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Post by timelesstable on Sept 23, 2013 22:16:35 GMT 1
A disabled man has won a legal ruling against a bus company over its wheelchair policy. Doug Paulley from Wetherby, West Yorkshire, took First Bus Group to court after he was told he could not get on a bus because a pushchair user refused to give up the space. A judge at Leeds County Court ruled the "first come first served" policy was unlawful discrimination in breach of the Equality Act 2010. First said it was "disappointed". www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24214346 |
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Post by rwilkes on Sept 23, 2013 23:29:08 GMT 1
Bus companies now need a legal right to move a passenger. This would mean summoning a police officer and delaying the bus.
I am in favour of wheelchair users but it cannot be the bus companies duty on a purely practical basis
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Sept 24, 2013 7:38:16 GMT 1
Bus companies now need a legal right to move a passenger. This would mean summoning a police officer and delaying the bus. I am in favour of wheelchair users but it cannot be the bus companies duty on a purely practical basis Despite what the ruling said, most companies have looked at the DDA regulations, and come to the same agreement - wheelchairs users can only use the space if available - if an occupant refused to move, them the driver can't force them to. First simply need to appeal under the DDA rules using the argument that forcing the pushchair to move would be 'positive discrimination' towards the wheelchair user, which is also illegal. |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Sept 24, 2013 11:34:21 GMT 1
Arriva has been taken to court over this in Darlington, however has won the case.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Sept 24, 2013 22:14:56 GMT 1
Stupid situation today on the 33A, wheelchair space taken up by wheelchair user which is fair enough, the other 2 spaces where the flip seats are were taken up by a very fat relitive (she took up 2 seats, Mr Ryanair would have a delighted fit full of pound signs if she boarded one of his planes) and another relitive, neither relitive gave their space up when someone with a pram tried to board, she was therefore told by the driver she couldn't board DESPITE space being free! Was the driver scared the fat one might squash him or can people sat in those spaces have entitlement over pram users?
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Steve Macz403
Forum Member
Waits at the bus stop for his bus, 2 days later bus turns up :D
Posts: 1,678
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Sept 25, 2013 10:05:48 GMT 1
Maybe First West Yorkshire will have to look at ordering new buses with more bay space and less seats, despite seating priority on some routes being needed more than others. Other companies must have experienced this and even areas including Transport for London.
The likely hood of a mother and pram boarding the bus is 5 times higher than they would be a wheelchair user. It really does depend on chance. It's just like waiting for a bus at morning peak, and can't get on,as the bus is full.
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Post by Craig on Sept 25, 2013 19:14:08 GMT 1
Stupid situation today on the 33A, wheelchair space taken up by wheelchair user which is fair enough, the other 2 spaces where the flip seats are were taken up by a very fat relitive (she took up 2 seats, Mr Ryanair would have a delighted fit full of pound signs if she boarded one of his planes) and another relitive, neither relitive gave their space up when someone with a pram tried to board, she was therefore told by the driver she couldn't board DESPITE space being free! Was the driver scared the fat one might squash him or can people sat in those spaces have entitlement over pram users?Neither - the driver can only make a request and it is up to passengers to co-operate. That was the problem that caused the above lawsuit by the wheelchair user. Nobody has any "entitlement". It all depends on goodwill. And sometimes people don't have any of that. However bus companies will now have to make formal rules for the benefit of wheelchair users (rightly so) but this can only be enforced by the driver switching off and refusing to move until police assistance comes along. And I feel very sorry for the drivers with the hassle they'll receive in that situation. |
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Post by Craig on Sept 25, 2013 19:20:18 GMT 1
Maybe First West Yorkshire will have to look at ordering new buses with more bay space and less seats, despite seating priority on some routes being needed more than others. That's already started happening. The newest batch of Geminis and Leeds (and elsewhere) have the usual space on the nearside and extra pram space/tip-up seats on the offside. I think up to 3 or maybe 4 prams can be carried if no wheelchair user is on board. The problem is that it's a while since low floor buses were first introduced now so we have a whole generation of people who have never been accustomed to having to fold a buggy to get on a bus. What used to be a wonderful luxury is now the expected norm. And some people don't react well to being told to differ from the norm and so may refuse to fold down a buggy. A few weeks ago I was onboard a Transdev bus, full standing load, and a woman at a stop was very unhappy at being told she would either have to fold her pram or wait for the next bus. The driver was very polite and to be fair she wasn't shouting or swearing, but was very persistent and it held the bus for a few minutes. Note that the driver wasn't refusing entry, just simply saying that he was happy to wait for her to fold the buggy down. People no longer expect this to happen. So the latest solution is to introduce extra spaces like on the new Geminis. But... isn't that just making the problem even worse and raising expectations even more? At what point does it become too much, when currently the fixed seats on a new double-deck vehicle can already start over halfway back from the front of the bus? |
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Sept 26, 2013 1:05:48 GMT 1
A disabled man has won a legal ruling against a bus company over its wheelchair policy. Doug Paulley from Wetherby, West Yorkshire, took First Bus Group to court after he was told he could not get on a bus because a pushchair user refused to give up the space. A judge at Leeds County Court ruled the "first come first served" policy was unlawful discrimination in breach of the Equality Act 2010. First said it was "disappointed". www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24214346I am "disappointed". The pushchair user should be named and shamed and be the subject of the case, obviously nothing would come of this though. |
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Sept 26, 2013 10:29:20 GMT 1
the pushchair user has as much right to be on the bus as the wheelchair user,even tho there may be space on board for four buggies on new buses there still only allowed 2 buggies or 1 wheelchair and I for one believe first come first served is the best policy,this judge has obviously never been on or prob seen a bus in his life
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Post by pub146g on Sept 26, 2013 17:53:52 GMT 1
The pushchair briggade living on the 50 route wouldn't have been happy today with 30239 & 30790 being on there and on consecutive journeys too.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Sept 27, 2013 17:01:30 GMT 1
I was on the bus the other day with my grandson in his pushchair and a man got on with his wife in a wheelchair, so I moved out of the area so they could get in and just moved onto the other side of the bus with the pram still up in one of the singular seats. So, it begs the question as to why wouldn't someone move for a wheelchair, push chair or no pushchair? Are people so rude and unempathetic to wheelchair users in general? I cannot understand why anyone wouldn't move.
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Post by timelesstable on Feb 17, 2015 8:15:28 GMT 1
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Feb 17, 2015 11:16:26 GMT 1
If the Court of Appeal upholds the latest decision, I hope First request that Mr Pauley repays the £5,500 "compensation" (with interest), and that they also ask for all their court costs etc in fighting him over the past few years to be repaid by him. |
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Post by timelesstable on Feb 17, 2015 15:45:52 GMT 1
It won't be Mr Paulley who pays any cost now because his case is being supported and funded by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC). www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-31499691Mr Paulley has now lodged permission to appeal papers with the Supreme Court. According to the appeal papers the Court of Appeal's decision was "wholly inconsistent with the policy of the Equality Act 2010". Mr Paulley said he was prepared to take the case "as far as it needs to go". |
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Post by timelesstable on Jul 10, 2015 7:28:17 GMT 1
Wetherby man (Mr Paulley) wins Supreme Court bid over bus access row A man has won a legal battle to have his case about wheelchair access on buses heard by the Supreme Court. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-33444455Oh how I just love the UK Justice System. |
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Post by timelesstable on Aug 15, 2015 16:30:48 GMT 1
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Steve Macz403
Forum Member
Waits at the bus stop for his bus, 2 days later bus turns up :D
Posts: 1,678
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Aug 17, 2015 20:05:26 GMT 1
Lol, I think the blogger is living in the past. Hasn't he heard of heritage bus running days  . |
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Post by timelesstable on Jun 15, 2016 7:05:45 GMT 1
Bus wheelchair case in Supreme Court www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36534907The case of a man from Wetherby that will determine whether bus companies should make people with pushchairs and others move from buses' disabled spaces will be heard at the Supreme Court later. It even made the main BBC news with an interview with Giles |
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Post by mk2mcw on Jun 15, 2016 10:32:58 GMT 1
This isnt going to go well if he wins and the rules state drivers have to tell pushchair users to move. People will claim they were never told about the rule they didn't even know about the stike on Monday I saw several people believing the 56 was still every 8 mins some still believe if you are 12 plus you can travel for half price without a pass all it takes is for some chav to be told "please move" and then all hell breaks loose
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Post by mk2mcw on Jun 15, 2016 10:39:51 GMT 1
Maybe First West Yorkshire will have to look at ordering new buses with more bay space and less seats, despite seating priority on some routes being needed more than others. That's already started happening. The newest batch of Geminis and Leeds (and elsewhere) have the usual space on the nearside and extra pram space/tip-up seats on the offside. I think up to 3 or maybe 4 prams can be carried if no wheelchair user is on board. The problem is that it's a while since low floor buses were first introduced now so we have a whole generation of people who have never been accustomed to having to fold a buggy to get on a bus. What used to be a wonderful luxury is now the expected norm. And some people don't react well to being told to differ from the norm and so may refuse to fold down a buggy. A few weeks ago I was onboard a Transdev bus, full standing load, and a woman at a stop was very unhappy at being told she would either have to fold her pram or wait for the next bus. The driver was very polite and to be fair she wasn't shouting or swearing, but was very persistent and it held the bus for a few minutes. Note that the driver wasn't refusing entry, just simply saying that he was happy to wait for her to fold the buggy down. People no longer expect this to happen. So the latest solution is to introduce extra spaces like on the new Geminis. But... isn't that just making the problem even worse and raising expectations even more? At what point does it become too much, when currently the fixed seats on a new double-deck vehicle can already start over halfway back from the front of the bus? the trouble is people now have no recollection of step entrance atlanteans and mcw Metrobuses they are under the impression that low floor buses have always been around they probably believe that the 3 wise men caught an enviro 400 to see baby Jesus in a travelodge |
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Post by Penfold on Jun 15, 2016 14:31:59 GMT 1
That's already started happening. The newest batch of Geminis and Leeds (and elsewhere) have the usual space on the nearside and extra pram space/tip-up seats on the offside. I think up to 3 or maybe 4 prams can be carried if no wheelchair user is on board. The problem is that it's a while since low floor buses were first introduced now so we have a whole generation of people who have never been accustomed to having to fold a buggy to get on a bus. What used to be a wonderful luxury is now the expected norm. And some people don't react well to being told to differ from the norm and so may refuse to fold down a buggy. A few weeks ago I was onboard a Transdev bus, full standing load, and a woman at a stop was very unhappy at being told she would either have to fold her pram or wait for the next bus. The driver was very polite and to be fair she wasn't shouting or swearing, but was very persistent and it held the bus for a few minutes. Note that the driver wasn't refusing entry, just simply saying that he was happy to wait for her to fold the buggy down. People no longer expect this to happen. So the latest solution is to introduce extra spaces like on the new Geminis. But... isn't that just making the problem even worse and raising expectations even more? At what point does it become too much, when currently the fixed seats on a new double-deck vehicle can already start over halfway back from the front of the bus? the trouble is people now have no recollection of step entrance atlanteans and mcw Metrobuses they are under the impression that low floor buses have always been around they probably believe that the 3 wise men caught an enviro 400 to see baby Jesus in a travelodge I would just so love to turn up with a step Olympian (or Dart) with the hand rail between the doors on said route now and see what their reaction would be then. It would always amaze me (few years back) when they saw the steps and tried to 'wheel' the pushchair up the steps and try and negotiate the bar. Imagine their faces when they were told they would have to collapse it. At the which point the woman (who had everything in or on the said Chav carrier but the chav!) told me that this model had been built like it was and wouldnt fold down. A short tirade of abuse followed and it was pointed out they only had an hourly service and 'I' shouldnt have chosen this vehicle for this route. An hour later (on my return) the woman was still waiting hurling abuse to the recipient of a phone call. I also believe the following hour service (a footpath scraper!) had been cancelled due to a problem with the ramp. I would have felt sorry for any disabled user but I have no sympathy for people like this woman ! Penfold |
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jun 15, 2016 15:05:01 GMT 1
Passengers can work in a drivers favour should this become law, if a driver has to resort to moving an un-cooperative pushchair passenger then for obvious reasons (the driver can't physically throw the person off) the police will need to be called. This will obviously cause delay and upset a lot of passengers, cue angry passengers starting on the un-cooperative passenger, they'll soon move!
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Post by 112jct41 on Jun 15, 2016 15:13:06 GMT 1
the trouble is people now have no recollection of step entrance atlanteans and mcw Metrobuses they are under the impression that low floor buses have always been around they probably believe that the 3 wise men caught an enviro 400 to see baby Jesus in a travelodge I would just so love to turn up with a step Olympian (or Dart) with the hand rail between the doors on said route now and see what their reaction would be then. It would always amaze me (few years back) when they saw the steps and tried to 'wheel' the pushchair up the steps and try and negotiate the bar. Imagine their faces when they were told they would have to collapse it. At the which point the woman (who had everything in or on the said Chav carrier but the chav!) told me that this model had been built like it was and wouldnt fold down. A short tirade of abuse followed and it was pointed out they only had an hourly service and 'I' shouldnt have chosen this vehicle for this route. An hour later (on my return) the woman was still waiting hurling abuse to the recipient of a phone call. I also believe the following hour service (a footpath scraper!) had been cancelled due to a problem with the ramp. I would have felt sorry for any disabled user but I have no sympathy for people like this woman ! Penfold true, when 637 was at hecky on a 212 i got with me mam fromm ddh to batley a women got on with a pram lifting on and not folding it and putting it the pushcair holder. |
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Post by whereami on Jun 15, 2016 22:05:43 GMT 1
I would just so love to turn up with a step Olympian (or Dart) with the hand rail between the doors on said route now and see what their reaction would be then. It would always amaze me (few years back) when they saw the steps and tried to 'wheel' the pushchair up the steps and try and negotiate the bar. Imagine their faces when they were told they would have to collapse it. At the which point the woman (who had everything in or on the said Chav carrier but the chav!) told me that this model had been built like it was and wouldnt fold down. A short tirade of abuse followed and it was pointed out they only had an hourly service and 'I' shouldnt have chosen this vehicle for this route. An hour later (on my return) the woman was still waiting hurling abuse to the recipient of a phone call. I also believe the following hour service (a footpath scraper!) had been cancelled due to a problem with the ramp. I would have felt sorry for any disabled user but I have no sympathy for people like this woman ! Penfold true, when 637 was at hecky on a 212 i got with me mam fromm ddh to batley a women got on with a pram lifting on and not folding it and putting it the pushcair holder. 637 and the others from the batch of step entrance Optare Spectra's, didn't have a pole in the middle of the steps, like the Olympians, that, I believe Penfold is referring to. So, 'customers' thought they could take on unfolded prams, on them, if I'd been driving, they would've been made to fold it and store it in the luggage rack. |
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