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Post by timelesstable on Sept 11, 2016 21:44:33 GMT 1
They say politics and transport are deeply entwined and nowhere more so than in London. Certainly today there was a stark illustration of that, as it has emerged the New Routemaster project (aka the New Bus for London) is in its death throes. This was the nostalgia-laden flagship project and manifesto pledge of the previous Mayor Boris Johnson. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37323431We will still have the remaining new buses on the streets of London for a while yet, and 195 are yet to be delivered by next summer but I'm told no further orders will be placed. And there's not exactly a cacophony of opposition at Transport for London (TfL) against that as the future is now electric buses. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the new mayor Sadiq Khan has shown little time for the New Routemaster. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 17, 2016 22:24:35 GMT 1
Beginning of the end? I know a few tenders are keeping LTs, such as routes 11, 137 & 148. Maybe once vehicles become around 7 years old, they will be replaced by conventional buses as the routes are retendered.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 17, 2016 23:01:55 GMT 1
A bit of a tabloid headline from the BBC, I would have expected better.
A story like that could have been written about the original routemaster in the 1960s!
Even if Boris was still in charge I don't think it was ever the intention to purchase them for ever and end up with 100% LT class operation.
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Post by timelesstable on Sept 18, 2016 9:19:38 GMT 1
A story like that could have been written about the original routemaster in the 1960s! Even if Boris was still in charge I don't think it was ever the intention to purchase them for ever and end up with 100% LT class operation. What about the London Artics? |
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Post by deerfold on Sept 18, 2016 12:43:09 GMT 1
A bit of a tabloid headline from the BBC, I would have expected better. A story like that could have been written about the original routemaster in the 1960s! Even if Boris was still in charge I don't think it was ever the intention to purchase them for ever and end up with 100% LT class operation. No, but these are buses with only one real difference from other modern buses - the open platform. With no second staff none will operate with the open platform. They've cost more to buy and more to run. Routemasters ran in regular service for over 30 years with LT and other operators. I'll be very surprised if there's more than a handful of heritage LTs in 7 years time. |
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Post by timelesstable on Sept 18, 2016 13:50:45 GMT 1
A bit of a tabloid headline from the BBC, I would have expected better. A story like that could have been written about the original routemaster in the 1960s! Even if Boris was still in charge I don't think it was ever the intention to purchase them for ever and end up with 100% LT class operation. No, but these are buses with only one real difference from other modern buses - the open platform. With no second staff none will operate with the open platform. They've cost more to buy and more to run. Routemasters ran in regular service for over 30 years with LT and other operators. I'll be very surprised if there's more than a handful of heritage LTs in 7 years time. The Borismaster might be more expensive to buy but they must be cheaper to run than the atrics |
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Post by deerfold on Sept 18, 2016 14:34:20 GMT 1
No, but these are buses with only one real difference from other modern buses - the open platform. With no second staff none will operate with the open platform. They've cost more to buy and more to run. Routemasters ran in regular service for over 30 years with LT and other operators. I'll be very surprised if there's more than a handful of heritage LTs in 7 years time. The Borismaster might be more expensive to buy but they must be cheaper to run than the atrics I was comparing them with other bus types that still run in London. Even so, on a per passenger basis I'm not sure. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 18, 2016 19:40:51 GMT 1
It was an election pledge by Boris to withdraw the arctics. There has been no such pledge by Khan so although no more will be built than the 1000 or so that have been, I expect them to continue in service until they are 14 after two contract terms at least,
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Sept 18, 2016 22:29:31 GMT 1
It was an election pledge by Boris to withdraw the arctics. There has been no such pledge by Khan so although no more will be built than the 1000 or so that have been, I expect them to continue in service until they are 14 after two contract terms at least, Logic would say that of they were to work 2 full contract terms (and both to be awarded a 2 year extension) then they would get to 14 year old - however TfL want buses replacing by their 13th birthday ideally, so where this puts vehicles on the 2nd contract term I don't know. |
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Post by upasalmon70 on Nov 25, 2016 11:47:10 GMT 1
Transport for London will want a full life span given the cost so they will be around until the late 2020s. I hope I will be too!
With the conductor substitutes being made redundant the raison d'etre of the LT class with its rear staircase and doors goes with it.
Perhaps the Sadiqmaster will just have two doors and staircases with a battery engine.
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Post by upasalmon70 on Nov 25, 2016 15:07:05 GMT 1
Jumping on and off the LT when in motion is dangerous and shouldn't be encouraged
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Post by deerfold on Nov 25, 2016 22:54:12 GMT 1
Jumping on and off the LT when in motion is dangerous and shouldn't be encouraged It isn't encouraged. Nor is it possible any more. All the buses now run with the back door closed when the bus is in motion. |
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Post by upasalmon70 on Nov 26, 2016 19:29:25 GMT 1
It would be a huge waste to sell them after seven years. There is no reason why the rear doors can't be sealed as there are two doors that can be used.
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Post by deerfold on Nov 27, 2016 8:55:45 GMT 1
It would be a huge waste to sell them after seven years. There is no reason why the rear doors can't be sealed as there are two doors that can be used. It would be inconvenient for anyone coming down the rear staircase to then have to get to the middle of the bus to get off. What would sealing the back door achieve? |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Dec 11, 2016 0:04:37 GMT 1
The remaining LTs are due to convert route 21, 48, 76, 254, EL1, EL2 and EL3 (currently 387).
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Post by upasalmon70 on Dec 17, 2016 10:09:06 GMT 1
Deerfold - The rear doors are as good as sealed as the conductor substitutes have been made redundant. People upstairs will just have to attempt to alight earlier!There is no reason why these buses can't give a full service life once some bugs have been ironed out, upstairs ventilation enabled and the battery/motor problem. London will be stuck with 1,000of them!
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Post by deerfold on Dec 17, 2016 12:19:55 GMT 1
Deerfold - The rear doors are as good as sealed as the conductor substitutes have been made redundant. People upstairs will just have to attempt to alight earlier!There is no reason why these buses can't give a full service life once some bugs have been ironed out, upstairs ventilation enabled and the battery/motor problem. London will be stuck with 1,000of them! I'm not quite sure what you mean. The rear doors still open at bus stops. They're no cheaper than other models to operate, so whilst I expect them to be around for a while yet, I don't think anyone at TfL will be pushing to keep them around longer than other models (though it may be that all models will be kept for longer if finances continue the way they are going). |
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Post by upasalmon70 on Dec 18, 2016 18:11:45 GMT 1
Who supervises the rear doors? The driver couldn't, they are out of his sight line.I thought the second crew had to be at the back for safety reasons.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Dec 18, 2016 23:01:28 GMT 1
Who supervises the rear doors? The driver couldn't, they are out of his sight line.I thought the second crew had to be at the back for safety reasons. That was when the rear doors were open at all times. Now they open at stops only they are surpervised in the same way as the middle doors are, using the mirrors/cameras etc. |
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Post by upasalmon70 on Dec 19, 2016 6:26:31 GMT 1
If that's the case how does the driver prevent fare dodgers from boarding while the front and centre entrances are busy? It just like the bendy bus problem. I am aware that all London buses are cashless. A camera isn't going to stop people from boarding without pre paid tickets or such.I think the rear door will become an extra emergency exit.
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Post by deerfold on Dec 19, 2016 9:22:55 GMT 1
The drivers on the LTs don't do any checks on people boarding at the centre and rear doors. But then neither did the "conductors" they employed on these buses. Yes, they are just as open to fare abuse as the bendy buses - fare dodging will only be detected by RPIs.
Why would the rear door stop opening? Its use is no different to the centre door - and if the driver isn't checking tickets there there's no additional risk from having the rear door open too.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Dec 19, 2016 9:29:45 GMT 1
The drivers on the LTs don't do any checks on people boarding at the centre and rear doors. But then neither did the "conductors" they employed on these buses. Yes, they are just as open to fare abuse as the bendy buses - fare dodging will only be detected by RPIs. Why would the rear door stop opening? Its use is no different to the centre door - and if the driver isn't checking tickets there there's no additional risk from having the rear door open too. Most drivers don't bother to check the passengers boarding at the front door, why would the middle or rear doors be different? Last time I was in London after the first driver, where I was the only person on board for the whole journey, barely any of the other drivers for the day gave my ticket (a TravelCard on a train ticket) a glance. If you have anything that looks remotely like a valid ticket (any old train ticket would do I suspect) most drivers in London wouldn't notice what you were boarding with, and few really seem to care. |
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Dec 19, 2016 22:27:55 GMT 1
Who supervises the rear doors? The driver couldn't, they are out of his sight line.I thought the second crew had to be at the back for safety reasons. Not simply for safety reasons. When in 'crew mode' the Customer Service Agent has to press a button to release the halt brake at stops. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Dec 24, 2016 22:28:27 GMT 1
The drivers on the LTs don't do any checks on people boarding at the centre and rear doors. But then neither did the "conductors" they employed on these buses. Yes, they are just as open to fare abuse as the bendy buses - fare dodging will only be detected by RPIs. Why would the rear door stop opening? Its use is no different to the centre door - and if the driver isn't checking tickets there there's no additional risk from having the rear door open too. Most drivers don't bother to check the passengers boarding at the front door, why would the middle or rear doors be different? Last time I was in London after the first driver, where I was the only person on board for the whole journey, barely any of the other drivers for the day gave my ticket (a TravelCard on a train ticket) a glance. If you have anything that looks remotely like a valid ticket (any old train ticket would do I suspect) most drivers in London wouldn't notice what you were boarding with, and few really seem to care. Indeed, when I have a daytrip in London using a Rail-style Travelcard, some drivers even make a point of looking away or denying all knowledge that I am offering to show a ticket. Conversely, there were 2 examples in 2013/14 when I had pink Underground-style Travelcards with faint print, and the driver specifically asked to see my Travelcard. I guess at first glance it could have looked like an Underground single. |
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Post by X212HHE on Jan 2, 2017 15:16:23 GMT 1
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