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Post by jdodger08 on Apr 30, 2016 12:09:27 GMT 1
I have always wondered why Arriva own YT but recently have been very poor at helping them out considering YT have had a troubled year.
I think Arriva should step in, kill the tiger and convert most of the operations into Arriva. I mean they are stupid to have not taken the opportunity to own a Depot in Leeds and own the Airport Services.
What do you guys think?
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Post by 112jct41 on Apr 30, 2016 13:20:23 GMT 1
I have always wondered why Arriva own YT but recently have been very poor at helping them out considering YT have had a troubled year. I think Arriva should step in, kill the tiger and convert most of the operations into Arriva. I mean they are stupid to have not taken the opportunity to own a Depot in Leeds and own the Airport Services. What do you guys think? In a way Arriva r trying to keep it going we need to give ot a few months so the new manager can settle in and work things out then if he cant then the arriva full takeover may be viable. |
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Post by deerfold on Apr 30, 2016 14:00:54 GMT 1
Presumably if they convert it to Arriva then the drivers will expect to be paid Arriva wages. That'll up costs quite a lot and may make some routes uneconomic.
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Post by shedman on Apr 30, 2016 14:40:43 GMT 1
On the grand scale of things are YT doing all that bad? Yeah they've lost a few tendered services and had the incident at the depot wiping out a few buses, what else have I missed? Agreed the fleet is looking tired and not as great as it should but that won't concern Arriva too much since they don't carry the name.
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Post by pub146g on Apr 30, 2016 15:45:15 GMT 1
I doubt Arriva will 'step in' because the two identities are intentionally separate. The following is an extract from an operator publication issued at the time of the launch and explains why they're separate and I think the final paragraph sums it up:
"Of course there are real reasons for keeping Yorkshire Tiger and Arriva’s ‘traditional’ bus business in the county separate and primarily it is one of cost. While Arriva Yorkshire has a core commercial network, Yorkshire Tiger has an air of an entrepreneurial upstart. Its bread and butter work are routes operated on behalf of local authorities and more marginal commercial operations. But wouldn’t it have been much simpler and easier to bolt the business on to the Arriva Yorkshire operation? Gilbert parallels the situation with the supermarket industry.
“Arriva Yorkshire is more like the mainstream supermarkets like Tesco or Sainsbury’s,” he says. “We have a very different approach and we’re probably more like Aldi or Lidl; one of the discounters. They’ve changed over the last few years from being perceived as the cheap option with sometimes questionable quality to a position of offering good value. That’s where we’re coming from and where we’re positioning the business.
“At heart we’re a low cost operation. You could say that it would make sense to tack the business onto Arriva Yorkshire, but it wouldn’t really work. When you take into account things like central overheads, it would be impossible for the business to make any sort of meaningful return. It needed a different approach to work.”
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Apr 30, 2016 16:02:16 GMT 1
Yorkshire Tiger is Arriva's low cost unit! and full or partial integration with Arriva Yorkshire West would push costs up considerably.
Since its inception and I include Centrebus here it as until recently won the majority of tendered work bid for and operates quite a few marginal services.
The growth of both TLC and LOT as changed things as both can operate cheaper than Tiger.
Im sure the new management team will try turn things around,but as always in the bus industry these things take time.
As a footnote, bidding for tenders Arriva Yorkshire have lost parts of 231/2 229 and 256 to First! what have First ever won off Yorkshire Tiger?
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Post by 112jct41 on Apr 30, 2016 18:15:21 GMT 1
Okay enough slagging both arriva and yorkshire tiger off. Arriva have helped as best they can since the fire at elland and flood at leeds depots. Arriva also do maintainance on the tiger fleet. Everyone needs to give the new manager chance to settle in as he's only been with them a fortnight. Tiger are starting to improve and get back on its proverbial feet however there may be changes afoot service wise as the results for the 80's,231/232/241 & 435/436/437 network review from Metro and then for whats happening at Leeds depot the North Leeds review when the results for that are out in towards the end of this year. Also to be taken into account is the school runs as it cant be 100% guaranteed they will stay the same.
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Post by mutty on Apr 30, 2016 19:32:57 GMT 1
I think that once Leeds depot shuts, tiger blue should be merged with Waterloo and a new depot found, both depots at the minute look shabby and all the buses look daft squashed up together. Tiger blue hasn't worked, so I'd rebrand as Yorkshire tiger and then centralise all Huddersfield operations. Arriva are doing a decent job all things considered , tiger has gone way down hill since that guy left, but let's hope it's turning a corner.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 30, 2016 19:43:12 GMT 1
The new management team have been in place about 5 minutes, so why not wait until deciding what has or hasn't worked.
There are many threads here documenting the decline over the past year, not sure we need another one. That period should now be coming to an end so give them time.
I'm also not sure what Arriva are supposed to "step in" and do, on an operation they already own anyway.
Arriva would love to own the airport routes? They already do!
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Post by whereami on Apr 30, 2016 21:01:35 GMT 1
I think that once Leeds depot shuts, tiger blue should be merged with Waterloo and a new depot found, both depots at the minute look shabby and all the buses look daft squashed up together. Tiger blue hasn't worked, so I'd rebrand as Yorkshire tiger and then centralise all Huddersfield operations. Arriva are doing a decent job all things considered , tiger has gone way down hill since that guy left, but let's hope it's turning a corner. From what I've been told by an employee of YT based at Waterloo, you're not far wrong about Tiger Blue, disappearing, with it then becoming Yorkshire Tiger instead, maybe that's why, Tiger Blue, are still using YT's 618/627, getting passengers used to seeing Orange buses operating on their services. Like what as already been mentioned before, in this thread, Yorkshire Tiger etc, are the low cost unit, and doubt very much, that they would rebrand them as Arriva Yorkshire, although, Arriva as a whole, do tend to sell off, some of the loss making depots to independent companies. |
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Post by X212HHE on Apr 30, 2016 21:29:18 GMT 1
I think that once Leeds depot shuts, tiger blue should be merged with Waterloo and a new depot found, both depots at the minute look shabby and all the buses look daft squashed up together. Tiger blue hasn't worked, so I'd rebrand as Yorkshire tiger and then centralise all Huddersfield operations. Arriva are doing a decent job all things considered , tiger has gone way down hill since that guy left, but let's hope it's turning a corner. From what I've been told by an employee of YT based at Waterloo, you're not far wrong about Tiger Blue, disappearing, with it then becoming Yorkshire Tiger instead, maybe that's why, Tiger Blue, are still using YT's 618/627, getting passengers used to seeing Orange buses operating on their services. Like what as already been mentioned before, in this thread, Yorkshire Tiger etc, are the low cost unit, and doubt very much, that they would rebrand them as Arriva Yorkshire, although, Arriva as a whole, do tend to sell off, some of the loss making depots to independent companies. That could well be the case however 627 was back at Waterloo depot today parked up with the array of different liveried buses that are also there |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 0:23:23 GMT 1
Even if it is a low cost unit,it could still be under the Arriva name,doesn't one of the First bus operations have a low cost unit sharing depots with the normal unit (i think it`s Glasgow?),if first can do it why not Arriva
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on May 1, 2016 14:40:36 GMT 1
Even if it is a low cost unit,it could still be under the Arriva name,doesn't one of the First bus operations have a low cost unit sharing depots with the normal unit (i think it`s Glasgow?),if first can do it why not Arriva There was First Quickstep which was the low cost unit within First Leeds. Which then merged into the leeds unit and lost the Quickstep name. Sent from my D6603 using proboards |
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Post by rider5521 on May 1, 2016 19:01:41 GMT 1
Tiger will be fine.....just wait and see...
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Post by 112jct41 on May 1, 2016 20:31:16 GMT 1
Tiger will be fine.....just wait and see... exactly what I've said several times. We need to give them chance to re-build, improve and develop under a leader. The only way Arriva HQ can help is by cascadeding decent buses from other depots and are no longer wanted but are still reliable like recently with the alx400s, the geminis, the 3 cadets, the 2 darts pointers, the 51 plate solo and the wright renown. |
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on May 1, 2016 21:14:05 GMT 1
Tiger will be fine.....just wait and see... I have no doubts that it will be fine in time. The management team need to be given time to settle down and look at the routes and problems and see what solutions they can come up with. |
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Post by passenger859 on May 1, 2016 21:15:52 GMT 1
I'd personally like to see the operations merged and marketed under the Arriva banner. What is the point of Arriva having a corporate identity if they're going to maintain a separate local one? Wasn't that the idea of pulling it all together in the first place around late '97 time (dropping of West Riding Buses, Yorkshire Buses, Tees fleet names etc?).
Arriva are the second operator (in terms of volumes of services) in both Leeds and Huddersfield. Putting them all under one banner would strengthen their position and help grow the identity.
I live in central Leeds and regularly travel to Morley and the eastern suburbs of Leeds (Cross Gates/Whitkirk) and will generally choose Arriva services over First for both. One reason for this being that I also travel regularly from Leeds City Centre to Rothwell (services provided by Arriva only) so under current ticketing circumstances the Arriva m-tickets work best for me.
It annoys me that I currently can't use the above ticket on Yorkshire Tiger services, eg 231.
In terms of budget operations, we see Stagecoach's "Magic bus" identity operation working successfully between Manchester City Centre and Didsbury on the Wilmslow Road corridor, even with recent increased competition from First. At least Stagecoach tickets are valid on Magic Bus and Magic Bus buses now clearly labelled 'Stagecoach'. Okay, you know bus on Magic Bus may be a bit older but I've always found the interiors presentable.
I guess the difference here (with above) is that it's the same legal operating company (GM Buses South) and budget services work on a high demand volume route, rather than primarily on services in the tendered services market like YT.
Having said the above, when Arriva operated buses under more different legal entity licenses in Yorkshire than it does now, the "Yorkshire Day" ticket was valid on those operated by all licenses (although not sure about on the services in Yorkshire operated by the ex Tees/United bit).
Personally, I would be very surprised if the YT identity is still around in 5 years - or if it still is then I think it will perhaps under different ownership. The branding is a good idea in principle but to me it does not sit comfortably as part of a larger group operating services in the same patch. A mate of mine who lives in Scotland regularly uses the Airport services when visiting Leeds and didn't even realise that YT was related to Arriva!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 1, 2016 23:56:20 GMT 1
Not sure decisions made in 1997 have any relevance to what is going on now almost 20 years later.
Back then the big groups were just starting out so branded everything in a single livery, now they allow certain operations to be branded outside of the corporate image, various rail franchises such as Crosscountry Trains and the new Northern, are a good example of this.
I recall in North Wales even the open top buses received plain Arriva livery without any special branding in those early Arriva years.
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Post by trixmax2000 on May 2, 2016 18:20:54 GMT 1
Tiger will be fine.....just wait and see... The new man is from over my side of the Big Hill with Arriva NW&W the last few years he had been the operations manager at Bangor depot. |
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Post by 112jct41 on May 2, 2016 18:23:50 GMT 1
Tiger will be fine.....just wait and see... The new man is from over my side of the Big Hill with Arriva NW&W the last few years he had been the operations manager at Bangor depot. no he's not he's from First York. |
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Post by trixmax2000 on May 2, 2016 19:17:06 GMT 1
Sorry for that mistake
ok one of the new team as come from Arriva North West & Wales
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Post by rider5521 on May 2, 2016 20:00:27 GMT 1
Simon Finnie is the MD he is from Arriva North West and Wales. The head of operations is Stuart Fillingham who was from First York, prior to that First West Yorkshire, and prior to that York Pullman. Simon Finnie has a reputation as a great leader, Stuart is a very hands on individual with a passion and dedication for this industry, and a huge amount of respect, having worked with him he will help make it work.
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Post by trixmax2000 on May 2, 2016 21:05:26 GMT 1
Simon as always had a lot of respect by staff at Arriva NW&W, and as said has a reputation as a great leader,
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