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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 25, 2016 20:38:50 GMT 1
After a day out in the Dales yesterday, I was reasonably impressed with the buses but very unimpressed with the fares. I don't know if it's because I've been spoilt by living in Arrivaland, but the fares being charged felt extortionate. I'm used to being able to travel 15 miles for a single fare of about £3.50, or £5.50 for a return, and I know that is cheaper than some operators (for a similar journey, EYMS charges £6.90 return) but even that looks like a bargain.
Settle to Skipton, also 15 miles, was an eye-watering £9 return ... whereas the train costs £5.80 return, or a bargain £4.80 off-peak, and is quicker! I can't help feeling that fares like this are set purely to increase the ENCTS rebate, with the expectation that regular fare-paying passengers won't touch them with a barge pole, although they might be lucky and pick up a few who are on holiday and don't know how much they are being ripped off, at least not until it's too late.
Skipton to Barnoldswick is only 9 miles, but both Rotala and Transdev were charging £5.10 single. Again, this seems nothing short of extortionate, although what's really strange is that the Transdev driver offered me the choice of a £5.10 single or a £4 K-day that would cover me for unlimited travel over the same route and further afield. Why have a single ticket that costs 20% more than the relevant zonal ticket? Is this another ENCTS raid? Or is it something to do with the poster I saw in one bus that said Lancs CC subsidised journeys that parallel commercial services have had their fares raised to match the commercial fare ... are Transdev sneakily forcing Rotala to charge higher fares by putting their own single/return fares up but then undercutting them with zonal fares to attract passengers away from the competition?
(The £4 K-day ticket looks remarkably good value! Almost as much of a bargain as today when a group of us went to get on the X84 and pay £2.80 single, when the driver told us he could sell us a group ticket for £5 for 5 people ... that's less than two single fares!)
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Post by twansport on Sept 25, 2016 20:43:53 GMT 1
You are forgetting that these areas are outside of a PTE area in the back end of both patches (North Yorkshire and Lancashire). Demand is not amazing due to the lack of people and diversity of destinations. Apart from Settle, most of these places have the best ever bus service.
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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 25, 2016 21:40:01 GMT 1
You are forgetting that these areas are outside of a PTE area in the back end of both patches (North Yorkshire and Lancashire). Demand is not amazing due to the lack of people and diversity of destinations. Apart from Settle, most of these places have the best ever bus service. I know they are outside PTE areas, but so are the routes from York to Selby and Pocklington, which are the ones I take as 'base' fares. The train between Settle and Skipton is also outside a PTE area, but seems to have much lower fares than you might expect. And yes, I recognise that the services in question are generally very good ... but how affordable are these services for under-65s who use them regularly? Do people actually prefer to pay high fares and get good buses, or would they rather have an older bus but fares to be halved? |
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 25, 2016 22:01:05 GMT 1
The K day is exceptionally good value - I was reading a blog whereby the author thought he had got exceptional value from a Transdev £9 Daytripper ticket yet apart from Leeds-Harrogate on the 36 the rest of his journey would have been covered by the K day. The K day also undercuts Connexions fares on the X52 which makes their fare poster by the day rather misleading.
Still not to long before operators have to publish their fares on their web sites...
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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 25, 2016 22:40:22 GMT 1
Still not to long before operators have to publish their fares on their web sites... To be fair, Connexions are one of the few operators who already do publish pretty comprehensive fare tables. Coastliner have a good summary fare chart, and EYMS have a reasonable list of sample fares, but apart from that it's severely lacking across all other operators. |
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Post by steviewevie on Sept 25, 2016 23:22:33 GMT 1
To the best of my knowledge Lancashire County Council have withdrawn all subsidies to bus services. I. e. there are no longer any tendered services.
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Post by moorside on Sept 26, 2016 1:59:40 GMT 1
No, Lancs CC did say last year that they would remove all subsidies, but in the end they decided to retain some element of subsidy, although many services were withdrawn or reduced due to the reduction in subsidy.
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Post by pontecarlo on Sept 26, 2016 12:50:31 GMT 1
I also travelled to the Dales yesterday. I bought the £10 freedom ticket which got me from Wakefield to Middlesmoor. I've also used it to take me all the way to Hawes and back. I think it's exceptional value for the distance and destinations it takes you to. Didn't realise the bus I was on yesterday travels through to Richmond either
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Post by deerfold on Sept 26, 2016 16:39:02 GMT 1
After a day out in the Dales yesterday, I was reasonably impressed with the buses but very unimpressed with the fares. I don't know if it's because I've been spoilt by living in Arrivaland, but the fares being charged felt extortionate. I'm used to being able to travel 15 miles for a single fare of about £3.50, or £5.50 for a return, and I know that is cheaper than some operators (for a similar journey, EYMS charges £6.90 return) but even that looks like a bargain. Settle to Skipton, also 15 miles, was an eye-watering £9 return ... whereas the train costs £5.80 return, or a bargain £4.80 off-peak, and is quicker! I can't help feeling that fares like this are set purely to increase the ENCTS rebate, with the expectation that regular fare-paying passengers won't touch them with a barge pole, although they might be lucky and pick up a few who are on holiday and don't know how much they are being ripped off, at least not until it's too late. Skipton to Barnoldswick is only 9 miles, but both Rotala and Transdev were charging £5.10 single. Again, this seems nothing short of extortionate, although what's really strange is that the Transdev driver offered me the choice of a £5.10 single or a £4 K-day that would cover me for unlimited travel over the same route and further afield. Why have a single ticket that costs 20% more than the relevant zonal ticket? Is this another ENCTS raid? Or is it something to do with the poster I saw in one bus that said Lancs CC subsidised journeys that parallel commercial services have had their fares raised to match the commercial fare ... are Transdev sneakily forcing Rotala to charge higher fares by putting their own single/return fares up but then undercutting them with zonal fares to attract passengers away from the competition? (The £4 K-day ticket looks remarkably good value! Almost as much of a bargain as today when a group of us went to get on the X84 and pay £2.80 single, when the driver told us he could sell us a group ticket for £5 for 5 people ... that's less than two single fares!) It's a shame you didn't start at Barnoldswick as a £10 DayTripper Dales ticket would have been valid for everything you did (and across the Dalesbus network and most of the Transdev network) - unfortunately you can only buy them on Transdev buses. In common with many places singles are pricy, with day tickets much more reasonable - I suspect it is a by-product of ENTCS that causes this. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 26, 2016 17:39:41 GMT 1
Fares are always more expensive in rural areas, we may complain about WY fares but go to a shire county and you'll find them more expensive, day tickets costing £10 and the like.
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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 26, 2016 17:54:51 GMT 1
It's a shame you didn't start at Barnoldswick as a £10 DayTripper Dales ticket would have been valid for everything you did (and across the Dalesbus network and most of the Transdev network) - unfortunately you can only buy them on Transdev buses. So KLCH accept the DayTripper ticket but can't issue it themselves? That's useful to know - I hadn't realised there were any multi operator tickets available except on Sundays. |
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Post by northerner on Sept 26, 2016 19:13:34 GMT 1
Skipton to Barnoldswick is only 9 miles, but both Rotala and Transdev were charging £5.10 single. Again, this seems nothing short of extortionate, although what's really strange is that the Transdev driver offered me the choice of a £5.10 single or a £4 K-day that would cover me for unlimited travel over the same route and further afield. Why have a single ticket that costs 20% more than the relevant zonal ticket? Is this another ENCTS raid? Or is it something to do with the poster I saw in one bus that said Lancs CC subsidised journeys that parallel commercial services have had their fares raised to match the commercial fare ... are Transdev sneakily forcing Rotala to charge higher fares by putting their own single/return fares up but then undercutting them with zonal fares to attract passengers away from the competition? (The £4 K-day ticket looks remarkably good value! Almost as much of a bargain as today when a group of us went to get on the X84 and pay £2.80 single, when the driver told us he could sell us a group ticket for £5 for 5 people ... that's less than two single fares!) I would expect drivers to automatically sell the cheaper ticket in cases like that. It's a similar situation with Keighley-Colne too. The KDay is exceptionally good value, especially considering the network has grown recently and is about to expand again, which may be why some single fares appear expensive |
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Post by deerfold on Sept 26, 2016 22:45:39 GMT 1
It's a shame you didn't start at Barnoldswick as a £10 DayTripper Dales ticket would have been valid for everything you did (and across the Dalesbus network and most of the Transdev network) - unfortunately you can only buy them on Transdev buses. So KLCH accept the DayTripper ticket but can't issue it themselves? That's useful to know - I hadn't realised there were any multi operator tickets available except on Sundays. Doh! My mistake - I thought your trip was Sunday. |
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