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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Aug 15, 2016 20:00:18 GMT 1
You'd think that with all the services in Leeds, and the changes to Leeds services that happen in each period, all traditional Leeds numbers from 1 to 99 would be in use quite often, but with some numbers that's not the case, and some numbers seem only to be used as part of a partnership.
Numbers 1 to 9 haven't seen many periods of no use except the 7 for a while between the Rothwell service withdrawal and 7 series starting up. Number 10 didn't get used for ages until the start of the Temple Newsam service.
11 to 16 (not Inc 15) are used either all the time off and on but often. The 15 saw a big gap of no use until the new 15 started.
17 saw a lot of regular use, being the stable number used for many years on a number of West Leeds routes (and up to Seacroft for a good while) however strangely hasn't seen any use since the days of Optional bus back in the late 90s!
18 and 19 are 2 numbers that have seen off and on use over the years with both seeing use on almost the same route at one point. Will the number 18 see a return or will it end up like 17.
Now, numbers 20 to 27 are a bit like the 17 but not as bad in some cases. Haven't seen the 20, 22, 26 and 27 used since the early naughties but the rest, 21, 23, 24 and especially 25 haven't seen use for a very long time, probably since the late 80s or early 90s!
The 30 I haven't seen used since the days of the Cross Gates Oakwood Moortown route but numbers 31 to 39 have seen continuous or fairly often off and on use with only the 39 seeing a sizeable gap.
40 and 42 seem to be used year after year for god knows how long. 41 on the other hand has seen a few big gaps over the years and hasn't seen use since the 49 took over. 43 is another one not seeing any use since the late 90s. Numbers 44 to 46 saw regular use up until 10 or so years ago and then nothing.
47 is a bit of a partner route. No use for years and then it partners the 37 for a while, then the 26, then no use for a while until it partnered the 48. The only stand alone route it's had is the Leeds to Temple Newsam service.
I could go on but I'll leave that to you.
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Post by jdodger08 on Aug 15, 2016 23:27:15 GMT 1
There is plenty from arrival that have disappeared with time heading into Leeds from Castleford. 164, 165, 169....
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Aug 16, 2016 1:14:10 GMT 1
I think the way routes are set up has changed through the years.
Originally there may have been routes running to the city boundaries, then a complicated network using many different numbers, then a simplified network using fewer numbers.
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Post by steviewevie on Aug 16, 2016 8:27:49 GMT 1
I get your point BT but in corporation days when services terminated at the city boundary (and stopping/co-ordination agreements existed) there were probably more services overall but each company used there own service numbers. This continued in PTE days. A number of services have disappeared since including 7 in Leeds which used to terminate in Hunslet (now left to Arriva beyond Church Street) and, was it the 17? in Bradford to Tong Cemetery (again now left to Arriva).
Also some services have been combined. The ex West Yorkshire services in Leeds spring to mind. LCT/PTE services 25 used to terminate in Kirkstall and the 33 in Horsforth.
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Post by kaytown on Aug 16, 2016 8:59:42 GMT 1
There is plenty from arrival that have disappeared with time heading into Leeds from Castleford. 164, 165, 169.... Going back to the 1960's when I was at junior school, I remember the West Riding 152 (Doncaster - Leeds, via Askern, Pontefract -Castleford - and Methley). And 153 Goole - Leeds via Knottingley to Pontefract and then same route to Leeds as the 152, some journeys also went via Mickletown. |
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Post by pub146g on Aug 16, 2016 10:39:41 GMT 1
There is currently a service 30, Horsforth-Pudsey which is run by Fourways (using Enviro200's).
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Post by 576 Gemini 2 on Aug 16, 2016 15:12:07 GMT 1
The 223-226 routes between Leeds and Halifax have over the years become the 254/255
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 17:02:06 GMT 1
Think it is the same for most of West Yorkshire,In fact compared to areas such as Huddersfield & Halifax,Leeds numbers have not changed that much,i mean off the top of my head Halifax numbers 509,524,528,531/2/3,538,550,556/7/9,562,573/5 & Huddersfield numbers 305,309,311,313,317,320,325,332,338,340,344,348,350/1/2,353,357,359,361,368,380,381,382 have all been lost over the years (some more recent than others) via various changes (some renumbered,some just replaced by other services or in a couple of cases the company just folding)
Another number for Leeds that hasn't been used for a while is the 73,what basically run via 72 route as far as Stanningley before turning up to Pudsey
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Aug 16, 2016 17:59:09 GMT 1
There is currently a service 30, Horsforth-Pudsey which is run by Fourways (using Enviro200's). Ah yes, forgot about that one. I'll chip in just a little bit more, the 65 had been lost for some time (must be going on nearly 20 years) until the new 65 came along in July and haven't seen the number 77 used for a hell of a long time! Was it last used as part of the Middleton to Moor Grange group of services, as in 74 to 76, or are we talking as far back as it's use by Metro for the Gipton to Horsforth service in the early 80s? Talking about the 80s, when was the last time numbers 83 and 84 were used, especially 84 which must be missing since the early 80s. You'd have thought these numbers would have seen use by now! |
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Post by leeds rider on Aug 16, 2016 19:22:40 GMT 1
Yep, 77 was used as part of the Middleton to Moor Grange group - used to catch it regularly before it morphed into 18 and then 19. It was odd in that going from town towards Moor Grange you caught a 74 or 77, but in the other direction it was 75 or 76.
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Steve Macz403
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Aug 16, 2016 19:55:05 GMT 1
Think about the older 7xx numbers most of which were kept on after the West Yorkshire road car era.
732 -736 Leeds - Otley/ Ilkley taken by the 33 probably one of the last routes to turn into the overground 33/33A today around 2003
655/755 Leeds - Bradford now taken by the 97. But running Leeds - Guiseley only, was a dormant number but Matched in with existing 95/96
96 now gone, recently replaced by 6.
Which used to be East end park to Rodley, then Leeds - Rodley. Disappeared in the 2000s. Only for the number to be revived in 2011.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Aug 16, 2016 20:03:59 GMT 1
Most First routes were changed when the 2000 overground system came in
I've got some old maps and the overground structure came in, it was designed to simplify routes and give corridors a high frequency and common sections of routes.
Most routes out of West Yorkshire towns had 2 - 5 variants either with a large group of service numbers or had many A/B/C variants.
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Post by whereami on Aug 17, 2016 6:05:21 GMT 1
Think it is the same for most of West Yorkshire,In fact compared to areas such as Huddersfield & Halifax,Leeds numbers have not changed that much,i mean off the top of my head Halifax numbers 509,524,528,531/2/3,538,550,556/7/9,562,573/5 & Huddersfield numbers 305,309,311,313,317,320,325,332,338,340,344,348,350/1/2,353,357,359,361,368,380,381,382 have all been lost over the years (some more recent than others) via various changes (some renumbered,some just replaced by other services or in a couple of cases the company just folding) Another number for Leeds that hasn't been used for a while is the 73,what basically run via 72 route as far as Stanningley before turning up to Pudsey 317 still runs, 5 hours a day Monday-Saturday, Lindley-Almondbury via Milnsbridge, Lockwood and Newsome. |
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Post by whereami on Aug 17, 2016 6:21:25 GMT 1
The 223-226 routes between Leeds and Halifax have over the years become the 254/255 Yes, 255 is actually made up of 223/4/5/6/7. You forgot to mention the 227 which ran Evenings and Sunday via 226 route from Leeds to Halifax, but, went via Bailiff Bridge, instead of Norwood Green. 223-5 to Birkenshaw Roundabout, then 225 to Oxford Road/West Lane area of Gomersal, from there to Cleckheaton it's 225/6, to bus station, then effectively it's the 223 again to Scholes, (officially 226/7 went round Turnstead Estate), before following the 226/7 route to Wyke, and then the 227 route down to Bailiff Bridge, and then doing 223/4/7 routes to Halifax. Unless, of course, you're including the old 226 route of 1977/78 era that came from Leeds to Birstall like current 220/2, then towards Hecky like current 209, then current 221 into Hecky, then like current & old 268/A to Cleck, before running up to Pack Horse like current 225/54 (old 224/5), then dropping down to Bailiff Bridge, like the old 223/4's did |
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Post by steviewevie on Aug 17, 2016 8:24:59 GMT 1
Going back some time Between Leeds and Wakefield West Riding's 92 became 91,92,93 and 94 when the old tram routes from Leeds to Rothwell were abolished, were they 18 and 19? These became 491, 492, 492 and 494 in PTE days. These later morphed into 440, 441, 442, 443, 444, 445, 446, 447 and 448 when they were combined with the 465 Barnsley - Leeds service (joint West Riding/Yorkshire Traction). This service had previously been the 65 (Sheffield to Leeds)and before that services 90 (West Riding) and 99 (Yorkshire Traction following their takeover of T. Burrows & Sons). So I think we can conclude that numbers come and go quite often. Incidentally there was a thread on this in 2013.
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Post by jdodger08 on Aug 19, 2016 16:12:43 GMT 1
There is plenty from arrival that have disappeared with time heading into Leeds from Castleford. 164, 165, 169.... Going back to the 1960's when I was at junior school, I remember the West Riding 152 (Doncaster - Leeds, via Askern, Pontefract -Castleford - and Methley). And 153 Goole - Leeds via Knottingley to Pontefract and then same route to Leeds as the 152, some journeys also went via Mickletown. Didn't they also run the 410 Leeds to Doncaster? Now it is curtailed to Pontefract. |
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Post by timelesstable on Aug 19, 2016 17:05:24 GMT 1
Going back to the 1960's when I was at junior school, I remember the West Riding 152 (Doncaster - Leeds, via Askern, Pontefract -Castleford - and Methley). And 153 Goole - Leeds via Knottingley to Pontefract and then same route to Leeds as the 152, some journeys also went via Mickletown. Didn't they also run the 410 Leeds to Doncaster? Now it is curtailed to Pontefract. The 410 was the old South Yorkshire Motors (Pontefract)which only became an Arriva route in the mid 1990's following the purchase of SYM |
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Post by A1YBG on Aug 19, 2016 20:59:12 GMT 1
The 223-226 routes between Leeds and Halifax have over the years become the 254/255 Yes, 255 is actually made up of 223/4/5/6/7. You forgot to mention the 227 which ran Evenings and Sunday via 226 route from Leeds to Halifax, but, went via Bailiff Bridge, instead of Norwood Green. 223-5 to Birkenshaw Roundabout, then 225 to Oxford Road/West Lane area of Gomersal, from there to Cleckheaton it's 225/6, to bus station, then effectively it's the 223 again to Scholes, (officially 226/7 went round Turnstead Estate), before following the 226/7 route to Wyke, and then the 227 route down to Bailiff Bridge, and then doing 223/4/7 routes to Halifax. Unless, of course, you're including the old 226 route of 1977/78 era that came from Leeds to Birstall like current 220/2, then towards Hecky like current 209, then current 221 into Hecky, then like current & old 268/A to Cleck, before running up to Pack Horse like current 225/54 (old 224/5), then dropping down to Bailiff Bridge, like the old 223/4's did Before the renumbering there used to be a Sunday only service that did current 220/1 (whichever one goes up Middleton Road and Albert Road then Peel Street and Clough Street) then went the 214 route after Morley to the Birstall retail park and then onto hecky and wherever it went after. Was it 226 or 227 at the time? Sent from my D6603 using proboards |
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Post by whereami on Aug 19, 2016 21:08:16 GMT 1
Yes, 255 is actually made up of 223/4/5/6/7. You forgot to mention the 227 which ran Evenings and Sunday via 226 route from Leeds to Halifax, but, went via Bailiff Bridge, instead of Norwood Green. 223-5 to Birkenshaw Roundabout, then 225 to Oxford Road/West Lane area of Gomersal, from there to Cleckheaton it's 225/6, to bus station, then effectively it's the 223 again to Scholes, (officially 226/7 went round Turnstead Estate), before following the 226/7 route to Wyke, and then the 227 route down to Bailiff Bridge, and then doing 223/4/7 routes to Halifax. Unless, of course, you're including the old 226 route of 1977/78 era that came from Leeds to Birstall like current 220/2, then towards Hecky like current 209, then current 221 into Hecky, then like current & old 268/A to Cleck, before running up to Pack Horse like current 225/54 (old 224/5), then dropping down to Bailiff Bridge, like the old 223/4's did Before the renumbering there used to be a Sunday only service that did current 220/1 (whichever one goes up Middleton Road and Albert Road then Peel Street and Clough Street) then went the 214 route after Morley to the Birstall retail park and then onto hecky and wherever it went after. Was it 226 or 227 at the time? Sent from my D6603 using proboards That was every evening only as far as Bruntcliffe lights and was 220. At one time, 281 Evenings and Sundays did Thornhill - Dewsbury - Batley - Howden Clough - Birstall - Fieldhead - Retail Park - Bruntcliffe - Morley - White Rose - Leeds |
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Aug 19, 2016 21:45:49 GMT 1
Apart from the current number 70, in the Leeds area has there ever been a service 70? Also, apart from the historical Harrogate Wetherby York 79 route which in reality didn't serve the Leeds area, has there ever been a service 79 in Leeds?
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Aug 19, 2016 22:29:07 GMT 1
Apart from the current number 70, in the Leeds area has there ever been a service 70? Also, apart from the historical Harrogate Wetherby York 79 route which in reality didn't serve the Leeds area, has there ever been a service 79 in Leeds? The 78/79 group. There was the 78/78A Wetherby - Harrogate - Tadcaster. And then the 79 Harrogate - Wetherby - York Parts taken over by the 770 Harrogate - Boston Spa section and the 79 part became Arrivas 412. Wetherby - York - Selby. Ah they has been. A few times there was a 70 in 1999 with optional bus that did a Rodley - Coldcotes Circus like a 17A. Then in 2002 there was a 70 Leeds - Scott Hall - Wigton Moor, replaced the Leeds - Scott Hall - Wigton Moor 48 The 70 was replaced by a Leeds -Scott Hall - Wigton Moor 47. Which is now replaced by the Middleton - Leeds - Chapeltown - Wigton Moor 48. |
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Post by pub146g on Aug 20, 2016 2:59:24 GMT 1
Leeds City Transport service 70 (Bus Station to Primley Park) was a long established route going back to the 50's and even before that it ran from Bus Station to Moortown. It was still running as service 70 into the PTE era as part of the Scott Hall routes 34/35/37/43/70. Afterwards the Primley route became 33 at some point but can't remember dates just now, then it became 71 with later short lived extentions to Bradford. Then it reverted to Leeds to Primley 71 until it changed to the 7 in 2010.
Leeds routes 79 & 80 were routes which came about when LCT took over Farsley Omnibus in 1968 and ran Pudsey - Horsforth/Tinshill via different routes. AEC Swifts were used on these initially but I remember Bramley using Fleetline single decks 1220/1221 (Bramley's only two Fleetlines) regularly on these services from early 1970 until a few months later when all 30 single deck Fleetlines were concentrated at Torre Road.
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Post by mk2mcw on Aug 20, 2016 16:16:10 GMT 1
Leeds City Transport service 70 (Bus Station to Primley Park) was a long established route going back to the 50's and even before that it ran from Bus Station to Moortown. It was still running as service 70 into the PTE era as part of the Scott Hall routes 34/35/37/43/70. Afterwards the Primley route became 33 at some point but can't remember dates just now, then it became 71 with later short lived extentions to Bradford. Then it reverted to Leeds to Primley 71 until it changed to the 7 in 2010. Leeds routes 79 & 80 were routes which came about when LCT took over Farsley Omnibus in 1968 and ran Pudsey - Horsforth/Tinshill via different routes. AEC Swifts were used on these initially but I remember Bramley using Fleetline single decks 1220/1221 (Bramley's only two Fleetlines) regularly on these services from early 1970 until a few months later when all 30 single deck Fleetlines were concentrated at Torre Road. there was a 70 in the late 90's which ran leeds-rodley competing with optional bus who were running a 17A and X17 it ran alongside the 670 and 671 and was jointly operated with first Bradford after optional bus were bought out it became a peak time service between rodley-leeds-gipton coldcotes circus. |
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Post by mk2mcw on Aug 20, 2016 16:17:38 GMT 1
number 17 hasn't been used in leeds for a long time didn't it used to run from seacroft-rodley and before that whinmoor-leeds-farsley?
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Post by A1YBG on Aug 20, 2016 17:58:24 GMT 1
number 17 hasn't been used in leeds for a long time didn't it used to run from seacroft-rodley and before that whinmoor-leeds-farsley? Dont recall a 20,21 or 39 being used for a while I do know 41 used to be the current 49. 57 used to run Swarcliffe - Ireland Wood 81 and 82 used to Holt Park - Pudsey via Rodley. Sent from my D6603 using proboards |
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