, 2016 22:15:28 GMT 1
It did used to be every 10 minutes Monday-Friday, think it was around 2005-2006 with it being reduced to every 12 minutes in the October 2006 cutbacks which affected a number of the local routes.
I do like the idea of K7/66 merging as it seems a sensible way of addressing the awful timekeeping of the 66, whilst also better utilising the buses on the K7 which currently have between 10-15 minutes layover every 45 minutes. If the proposal goes ahead wonder if the 3 Versas currently branded for the K7 will be repainted into the Dalesway scheme
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Post by deerfold on Nov 30, 2016 23:12:40 GMT 1
It did used to be every 10 minutes Monday-Friday, think it was around 2005-2006 with it being reduced to every 12 minutes in the October 2006 cutbacks which affected a number of the local routes. I do like the idea of K7/66 merging as it seems a sensible way of addressing the awful timekeeping of the 66, whilst also better utilising the buses on the K7 which currently have between 10-15 minutes layover every 45 minutes. If the proposal goes ahead wonder if the 3 Versas currently branded for the K7 will be repainted into the Dalesway scheme It does stop the 66 and M4 co-ordinating as well during the day and makes the links between the 66 and the X43 at Skipton trickier. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 30, 2016 23:21:37 GMT 1
Seems to be more about increasing the frequency of the 66 within the limitations of the number of versas available.
The Skipton service fills up with a bus full of pensioners at Keighley, so would need a decent amount of layover at Keighley, which would result in a poor through service if the bus will sit for 10 mins at Keighley.
Reducing the layover on the 66 seems to have been the issue here, it used to get 20 mins in the previous timetable. They tried to too too much with too little new buses.
Ideally you'd just interwork them, but you can't do that with route branded buses.
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Post by stevieinselby on Nov 30, 2016 23:48:09 GMT 1
I don't know how long the 717 ran a 15-minute frequency for, or whether that level of service is more than Oakworth needs and a 20-minute frequency would be sufficient, so I won't comment on that aspect of it.
I can't figure out what the advantage to renumbering it as a through service is, nor why the timetable becomes disjointed in the weekday afternoon peak – interworking buses across the K7 and 66, yes, but not merging the routes into one. I suppose having it as a through route might make it easier for passengers from Oakworth travelling to Airedale Hospital, but surely that could be noted on the timetable for the K7 where it does occur. As it is, it's just going to be confusing that there are periods when the buses apparently don't run the full length of the route but it is operated as though it was two separate services again.
And I don't understand why. The daytime service needs 6 buses, but the afternoon peak needs extra running time, so those 6 buses won't be able to cope ... but why not just put on 7 buses and have them all running between Skipton and Oakworth, instead of 2 between Keighley and Oakworth and 5 between Keighley and Skipton? Unless there's some interworking with other routes going on for that period, it's not saving any resources, just making it more complicated.
Similarly with the evening service ... I don't know whether Skipton bus station doesn't provide any facilities for drivers at that time of night, but it seems a shame that the service is disjointed again, this time because there is too much slack in the timetable, so buses in one direction have an extra 20 minutes to kill in Keighley – it would be a lot neater if that extra time was pushed to the end of the route.
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Post by stevieinselby on Nov 30, 2016 23:50:07 GMT 1
I do like the idea of K7/66 merging as it seems a sensible way of addressing the awful timekeeping of the 66 Is there a danger that the poor timekeeping will bleed through to the K7 as well? Or does it generally only occur in the afternoon peak, when they are split again anyway? |
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Post by stevieinselby on Dec 1, 2016 0:00:20 GMT 1
It does stop the 66 and M4 co-ordinating as well during the day and makes the links between the 66 and the X43 at Skipton trickier. I'm not sure that coordinating links between the 66 and X43 is a high priority – for passengers coming from Keighley or Cross Hills, they would be better off getting an M4 for anywhere except Barnoldswick, and even then it isn't a horrendous journey changing at Colne (and from Barlick to Keighley is actually quicker that way even now). I would imagine the number of people making that connection at Skipton is going to be slim, and even if the connection is only optimised once per hour that should more than cater for the passengers going that way, The lack of coordination between Keighley and Airedale Hospital is a bigger issue. With 5 buses an hour running over that route, there will still be 20 minute gaps at some points no matter how the services are coordinated, which is not ideal and potentially gives passengers a worse deal than the current service running about every 15 minutes. The question there is whether that is enough of a disincentive to outweigh the need to provide more capacity between Keighley, Cross Hills and Skipton – and it looks as though the current service is not adequate to meet the demand, so it needs to happen. |
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Post by deerfold on Dec 1, 2016 10:11:43 GMT 1
It does stop the 66 and M4 co-ordinating as well during the day and makes the links between the 66 and the X43 at Skipton trickier. I'm not sure that coordinating links between the 66 and X43 is a high priority. You may not think so, but since the 66 went back to being half-hourly, Transdev Keighley have been promoting it fairly heavily - with advertising boards at Keighley and suggestions in the on-bus adverts on the 66 - with no similar advertising for the M4 that I've seen. |
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Dec 1, 2016 15:54:51 GMT 1
The M4 tends to be promoted as part of the mainline Burnley-Colne links, together with the other M routes, in the simplified network there's no continuation beyond Burnley so the company tend to push the other legs.
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Post by northerner on Dec 1, 2016 22:54:24 GMT 1
I do like the idea of K7/66 merging as it seems a sensible way of addressing the awful timekeeping of the 66 Is there a danger that the poor timekeeping will bleed through to the K7 as well? Or does it generally only occur in the afternoon peak, when they are split again anyway? The majority of the late running occurs during the evening peak, it tends to be anywhere between 15-50 minutes late. Off peak the timetable does appear to work. I've had another look at the proposed timetable and it does look like buses will still do Skipton-Keighley, Keighley-Oakworth during the PM peak but I guess by splitting the journey it increases the chances of swapping a late running bus over rather than have a delay in Cross Hills impacting the Oakworth section |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Dec 1, 2016 23:54:25 GMT 1
I wouldn't have thought so. When the 762 used to interwork with the 717, they were kept separate at peak times. It looks to me an additional bus comes in for the K7 part, probably off a school run.
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Post by northerner on Dec 2, 2016 8:08:01 GMT 1
The 762/717 interwork occurred all day, which is why the 717 went back to being self contained as there were numerous delays throughout the afternoon peak. It does look like an additional bus comes on at 1545, like you say it's more than likely from a school run.
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Post by peteleeds on Dec 14, 2016 22:17:17 GMT 1
Announced on twitter that due to consultation feedback this service merger will not be happening.still looking for ideas of what to do to improve reliability of the dalesway keighleybus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=1847 |
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Post by northerner on Dec 14, 2016 22:41:48 GMT 1
Announced on twitter that due to consultation feedback this service merger will not be happening.still looking for ideas of what to do to improve reliability of the dalesway Disappointing, as it would have improved punctuality on the Skipton section. They are a bit limited as to what they can do as I suspect they can't justify 5 buses on the 66 which is what was used until September. Because of the branded Versas it also limits inter-working on to other routes so one option is to increase layover times by running every 35-40 minutes throughout the peaks although this won't increase capacity |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Dec 14, 2016 23:45:07 GMT 1
Adding an extra bus in the cycle in the afternoon peak, a president running off a school, would solve the issues at that time.
A slightly reduced frequency in the morning peak could solve the issues at that time
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