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Post by gooderson1 on Mar 9, 2015 14:03:24 GMT 1
I require help with the following. A bus route runs from Town A to Town B partially in built up areas and partly in the countryside. The part in the countryside is hail and ride where it is safe to do so. Does this apply to towns where there are bus stops.
The incident occurred recently in Whitby at the bus station. Despite a queue of 10 people(me included) the bus sailed past the stop and kept going. I have challenged the operator and the quote was the whole of the route is Hail and Ride and passengers should have indicated. Other services by the same operator managed to stop to pick up passengers. The fact that it is apparently hail and ride is not shown on any online or roadside timetable.
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Post by gooderson1 on Mar 9, 2015 14:11:03 GMT 1
Sorry a jerky mouse button has struck. I should have posted this in the North Yorkshire part of the forum
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Bus stops
Mar 9, 2015 16:39:31 GMT 1
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Post by Dom on Mar 9, 2015 16:39:31 GMT 1
Not 100% sure in NY! But in WY, on the timetables printed and online, it would state that roads which are hail and ride would be in italic writing.
And I'm sure if there is no stop for over a mile the route must be hail on ride on that section, and you should signal to the bus to stop in safe area
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Post by gooderson1 on Mar 9, 2015 17:01:05 GMT 1
Thanks I am sure that the timetable at bus stop 4 o/s Whitby Station mentioned nothing about hail and ride. Certainly the on line timetable makes no mention of hail and ride. I find it difficult to understand why an operator would not stop at a bus station to pick up passengers. For an area of North Yorkshire that depends to a certain extent on visitors/tourism ignoring a bus stop as the service is registered as hail and ride is not a good idea.
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 9, 2015 18:42:33 GMT 1
Personally hail and ride should banned unless the road is clearly signed as such, all too often it is used by operators who are too tight to put up bus stop signs whereas if the alternative was to label every lamppost they would quickly acquire the necessary signs and posts. And by signing the stop they actually publicise the service exists.
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kuyoyo
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Post by kuyoyo on Mar 9, 2015 20:25:18 GMT 1
Thanks I am sure that the timetable at bus stop 4 o/s Whitby Station mentioned nothing about hail and ride. Certainly the on line timetable makes no mention of hail and ride. I find it difficult to understand why an operator would not stop at a bus station to pick up passengers. For an area of North Yorkshire that depends to a certain extent on visitors/tourism ignoring a bus stop as the service is registered as hail and ride is not a good idea. Which service were you waiting for?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 9, 2015 20:31:04 GMT 1
Not sure I get the point in the first post, are just basically saying nobody hailed the bus so it sailed past.
The fact that you were waiting at a bus stop shows it wasn't a "hail and ride" area as then there wouldn't be a bus stop at all!
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Bus stops
Mar 10, 2015 0:00:52 GMT 1
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 10, 2015 0:00:52 GMT 1
The thing about hail and ride is a bit of a red herring. Buses don't stop at a stop unless passengers are waiting to get on/off, or it's a timing point and they need to wait for time. Where a stop is only used by one route, it's obvious that any passengers waiting will want the bus that comes along next - but where the stop is used by multiple routes, passengers should indicate to the bus driver if they want to get on, so that he can stop if he needs to or carry on if he doesn't.
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Post by pub146g on Mar 10, 2015 3:20:46 GMT 1
The thing about hail and ride is a bit of a red herring. Buses don't stop at a stop unless passengers are waiting to get on/off, or it's a timing point and they need to wait for time. Where a stop is only used by one route, it's obvious that any passengers waiting will want the bus that comes along next - but where the stop is used by multiple routes, passengers should indicate to the bus driver if they want to get on, so that he can stop if he needs to or carry on if he doesn't. Indeed, sometimes intending passengers do tend to just stand there like lemons and I witnessed one of many such events a few weeks back in Leeds at The Headrow stop opposite the town hall (outbound - 45029167). This stop is served by the 19,49,50,50A & 72 and the shelter was packed with people around 17:30, a 72 Hyperlink appeared and slowed up on the approach to the stop but nobody moved, no hands out, nothing. This resulted in the 72 just regaining speed and moving off, at which point the previously inanimate passengers suddenly woke up with cries of "Eh, what's he doing" etc as the bus disappeared onward through the lights. Another I witnessed was at the Arndale Headingley outbound stop when an X84 appeared and slowed up, again no movement from those hovering around the shelter, until that is the bus had gone past and all of a sudden hands were waving around to no avail. I mean it's not rocket science, I remember Leeds CT timetables in the '60's containing a whole page picture showing how to signal an approching bus in good time if you intend to board. Maybe it's time to repeat that information for the current generation?
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Post by gooderson1 on Mar 10, 2015 7:45:51 GMT 1
In answer to the question above I was waiting for the 1206 Coastal and Country service 99. There were at least 10 persons at the stop which had timetables for a number of services. The vehicle was blue(rather than white) and looked more like a coach than a bus. The only route and destination details was a small yellow sticker at the top of the windscreen on the near side and could not be read until the vehicle level with me. By that time to late although I did way at the driver. The reply to my e mail from the operator was that service is hail and ride and I should have indicated to the driver that I wanted a bus. When I checked yesterday morning the timetable on the website gave no indication that the service was hail and ride. Hence my original posting. Being a visitor to the area from W Yorkshire I assumed that as I was standing at the bus stop at Whitby bus station I expected the bus to stop-how wrong I was
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Post by gooderson1 on Mar 10, 2015 8:07:36 GMT 1
I should have made it clearer in my original posting. Although the route is registered at Hail and Ride is the driver required to stop at bus stops where they are located and persons are waiting. In this case Whitby bus station is alongside the railway station and was busy with passengers
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Mar 10, 2015 9:50:34 GMT 1
This is actually a more complicated answer than it would appear. Hail & Ride applies where the operator registers it to do so, an operator can choose not to apply it at all, apply it to the whole route (the presence or otherwise of bus stops being entirely irrelevant), specified parts of the route or for sections of route with no marked bus stop - it is entirely at the discretion of the operator what they select but it must be registered with the Traffic Commissioner when the service is registered.
There are a number of legitimate reasons for using Hail & Ride as an operator which are far more to do with being customer or community focussed than just cheap (though smaller operators without the financial resources to stock flags and the like may see that as an additional benefit). The major reason to implement Hail & Ride is that it is customer friendly in that it enables you to drop your passenger right outside their house, it is dying out due to the increasing size of buses (& the need for low-floors to get into the curb to make best use of that facility) making it less practical to retain it so these sections are gaining marked bus stops. In rural areas it simply isn't practical or cost effective to erect stops at every side road, footpath & farm lane and it is often unsafe to expect these passengers to walk any distance along unlit roads with no footpath so companies see it as the best way to serve these isolated potential passengers. The other major issue is around some housing estates it is difficult to site stops either due to parking meaning there is no clear point to stop or due to homeowner objections to a stop being located outside their house meaning it is difficult to find somewhere to site it, in these cases having Hail & Ride enables the bus to serve a location that it wouldn't otherwise be able to stop in. Whilst theoretically bus operators can site flags on existing lampposts in many areas (such as West Yorkshire) the local authority retains the right to site all bus stops, and if there is no suitable lamppost to affix a flag to the local authority needs to be involved to install a bus stop pole in any case. Where a local authority is involved you end up with all sorts of additional considerations before a stop can be installed involving the police and the local community which can mean that stops are never installed.
Unless registered as limited stop bus services should serve all bus stops along route, but in most areas all bus stops are considered as request stops where the prospective passenger needs to indicate they wish the bus to stop. This isn't universal since in a number of places, largely big cities (I know this applied in Cardiff when I worked there) all bus stops will be observed if there is a passenger stood there unless they clearly indicate not to, however unless you know otherwise it is always wise to hail a bus just in case. It is surprising how many passengers don't notice the bus coming or are not expecting the bus they are waiting for to arrive at the time it is scheduled to do so, I suspect that part of the problem is the proliferation of mobile entertainment devices which mean that it is easier to be distracted by something so you are not looking at the road than it used to. You would hope it would only need to happen once for a passenger to work out it is not a sensible thing to do but you are never quite sure.
All that being said I have never worked anywhere that would apply such a logic to a bus station or would support a driver in such a manner who decided to do so. Bus Stations are the one place where no passenger would expect to have to hail the bus and the one point where any reasonable operator would expect their driver to not just stop but open the door and give passengers time to react not simply sail by.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 10, 2015 19:34:38 GMT 1
In answer to the question above I was waiting for the 1206 Coastal and Country service 99. There were at least 10 persons at the stop which had timetables for a number of services. The vehicle was blue(rather than white) and looked more like a coach than a bus. The only route and destination details was a small yellow sticker at the top of the windscreen on the near side and could not be read until the vehicle level with me. By that time to late although I did way at the driver. The reply to my e mail from the operator was that service is hail and ride and I should have indicated to the driver that I wanted a bus. When I checked yesterday morning the timetable on the website gave no indication that the service was hail and ride. Hence my original posting. Being a visitor to the area from W Yorkshire I assumed that as I was standing at the bus stop at Whitby bus station I expected the bus to stop-how wrong I was But nobody signalled for it to stop, therefore it was well in its rights to carry on, nothing to do with Hail and Ride.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 10, 2015 19:37:02 GMT 1
]Indeed, sometimes intending passengers do tend to just stand there like lemons and I witnessed one of many such events a few weeks back in Leeds at The Headrow stop opposite the town hall (outbound - 45029167). This stop is served by the 19,49,50,50A & 72 and the shelter was packed with people around 17:30, a 72 Hyperlink appeared and slowed up on the approach to the stop but nobody moved, no hands out, nothing. This resulted in the 72 just regaining speed and moving off, at which point the previously inanimate passengers suddenly woke up with cries of "Eh, what's he doing" etc as the bus disappeared onward through the lights. Followed no doubt by posts to FWY's Twitter account calling them all the words under the sun for not stopping!
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Steve Macz403
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Waits at the bus stop for his bus, 2 days later bus turns up :D
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Bus stops
Mar 10, 2015 21:08:02 GMT 1
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Mar 10, 2015 21:08:02 GMT 1
The whole putting your hand out for the bus depends on where you live.
My friend lives in Hebden bridge and he doesn't put his hand out, and the bus stops.
Moment he comes to Leeds or Manchester, he realised the bus won't stop unless he puts his hand out.
Bizarre moment. One time I put my hand out for a 50 on beckett street on a Saturday and the bus drove right past with no one on it. Mind you I was a kid in the 90s then. The bus wasn't out of service blinds were "50 HORSFORTH"
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