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Post by jackh on May 22, 2008 18:28:34 GMT 1
It of must of been ten years since Briggate was pedestrianised and buses use Vicar Lane instead northbound.
However, most bus companies that operate into Leeds blame the City Centre for unreliability to services especially on Saturday afternoons and was one of the reasons why Stagecoach had axed the X62 from Huddersfield.
If Briggate was to be openned again to allow buses down, it would ease problems of congestion along Vicar Lane. Plus the complicated filter systems at the Headrow/Vicar Lane junction and Corn Exchange could be simplifield meaning more traffic, most importantly buses can get through sequences at the lights.
Plus Vicar Lane would become one way again southbound.
Another benefit includes as the left hand lane on Duncan Street towards Corn Exchange which buses use to turn left onto New Market Street. That road space could be used for extra bus stops to ease the over crowded K5 and K6 bus stops on Call Lane which can often block the road off.
I'm sure many other tweaks to road layouts could also be made. All of which could have a large influence on running times of buses through the city centre.
However, it wouldn't be likely to happen because the retailers along Briggate would kick and scream as the buses would possibly reduce footfall into their stores. As the likes of M&S, Debenhams and House of Fraser will probably pay some of the highest council tax in England, Leeds City Council will most likely take their side rather than bus companies and the travelling public.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 22, 2008 18:56:14 GMT 1
Congestion seems much less besides a few instances when it is really bad, compared with when Briggate was first closed
Vicar Lane used to be a nightmare with traffic queuing back to the Bus Station, it is much less thesedays
The Headrow and it's single carriageways due to the central reservation is a big problem as buses can often not overtake buses at bus stops
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Post by nick on May 22, 2008 20:32:54 GMT 1
Leeds is a complicated layout. In My Opinion briggate should of never ever been pedestrianized and in fact should of only got what some places have got now which is buses and public vehicles only (park row springs to mind).
Today though with the 2/3/12/13 running every 5 minutes as well 71/35/45/47 running every 5 minutes it is just not worth digging up all that newly layed brick just to ease some of the congestion vicar lane.
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Post by jackh on May 22, 2008 21:01:13 GMT 1
Well along Vicar Lane, the Red and Blue Line means there are 24 buses going that way plus 12 from the Scott Halls and then 8 buses an hour on the 51/51A and not forgetting the 46 as well with two buses an hour so that is 46 buses an hour altogether.
Even though there is not that many buses going along that way, Vicar Lane is still an assault course as illicit parked courier vans in bus stops means buses pulling in block up Vicar Lane, it seems to be worst between the Headrow and Sidney Street.
The Headrow could be improved by removing the cental reservation between Briggate and Park Row. To reduce the possibility of people getting run over, move the pedestrial crossing from the top of Lands Lane to outside the entrance of the Headrow Centre where people cross over more.
However the other problem along the Headrow is that the access restriction isn't enforced properly. If Police did regular crack downs on cars illegaly driving down and were high profile. That should hopefully deter other drivers from doing so. Just a couple of cars means a buses can't get through a set of lights adding further delays to journies.
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Post by Craig on May 22, 2008 22:37:31 GMT 1
The police do have regular crackdowns along the Headrow. Many a time I have seen patrols pulling drivers who shouldn't be there. The central reservation is designed to allow overtaking around most if not all bus stops, however if more than one bus is at the same stop then this causes delays. One particular annoyance is the lights which only allow one (occasionally two) vehicle/s at a time turning right from The Headrow into Albion Street.
Briggate has just been recently and expensively refurbished and also Briggate is the "jewel in the crown" of Leeds' shopping area - there is no way the council will consider re-opening it to traffic. Vicar Lane can get crowded, particularly on Saturdays, although the council's policy of installing traffic lights at regular intervals of approximately every 23 yards does not help, especially as they seem to be programmed to turn to red just after the preceding one has turned green.
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Post by firstinsider on May 23, 2008 0:21:13 GMT 1
The police usually have a blitz on on the headrow in the 3 or 4 weeks leading up to Christmas,hardly regular is it.
The rest of the time drivers do as they please,the police just are not interested.
I drive up and down the headrow 4 or 5 times a day and have never seen the police pull drivers in,other than when they are having their christmas purge.
If you had a couple of coppers outside The Light just pulling drivers,it would pay their wages for a week in less than an hour i bet.
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Post by jimbob90 on May 23, 2008 17:42:40 GMT 1
I'd love to see Briggate re-opened again, I remember my bus stop used to be outside Marks and Spencer. A couple of years ago it could of been re-opened easily, as the road and crossings were still intact, but since the street has been resurfaced it would probably cause too much hassle digging it up again. But you never know what Leeds are going to do next, after all they did all the roadworks for the supertram, and then it never came off!
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MT
Forum Member
Excuse me while I kiss the sky
Posts: 544
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Post by MT on May 23, 2008 19:35:27 GMT 1
I don't know if anybody else has ever noticed, but it hit me today that Leeds has a huge number of buses running through it every day. This morning at around 8:30am I was coming into Leeds on the 508. We were waiting at the lights on The Headrow and I counted over 20 buses going both ways just on Eastgate (a selection of ALX400's, Geminis, FCB, Scania Strider and others), all First Leeds. They where jam packed all the way along Eastgate. The reason I was in Leeds in the morning was because its quiet, hardly anybody about, but yet so many buses.
Now I'm not really complaing because lots of buses and hardly and pedestrians makes great photographing, but it did seem a bit much.
Was it just a one off or is Leeds getting a bit full of buses now? I mean the Free City Bus takes forever to get down the Headrow.
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Post by mattyr88 on May 23, 2008 19:42:49 GMT 1
i dont think they should re open briggate but buses should stop waitin at bus stops around the area clogging it up untill they are due to go. a new lane could be made from that stupid reservation on the headrow and the leeds free bus should be taken off. people should stop being lazy and walk which is probably a quicker method of getting around town. the blind/diabled/elderly can get free bus rides anyway so they dont need the free bus either.
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Post by hfx on May 23, 2008 20:25:59 GMT 1
The removal of 6 mini buses isn't gonna show any significant effect to the traffic on the Headrow. The removal of central reservation is more like the answer.
As for Free City bus...while Normal services are Free to the Elderly/Disabled, they'd have to get on & off to change between places in the city (as not every bus tours the city center) before/leaving it's terminus. So, Free City bus does exactly what normal services don't, > link together all the main bits of the City.
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Post by nick on May 23, 2008 21:42:33 GMT 1
Yeah mattry88 that just seems like a absolute STUPID suggestion!!
Removing the centeral resavtion will only free up one side of headrow because it could not accomdate two lanes. If you look at the headrow between Briggate and Vicar Lane (No Stops apart from H4A or H5) that is what the rest of headrow and eastgate would possible look like without a centeral reservation!!
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Post by jml8371 on May 24, 2008 8:02:34 GMT 1
The way you would free up the traffic on the headrow is to stop all the illegal cars/bikes/vans using it!
Jason
JML8371
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Post by Craig on May 24, 2008 14:06:15 GMT 1
I don't know if anybody else has ever noticed, but it hit me today that Leeds has a huge number of buses running through it every day. Come to think of it, you may be right. Its a revelation! |
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MT
Forum Member
Excuse me while I kiss the sky
Posts: 544
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Post by MT on May 25, 2008 19:31:23 GMT 1
I don't know if anybody else has ever noticed, but it hit me today that Leeds has a huge number of buses running through it every day. Come to think of it, you may be right. Its a revelation! I resent that. |
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markr
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Post by markr on May 26, 2008 9:59:26 GMT 1
I think matthew's comment was along the lines of an excessive number of buses in Leeds at times - not just that there are a lot of buses. Of course there are a lot of buses, no-one's suggesting that this is a new state of affairs, Leeds needs a lot of buses.
The thrust of his comment seemed to be that Leeds is clogging itself up at quiet times of day due to the amount of bus traffic.
Vans parked in bus stops on Vicar Lane and the Headrow were always the worst problem when I was living in Leeds, leading to buses picking up in the carriageway and a queue of buses forming behind - that seemed to be the main cause, rather than the number of buses operating. Some effective monitoring of services to prevent bunching (three 56s in five minutes not uncommon, for example) would also even things out a bit.
Some other road junctions need looking at as well, and bus stop locations are not always in the right place - buses not fitting in the stop and blocking the road with their tails comes to mind.
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on May 26, 2008 13:07:54 GMT 1
Some effective monitoring of services to prevent bunching (three 56s in five minutes not uncommon, for example) would also even things out a bit. agreed it is common, but i noted a first employee(suited and booted) stood on the corner of eastgate/vicar lane with his notebook making notes on something. possibly monitoring where buses layover/times etc?? |
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Post by dougie on May 26, 2008 13:26:08 GMT 1
There's a lot of buses from the east that terminate around the railway station area, and a lot of buses from the west that terminate at the bus station (or thereabouts).
Whilst I appreciate that not all of these are suitable candidates for cross city running (especially the longer distance ones), the busy Headrow/ Boar Lane sections could be emptier if some rationalisations could be found.
Off the top of my head, how's about linking the 40 and 96? Linking the 37 and 71? Linking the 35/45 and 64/68? Linking the 5 and the 85/87? Linking the 55 and 95? The 73 and the...
I'm not being entirely serious with some of these, sure, but something like this would cut vehicle movements in the city centre whilst retaining the same service to the suburbs.
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Post by nick on May 26, 2008 14:38:40 GMT 1
Whilst I appreciate that not all of these are suitable candidates for cross city running (especially the longer distance ones), the busy Headrow/ Boar Lane sections could be emptier if some rationalisations could be found. Off the top of my head, how's about linking the 40 and 96? Linking the 37 and 71? Linking the 35/45 and 64/68? Linking the 5 and the 85/87? Linking the 55 and 95? The 73 and the... 40 and the 96. How would that one work?? I am saying that because the 40 and 50/50A interwork at seacroft bus station. 37 and 71 wouldn't work because both of there terminus are at Infirmary street and i am sure that first would like to keep it that way. 35/45 and the 64/68 could possibly work but only with a re-routing through town!! 55/95 is the best one out of the lot. The only thing is the 55 would have to loose it link with the bus station and start from park row and loose the 55 number and have it running as the 95 from Bodington Hall to Morley. Here is my suggestion: 73/85/87 all into one route and a re-route through town possibly from A58-Westgate,Headrow,Vicar Lane then the 85/87 route to Morley and from Morley normal route then New Market Street,Vicar Lane, Headrow, Westgate then A58 onto Normal route Cant think of any that would be visible!!! |
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Post by dougie on May 26, 2008 16:06:09 GMT 1
The 40 used to be cross town, running Pudsey - Armley - City Centre - Selby Road - Seacroft - Jimmys - City Centre - Kirkstall - Bramley (changing to the "41" at Seacroft), so it's been done before I suppose...
The 37 is a fairly short route out of town - it must take as long to get from Infirmary Street to the Bus Station/ Bingo stop as it does to get out to Halton Moor at times - by extending something like the 71 (which would have to run Headrow - Park Row - Boar Lane - Kirkgate) you'd potentially save a couple of buses and reduce congestion in the City Centre. And if the 71 was extended like that then the 35/45 (and 47) could run the same way through the City Centre onto the 64/68?
As I say, these are just off the top of my head, but it's an important issue. Now that Leeds has a free city centre bus running very frequently, there's no need for every bus from one side of town to run to the other side of the city centre (unless it's extending out of town)...
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Post by jimbob90 on May 26, 2008 18:10:11 GMT 1
Slightly off topic, but I remember when buses use to run along Queen Street in Morley. It was always a busy town, but as soon as they pedestrianised it, it became a quieter town, as many people used to park along Queen Street, as well as the buses having to take a de-tour around the outside of the town.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 26, 2008 20:24:44 GMT 1
Why are people saying the 37 and the 71 would be a good cross town route, they both enter the city from almost the same point and run the same route from starting at Infirmary Street to Vicar Lane
The 37 combining with something like the 73 or 5 would be more obvious, but they don't run frequent enough
At the end of the day though, the number of buses in service isn't a problem, it's bad design of bus stops meaning buses stick out and block the road, vans parking in laybys, too many taxis queuing on New Station Street, First leaving buses dumped around the city centre for hours blocking bus stops
If you think Leeds is bad, you should see Manchester
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Post by dougie on May 26, 2008 22:54:14 GMT 1
Why are people saying the 37 and the 71 would be a good cross town route, they both enter the city from almost the same point and run the same route from starting at Infirmary Street to Vicar Lane As I said, it'd mean the 71 running via Park Row to get to Boar Lane then along towards Vicar Lane - it was just a suggestion to combine two single deck routes that run at the same frequency to avoid duplication in the city centre. Think of all the buses on the Scot Hall Road services that trundle round from the Headrow to the train station/ Infirmary Street and back round again (and how they slow other buses at busy junctions) - it's a waste of buses, a waste of drivers, a waste of fuel and gets in the way of other routes. By combining two services in the City Centre you start to tackle those problems. Was through in Manchester on Saturday, the central stops were as messy as ever... |
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Post by nick on May 29, 2008 19:20:07 GMT 1
The only route's that could be combined are the ones that go cross city!!!
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Post by jackh on Jun 14, 2008 20:42:58 GMT 1
Back to the Headrow problem with cars going through illegaly. Maybe the installation of bollards could help with buses fitted with tags which causes the bollard to drop. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjgq2Bgbc_0 |
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Post by Craig on Jun 14, 2008 20:59:09 GMT 1
Hmm, so then the buses can be slowed down through Leeds city centre even more while they wait for bollards to drop, and then the whole road can get closed when an idiot driver tries to outrun them going back up!
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