Tidying up First's fleet numbers

[sconehead85]

When First renumbered its fleet in 2002/3 they adopted a rather chaotic system in which regions were renumbered regardless to type initially, only to change to a type based system half way through.

I think the First scheme needs reorganisation so as to put all buses into a type series. I have a list on floppy discs (yup still have them as well as a USB stick). Unfortunately itll take me till I draw my pension to type it out in full so I shall havre to give you an outline.


1xxxx Articulated buses. These have largely fallen out of favour
thanks to a fair haired chappie in London and he remaining artics should be divided among the 6xxxx series.

2xxxx Coaches and bespoke school buses.

20xxx should be Volvos only, 21xxx Scanias and Dennis Javelins
22xxx for Setras.

28xxx series should be allocated to bespoke school buses, including those not numbered in the 68xxx series. This will give more numbers for larger single decks. These are special use vehicles and have something in common with the coaches in this respect.

DOUBLE DECKERS

30xxx To be cleared
31xxx To be cleared except for 319xx for Dennis Arrows
32xxx Volvo B7 dds only. The Dennis Tridents in the 32700-32999 range to move to the 33xxx series. Once this series is cleared
B7dd s numbered in 30xxx/31xxx and 37xxx to move to the 32xxx range.

33xxx Dennis/Transbus/ADL Tridents /Enviro 400s

34xxx All step entry dds to move here. 34000-34520 will be Volvo Olympians, the remaining Leyland Olympians move to 346xx range, Volvo Citybuses 349xx.

35xxx Hybrid dds?

36xxx Scania and Volvo B9 dds. If a further 40 Scanias arrive they will crash into the 36100 series allocated to Volvo B9s.

37xxx Volvo B9 s only (B7s to move when 32700-32999 are free)

38xxx Cleared except for ADL Enviro500s (38201-25)

39xxx Hybrids except 398xx for AEC Routemasters and 399xx for open toppers and any retained heritage dds.

40xxx/41xxx/42xxx Dennis Dart SLFs only. 43xxx to move to 42xxx series.

44xxx ADL Enviro single decks but 45111-5 should become 44991-5

45xxx Cleared but some VDLs are in this series

46xxx All remaining step Dennis Darts to move to this block

47xxx Cleared (Wrightbus Streetlites ?)

48xxx Volvo B6BLE

49xxx Optare Versas, heritage sds in 499xx range.

50xxx/51xxx cleared

52xxx All non-Optare minis to move to this block.

53xxx All Optare Solos to move here.

60xxx To be cleared

61xxx Cleared except for 614xx/615xx for Volvo B10Ms, 617xx
allocated to N-CKY B10Ms

62xxx 62000-62114 /625xx/626xx allocated to early Volvo B7L
single decks, 629xx allocated to DAFs, all Optare Excels and VDLs.
Other types cleared.

63xxx Vacant currently

64xxx Mercedes-Benz (000-199 Citaros, 2xx step entry Mercs,
649xx MB Citaro artics.

65xxx Scania low floor to fill this series., with artics becoming 65982-99.

66xxx Volvo B10BLEs and B7R single decks (695-999)

67xxx Dennis Lances (2xx/3xx only), Javelin 67501 only, 676xx/677xx ADL Enviro 300s.

68xxx All school buses to move to 28xxx series, 68885-68999 to be allocated to Volvo B7LA articulated buses, the ftrs to become 68900-38.

69xxx Volvo B7 single decks.

Whether First would engage in such an exercise is another matter, as a fair number of those vehicles which would be renumbered are at the older end of the fleet. With hindsight the 10000-19999 series should have been given to the large single deck fleet , and the artics the higher numbers, but thats history for you. With a new livery coming into being, changing number stencils will probably occur anyway. The double decks would have to be done in two phases, starting with the 32xxx Dennis Tridents as these numbers would need to be reallocated to Volvo B7 dds, hence the Tridents would have to be done first.

Anyway this is only an idea.

sconehead85

[kendall17]

Far too complicated. Keep it nice & simple as it is now.

[clifton]

I agree that First re numbered the fleet in a chaotic manor. Which I think is difficult to fix now as:

1, If whoever came up with the current scheme is still working for First they are unlikely to admit they made a hash of it!
2, renumbering the fleet and "reusing" numbers from vehicles currently still in the fleet for different vehicles is very unlikely to happen as it was play havoc with the history (Servicing etc) of the vehicle stored on computers etc.

The numbering will probably continue in the same vein with a more logical approach to the numbering of new vehicles as has happened for some time. Eventually the vehicles numbered in the chaotic manor will be gone and the fleet will all be numbered more logically.

Stagecoach did a good job of their national numbering. Logical and not too complicated.

Lets just hope Arriva don't do it. As I think local numbering gives the different areas a local identity. Also I find it a nightmare keeping track of what I'm looking for when going to different areas where they have odd vehicles from massive batches.

[westyorkshirebus]

There isn't really any point in renumbering again now.

The first phase fleets should have been renumbered into the second phase sequences, but that was years ago, most of it has sorted itself out by now.

[158757]

Hopefully it will soon sort itself but there did seem some weird allocations. For example the Pxxx HPU darts in Huddersfield, some became 408xx, others became 42xxx and I think one ended up in another number series too. Similarly, S140 AGR is AFAIK a super pointer dart, yet at Huddersfield was allocated 40873 rather than 609xx like the others there.

[Father Dougal McGuire]

Currently it all seems ok.........ish! with the DD as 3****'s SD 6**** Midi-Buses 4**** Bendies 1****. Wonder how us enthusiasts would cope with it aftar years of learning the Fleet No's and reg of all the veh's, I can imagine that it would take some learning! Like many of us on here we can probably be given a Fleet Number e.g 66778 we automatically know the Reg,Make,Model and length of the bus as 6's are full size single decks.

[sconehead85]

Part of my aim would be to reunite batches of vehicles such as Dart SLFs, Scanias avd Volvo B10Bs by registration number, but the exercise took me days using a BBP First handbook and it is not something I could attempt on any forum like this, but I will give you a couple of examples


R226-280 SBA becomes 41926-80
R110-179 GFS/GFX become 65110-79

The aim of my exercise is so type identification can be made a bit easier. To put all Solos into the 53xxx series, to put all Dart SLFs into the 40/41/42xxx series and so on.

The Volvo B7 double decks have a huge gap between 32112 and 32199 which could be filled with those in the 30/31xxx range, except for 30846-30965 which I have allocated the numbers 32701-32820 AFTER the Dennis Tridents have been moved into the 33xxx gaps.

sconehead85

[Father Dougal McGuire]

In halifax our Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Urbans have big gaps in them say from 66783 we dont have any until 66789 and 66790, also from the 6674*'s to 6675* and throughout. I think that they should split them evenly e.g. 66708 - 66753 go to hudds and the rest stay at Halifax, I know that they have some at bradford but you get what I mean by splitting them evenly.

Its also to do with the year they were ordered as well because some got B7RLE's earlier than the other depots but others will have been added which might make the batch(s) have slight gaps because of the demand.

[driver6540]

Feb 20, 2012 9:15:21 GMT 1 158757 said:

Hopefully it will soon sort itself but there did seem some weird allocations. For example the Pxxx HPU darts in Huddersfield, some became 408xx, others became 42xxx and I think one ended up in another number series too. Similarly, S140 AGR is AFAIK a super pointer dart, yet at Huddersfield was allocated 40873 rather than 609xx like the others there.

S140 AGR 40873 is a standard length Dart and not an SPD, Hence why it's in the 40xxx series and not 60xxx series. The only Dart's within First UK in the 60xxx series of no's are SPD's, And there aren't that many.

[158757]

Feb 21, 2012 21:43:04 GMT 1 driver6540 said:

Feb 20, 2012 9:15:21 GMT 1 158757 said:

Hopefully it will soon sort itself but there did seem some weird allocations. For example the Pxxx HPU darts in Huddersfield, some became 408xx, others became 42xxx and I think one ended up in another number series too. Similarly, S140 AGR is AFAIK a super pointer dart, yet at Huddersfield was allocated 40873 rather than 609xx like the others there.

S140 AGR 40873 is a standard length Dart and not an SPD, Hence why it's in the 40xxx series and not 60xxx series. The only Dart's within First UK in the 60xxx series of no's are SPD's, And there aren't that many.

Ah right thank you! I always had it down as an SPD but it's a long time since I've been on it. Infact I think the last time I did was on a weekday 380 which must have been quite some years ago now!

[sconehead85]

Since first posting this scheme about a year ago I have decided to make a few changes to the original suggestions

COACHES in 20000-29999 should move to the unused 13000-19999 range, as should BESPOKE SCHOOL BUSES

Volvos ahould become 13xxx, other coach types 14xxx (000-199 Scania, 2xx the rest so far)

School buses in 68xxx range to become 18xxx, with 61135/6 becoming 18135/6

The 20000-29999 series should be handed over to HYBRID DOUBLE DECKERS with 21xxx allocated to Volvos, 22xxx ADL E400H, 23xxx Wrightbus.
Needless to say, the coaches have to be done first.

Other changes to last year mean that all step entry dds would move to the 34xxx series, with Volvo Olympians allocated to 34000-34499 range, the few Leyland Olympians to 346xx, Dennis Arrows and Volvo Citybuses 349xx.

The largest change since last year would be thenumbers allocated to Volvo B7 double decks. Currently numbers 32113-99 are vacant. These could accommodate

31129-48 (32129-48), 30561-78 (32151-68) , 31776-804 ( 32176-99, 32170-4). The big batch 30846-965 should become 31846-965, with Volvo Olympians 31846/77/8 and Dennis Arrows moving to 34xxx series. This would keep Volvo B7s in a series from 31846-32697.

AND FINALLY 66000-66999 can accommodate B10BLE/B10L (66000-299, 66531-654) B7L (66300-528), B7RLE (66700-999 - gaps exist to renumber 66691-9).

Hope you find this of interest, folks.

sconehead85