New service to Thorpe Park

[humberside]

From VOSA:

PB0004317/5 STAR TRAVEL (HOLIDAYS) LTD, UNIT 33, CALDER VALE MILLS, HEALEY RD, OSSETT, WF5 8NF
Registration Accepted by SN:
Starting Point: Cross Gates Train Station
Finish Point: Thorpe Park Business Park
Via:
Service Number: X69
Service Type: Limited Stop
Effective Date: 12-MAY-2008
Other Details: Mondays to Fridays

[Craig]

This service is funded by the owners of Thorpe Park to encourage travel to work by public transport.

[kendall17]

such a long service... could possibly link it to garforth for a bus service between the train stations, as First TPE dont regularly stop in x gates.

[Craig]

Why? A service has only just been registered, purely because the operator is guaranteed profitability due to funding, and already we are extending it to provide a station to station link (which, surprisingly enough, is actually provided by the train...).

Yes its not the longest service ever created, but it is a long walk between Cross Gates Station and Thorpe Park.

[kendall17]

never mind about my extension. ive thought it through. is the service going to be free to employees of thorpe park? Star Travel wont be bothered but isn't there alot of competition to/from crossgates to around thorpe park?

[Craig]

You are right that the 9, 163, 164, 166, 402 all provide a link between Cross Gates and Colton Sainsburys.

As is often the case with large new developments, I suspect a condition of the planning approval may have been for the provision of public transport facilities. When the site was first opened, the 29 and 30 were introduced providing links to East Leeds suburbs, and indeed the main road through the development was built with bus lay-bys. However the 29/30 didn't last that long and now the developers are perhaps having to fulfil this requirement, although in practice getting a train from Leeds to Cross Gates and then a bus the rest of the way doesn't seem like the best idea.

[kendall17]

yeah its a strange one, same with garforth though. surely they can interwork a bus service already operated into the estate? or just offer a coach service? like O2 do?

[bc]

Apr 23, 2008 22:32:34 GMT 1 Craig said:

You are right that the 9, 163, 164, 166, 402 all provide a link between Cross Gates and Colton Sainsburys.

As is often the case with large new developments, I suspect a condition of the planning approval may have been for the provision of public transport facilities. When the site was first opened, the 29 and 30 were introduced providing links to East Leeds suburbs, and indeed the main road through the development was built with bus lay-bys. However the 29/30 didn't last that long and now the developers are perhaps having to fulfil this requirement, although in practice getting a train from Leeds to Cross Gates and then a bus the rest of the way doesn't seem like the best idea.

I have long thought that extending a few morning and evening peak 18A journeys from Colton Sainsbury's to start/end at Thorpe Park would be sufficient to cater for Thorpe Park commuters, and would provide them with a (more-or-less) direct link into the city...

I don't like to 'rubbish' an idea before it's begun but if there's going to be one (brand new??) vehicle designated to running this new service, then that really would be a poor use of resources in my opinion given that similar or better connections could be provided by a simple re-routing of existing services without the need to increase any PVR.

Let's hope it's a success this time - it's important to remember that the business park has grown somewhat since the days of the 29/30...

[jackh]

Don't forget the peak time 18A extension runs to Garforth currently, I suppose it could run through the office park.

[bc]

Apr 26, 2008 19:48:28 GMT 1 @jackh said:

Don't forget the peak time 18A extension runs to Garforth currently, I suppose it could run through the office park.

That's one solution, although currently outbound (from Leeds) AM journeys only run to Colton and inbound PM journeys only run from Colton, so there may be scope for the Thorpe Park extension at these times without really affecting the peak time Garforth extension...

Speaking of the Garforth Ninelands extension, I've often wondered whether it would be worthwhile for First to make this a regular, daytime extension. It would certainly give an advantage over Arriva's constantly chopped and changed Garforth routes which take a somewhat convolluted route to Ninelands Lane/Fairburn Drive. But, in the meantime, the peak 18A extension seems to do a nice trade!

[Craig]

The X2 (as the 18A was previously known) did for a number of years run as an all day service via Ninelands Lane and terminated at East Garforth. These days First perhaps wouldn't want to re-introduce such a service as it might upset Arriva too much, and as we know from the past competition isn't something either company is particularly keen on.

In a sensible world the 18A would just extend the 2 minutes up the road to Thorpe Park, the timetable will easily allow for this small extension and it would stop buses blocking the lay-by on Selby Road. As Jack points out, the Garforth extensions can also run through Thorpe Park and then use the north entrance/exit on to the M1 slip roads to rejoin Selby Road. But First have probably been waiting for a subsidy to do this and sadly probably won't do it for free.

[bc]

Apr 27, 2008 11:59:29 GMT 1 Craig said:

These days First perhaps wouldn't want to re-introduce such a service as it might upset Arriva too much, and as we know from the past competition isn't something either company is particularly keen on.

Very true, especially for Arriva whose territory in Castleford/Pontefract has been quite substantially 'invaded' in recent years with the likes of M Travel, SYM, etc, but yet Arriva continues to cut services even on these competitive routes.

Because of this, I can't help but think that Arriva might fail to respond (straightaway? or ever?) to any increased competition on the Leeds-Garforth corridor. However, as you say, it's unlikely to happen and I think if First had any interest in reintroducing the daytime Ninelands link they would have done so by now. It's interesting how Arriva and First both have significant operations into Leeds (some of which sharing a common corridor) and yet, for a long time now, there has been little in the way of direct competition between the two...

[nick]

All the talk of extending the 18A to and from Thorpe Park made me think wouldn't it be far easier to extend the 18 services into Thorpe Park be far easier.

That way workers can get a bus direct from The city and vice versa and no extra buses or drivers are need for a extension of the service!!

[Craig]

BC: One of the main reasons Arriva and First don't compete in Leeds is because they (illegally) made an agreement (as previously discussed on here when Arriva dropped the local Leeds routes and First handed back the 223/224). Hence harmony was brought to the streets of Leeds, even if it did breach anti-competitive legislation.

Nick: Why oh why do you continue to take reasonable ideas and make them impractical for no good reason. The 18A extension idea would not require any increase in resources and would provide a service between the City Centre and Thorpe Park - so how is that any different to your "new" idea to divert the 18 instead (other than giving East Garforth passengers a longer journey).

[jimbob90]

From what I've heard, Star Travel are to use a Plaxton Pointer for the X69 service.

[kendall17]

Seen today on the X69 was an R plate Optare Metrorider and this evening an Alexander Dash maybe a Volvo? this Alexander was plain white with vinyls on it advertising the service rather poorly in my opinion. only saw 1 person on it aswell!