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Post by peteleeds on Sept 10, 2016 12:18:30 GMT 1
With transdev winning the wharfedale local services tender which buses do we think they will use on them and will they use a further sub brand like harrogate coach travel did ?
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 10, 2016 14:40:30 GMT 1
Looking at the WYIS list take your pick of Darts 704, 710, 711, 719 (and possibly 703).
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Post by peteleeds on Sept 20, 2016 18:25:46 GMT 1
Seems wharfedale links is the chosen name
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 29, 2016 18:39:16 GMT 1
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 31, 2016 23:34:21 GMT 1
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 31, 2016 23:44:08 GMT 1
Has anyone tracked down any printed publicity, are Transdev doing a timetable or are they sticking with a standard Metro one?
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Post by deerfold on Oct 31, 2016 23:53:22 GMT 1
The Metro timetable arrived at Keighley bus station today and will be on buses from tomorrow.
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Post by rwilkes on Nov 1, 2016 0:03:17 GMT 1
Today the bus stop timetables were not updated causing a lot of confusion for passenger
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 1, 2016 0:22:10 GMT 1
It probably takes them a while to update all the stops that needs changing, it's probably one man in a van for the whole county these days.
Of course if they did them early, you'd have confusion before the change instead.
Off topic but the availability of paper timetable leaflets in Leeds CBS and Bradford Interchange has been abysmal for months now, with about half out of stock at anyone time. Meanwhile Halifax and Huddersfield is always fully stocked, seems quite odd.
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Post by 112jct41 on Nov 1, 2016 7:11:44 GMT 1
It probably takes them a while to update all the stops that needs changing, it's probably one man in a van for the whole county these days. Of course if they did them early, you'd have confusion before the change instead. Off topic but the availability of paper timetable leaflets in Leeds CBS and Bradford Interchange has been abysmal for months now, with about half out of stock at anyone time. Meanwhile Halifax and Huddersfield is always fully stocked, seems quite odd. its the same in Wakefield but they've said Metro are having a trial withdrawl of paper timetables for a spell to phase them out in favour for digital. |
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Nov 1, 2016 7:33:10 GMT 1
As suspected, Metro are doing an SYPTE, watch this space, no paper timetables, poor updated to printed displays, people FORCED onto using digital! How long before people and print are replaced by digital? How long before the travel offices close like SYPTE did? Sorry but this is what Metro are aiming to do!
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Post by deerfold on Nov 1, 2016 10:27:34 GMT 1
It probably takes them a while to update all the stops that needs changing, it's probably one man in a van for the whole county these days. Of course if they did them early, you'd have confusion before the change instead. Off topic but the availability of paper timetable leaflets in Leeds CBS and Bradford Interchange has been abysmal for months now, with about half out of stock at anyone time. Meanwhile Halifax and Huddersfield is always fully stocked, seems quite odd. When the changes in September happened my stop was not changed immediately. It was changed 5 days after the change (after I mentioned it on the day of the change). It took 5 changes and 34 days before the stop had the correct times on. Permutations they put up included having both the old and new times, including an old withdrawn route and putting up the times for the other side of the road - despite assuring me each time that they were double checking the times before putting them up. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 5, 2016 19:09:33 GMT 1
From what I can gather from having a look today and hearing the old ladies chuntering, the 923/966/967 looks to be running ok as the timetable and resources deployed hasn't changed.
The 962/963/964 seems to be a bit of a shambles though with late running, missed journeys, people saying they are going to complain. At one point the 963 & 964 were both in Otley Bus Station at the same time despite supposedly being run by the same bus.
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Post by Burnside on Nov 5, 2016 22:22:46 GMT 1
From what i can gather, where Connexions had a bus run a circuit as follows: 962 Otley - Ilkley > 960 Ilkley - Ben Rhydding - Ilkley > 961 Ilkley - Hebers Ghyll - Ilkley > 962 Ilkley - Otley > 964 Otley - Cambridge - Otley > 962 Otley - Ilkley etc, Transdev are now running as follows: 962 Otley - Ilkley - Hebers Ghyll - Ben Rhydding - Ilkley - Otley > 964 Otley - Cambridge - Otley > 963 Otley - Hospital - Otley then back on to the 962.
So not only is there less 'recovery' time, the buses are getting delayed coming back into Otley from the Hospital at times, which is then having a knock on effect on the 962 circle.
I was out using my M-Card Dayrover today. I arrived in Ilkley just after 11 on the 62 from Keighley and the 962 was just leaving for Otley, 16 minutes late. The 11:18 from Ilkley round Hebers Ghyll finally arrived 20 minutes late at 11:38 and due to a combination of using The Grove (which is a stupid road to send a bus along), badly parked posh cars, a Bentley nearly running us off the road rather than stop to let the bus pass and an extremely tight squeeze past some roadworks on Crossbeck Road, we were 30 minutes late by the time we got back to the bus station. At this point the driver called base who told him to run empty to Otley to get back on schedule. Those of us onboard already were carried to our destination (3 to Otley and 1 to near Menston).
From what i can gather, having heard grumblings every day this week about how bad the service has been, it seems to me that Transdev have put the plan in to action to run the services in this way noted above, to get as much done with as few buses as possible, but from my experience today and from what i've been hearing all week, it seems that Transdev have compiled the diagram to be intensive to produce a cheaper bid and get the tender. Whether this is purely that they wanted the work or simply determination to get one over on Connexions, i don't know. All i can say that if today is typical of how the 962, 963 and 964 have been running all week (and it certainly sounds like it) is that Transdev need to find a solution sharpish (whether it be adding an extra bus to the system to give more time at termini to recover from delays or something), cos people are already unhappy at the new timetable being so poor (large swathes of Ilkley now have no bus to the station when commuting). If the reliability is crap too, people are going to be driven off the bus and into their cars which is the last thing any bus company should want, even on tendered routes with less financial risk.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 5, 2016 22:56:12 GMT 1
I was hoping to catch the 1246 962 from Ilkley to Otley, when it turned up around 1255 it turns out it was so late it was actually doing the Hebers Ghyll loop first so was actually about 40 mins late.
Talking about Hebers Ghyll, they get a poor deal as instead of having a quick 8 min trip to the bus station, the 962 now takes 18 mins as it combines the 960 and 961 all in one trip.
And on a related note, rather than the new X84 buses standing out as new, they seem to be just adding to the confusion of all the buses being in different colours than previously.
It reminds me slightly of when Tyrer Bus took over the Hebden Bridge services.
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Post by Burnside on Nov 5, 2016 23:05:07 GMT 1
The situation as it stands is ok for Tansdev as they've got more work, good for Metro cos they're satisfied they've got value for money from the tender, but the passengers are losing out big time from slashed timetables, to woeful service reliability.
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Post by northerner on Nov 5, 2016 23:58:52 GMT 1
From what i can gather, having heard grumblings every day this week about how bad the service has been, it seems to me that Transdev have put the plan in to action to run the services in this way noted above, to get as much done with as few buses as possible, but from my experience today and from what i've been hearing all week, it seems that Transdev have compiled the diagram to be intensive to produce a cheaper bid and get the tender. Whether this is purely that they wanted the work or simply determination to get one over on Connexions, i don't know. All i can say that if today is typical of how the 962, 963 and 964 have been running all week (and it certainly sounds like it) is that Transdev need to find a solution sharpish (whether it be adding an extra bus to the system to give more time at termini to recover from delays or something), cos people are already unhappy at the new timetable being so poor (large swathes of Ilkley now have no bus to the station when commuting). If the reliability is crap too, people are going to be driven off the bus and into their cars which is the last thing any bus company should want, even on tendered routes with less financial risk. If Transdev have bid for the 962/963/964 based on 3 buses being required, adding additional resources would probably lead to them running at a loss if the rumours are true regarding them running the routes with little profit margin. Going by Transdev's twitter feed this week they have been experiencing a few issues not helped by a couple of breakdowns adding to the problems. One of their replies did state they are liaising with Metro although if this is to be a daily problem you would hope they would ensure all the buses are tracking so you can try to plan ahead |
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Nov 6, 2016 0:00:25 GMT 1
From what i can gather, where Connexions had a bus run a circuit as follows: 962 Otley - Ilkley > 960 Ilkley - Ben Rhydding - Ilkley > 961 Ilkley - Hebers Ghyll - Ilkley > 962 Ilkley - Otley > 964 Otley - Cambridge - Otley > 962 Otley - Ilkley etc, Transdev are now running as follows: 962 Otley - Ilkley - Hebers Ghyll - Ben Rhydding - Ilkley - Otley > 964 Otley - Cambridge - Otley > 963 Otley - Hospital - Otley then back on to the 962. So not only is there less 'recovery' time, the buses are getting delayed coming back into Otley from the Hospital at times, which is then having a knock on effect on the 962 circle. I was out using my M-Card Dayrover today. I arrived in Ilkley just after 11 on the 62 from Keighley and the 962 was just leaving for Otley, 16 minutes late. The 11:18 from Ilkley round Hebers Ghyll finally arrived 20 minutes late at 11:38 and due to a combination of using The Grove (which is a stupid road to send a bus along), badly parked posh cars, a Bentley nearly running us off the road rather than stop to let the bus pass and an extremely tight squeeze past some roadworks on Crossbeck Road, we were 30 minutes late by the time we got back to the bus station. At this point the driver called base who told him to run empty to Otley to get back on schedule. Those of us onboard already were carried to our destination (3 to Otley and 1 to near Menston). From what i can gather, having heard grumblings every day this week about how bad the service has been, it seems to me that Transdev have put the plan in to action to run the services in this way noted above, to get as much done with as few buses as possible, but from my experience today and from what i've been hearing all week, it seems that Transdev have compiled the diagram to be intensive to produce a cheaper bid and get the tender. Whether this is purely that they wanted the work or simply determination to get one over on Connexions, i don't know. All i can say that if today is typical of how the 962, 963 and 964 have been running all week (and it certainly sounds like it) is that Transdev need to find a solution sharpish (whether it be adding an extra bus to the system to give more time at termini to recover from delays or something), cos people are already unhappy at the new timetable being so poor (large swathes of Ilkley now have no bus to the station when commuting). If the reliability is crap too, people are going to be driven off the bus and into their cars which is the last thing any bus company should want, even on tendered routes with less financial risk. The timetables are set by Metro I believe, and obviously they think that the changes to the 960/961/962 in Ilkley is going to manage to squeeze a few minutes, so that the 963 can be fitted in at Otley. Obviously it's not working! Under ConneXions there was about 20 minutes recovery time within each 2 hour loop. I think it's around 5 minutes under the new timetables. |
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Nov 6, 2016 9:59:16 GMT 1
The routes, hours of operation and frequencies will have been set out by Metro but I believe it's up to operators themselves as to how they resource the requirements of the tender. Clearly Transdev have chosen to combine the Ilkley routes in their bid, and have resourced the bid using the lowest number of vehicles blindly not taking into account traffic issues because they were that determined to win the bid. Metro don't forget are currently in cost cutting mode and Transdev know this. If things don't work and the services loose passengers to below the funding threshold, will Metro just simply terminate the contract without replacement? It's probably not going to bother Alex that much, after all it's only a handful of country bumpkin services in a couple of little towns up North! If Transdev were bothered about passengers they wouldn't try such a cheap unrealistic bid.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 6, 2016 10:20:28 GMT 1
The number of buses deployed overall hasn't changed, it's squeezing in the 963 which has caused the issue. Then Connexions have taken on the 940 commercially and has ended up with an increased frequency due to not doing the bit that is now the 963.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Nov 6, 2016 10:40:39 GMT 1
Transdev knew the frequency of each service when they submitted the bid, it's either they didn't do their homework first regarding how long each route would take and stupidly took a guess, or they thought it'd be tight but we've got to take a chance and get one over on Connexions. Either way, for such an experienced company to put in such a flawed bid it's clearly not on! Might have to message the local MP for Otley on this issue and see what he has to say, by the way he's very pro public transport.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 6, 2016 11:50:03 GMT 1
A way to fix it. Now the 653 runs every hour on a commercial basis, Menston village has got more buses than ever before, so if they dropped the short 967 journeys, they could inter work the 963 with the 967. They'd have to split the 967 at Otley though at least in one direction.
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Post by SCH117X on Nov 6, 2016 11:56:51 GMT 1
From what I can gather from having a look today and hearing the old ladies chuntering, the 923/966/967 looks to be running ok as the timetable and resources deployed hasn't changed. The 962/963/964 seems to be a bit of a shambles though with late running, missed journeys, people saying they are going to complain. At one point the 963 & 964 were both in Otley Bus Station at the same time despite supposedly being run by the same bus. So Trandev are using 4 vehicles then not 3. Noted from the latest WYIS list that M ticket Black Darts 703 and 704 which previously had been shown as being withdrawn are both at Keighley and 704 is pictured on Flickr in Otley so they appear to have increased the pool of available vehicles. An alternative solution would possibly be a rerouting of the 962 in Ilkley as that seems to the main cause of delays. |
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Nov 6, 2016 13:08:30 GMT 1
Transdev knew the frequency of each service when they submitted the bid, it's either they didn't do their homework first regarding how long each route would take and stupidly took a guess, or they thought it'd be tight but we've got to take a chance and get one over on Connexions. Either way, for such an experienced company to put in such a flawed bid it's clearly not on! Might have to message the local MP for Otley on this issue and see what he has to say, by the way he's very pro public transport. If ConneXions had retained the services you'd either have the same interworking as Transdev are having, or else extra long layovers, due to the increased frequency on the 940. Perhaps if Transdev had been awarded the 940 (if they had bid for it) then they could have worked that into the cycle with the Ilkleys and had a better overall cycle, with slightly longer layovers. |
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Post by SCH117X on Nov 6, 2016 19:45:15 GMT 1
Transdev did bid for the 940 as they are working peak hour services Mon-Fri although Metro are still not showing the 0810 from Holt Park; are the Connexions ones tendered or as suggested above in this thread commercial?
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