New 140mph service between Bradford and Euston

[Jack]

Alliance Rail Holdings have announced plans for new 140mph train service from Bradford Interchange to London (Euston?) by Manchester Victoria and Crewe.

They also wish to introduce a new service between Hull and Liverpool via Leeds and Bradford.

Both services would operate every two hours.

When did Deutsche Bahn get involved with Alliance Rail? I know DB are an investor in Wrexham & Shropshire.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8461994.Bradford_at_heart_of_huge_rail_shake_up_bid/?ref=rss

[northrob]

According to Companies House, its registered office is Duxford, Sunderland - the same as Arriva which is of course owned by DB.

An article with Ian Yeowart in the magazine linked below also confirms this. (It's on pages 18-23).

content.yudu.com/A1p927/RailProOct2010/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http

[mollman]

Wonder what the journey times will be? They can plan 140mph all they like but the signalling isn't there to allow it.

[glennh2]

Sceptical

Not convinces they'll get approval as quickly as they think they will but hope I'm wrong

[SF07]

Alliance Rail's brochure, with their proposals, running services as GNWR (Great North Western Railway) and GNER (Great North Eastern Railway), which they hope to start from December 2013 on the West Coast Main Line (the GNWR services) with the East Coast and Pennine routes starting soon after that.

GNWR:
*2-hourly service from Leeds to London Euston via Dewsbury, Huddersfield, Guide Bridge, Stockport, Alderley Edge, Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton and Kings Langley
*2-hourly service from Bradford Interchange to London Euston via Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Rochdale, Manchester Victoria, Eccles, Newton-le-Willows, Winsford, Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton and Kings Langley.
*4 trains per day from Blackpool North to London Euston via Kirkham & Wesham, Preston, Newton-le-Willows, Winsford, Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton and Kings Langley.
*3 trains per day Carlisle to London Euston via Wigton, Maryport, Workington, Whitehaven, Sellafield, Barrow, Ullverston, Carnforth, Lancaster, Preston, Newton-le-Willows, Winsford, Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton and Kings Langley.

GNER:
*2-hourly service from Huddersfield to London Kings Cross via Penistone, Barnsley, Meadowhall, Sheffield, Worksop and Retford
*4-hourly service from Skipton to London Kings Cross via Keighley, Shipley, Leeds and Micklefield
*4-hourly service from Ilkley to London Kings Cross via Guiseley, Leeds and Micklefield
*4 trains per day from Cleethorpes to London Kings Cross via Grimsby Town, Habrough, Scunthorpe, Thorne South and Doncaster
*2-hourly service from Hull to Liverpool Lime Street via Brough, Howden, Selby, Micklefield, Leeds, Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Rochdale, Manchester Victoria, Eccles, Newton-le-Willows and St Helens Junction.

The Leeds/Bradford-London route is similar to the old Grand Union proposed route from Bradford to London via Huddersfield and Stockport, which was rejected after objections from Virgin Trains.

Alliance Rail also make proposals for the facilities offered such as ticket prices the same price on board as in the station (like Grand Central), good luggage storage, good legroom and separate male and female toilets (why?).

www.alliancerail.co.uk/alliance_brochure.pdf

[glennh2]

Thought some of these ideas had already been suggested by Grand Central while Mr Yeowart was still working there, and rejected for capacity reasons

Has anything changed or is it likely to before 2020?

[mollman]

The Carlisle train will take all day just to get to Preston let along Euston!

[Jack]

Oct 28, 2010 22:20:35 GMT 1 SF07 said:

The Leeds/Bradford-London route is similar to the old Grand Union proposed route from Bradford to London via Huddersfield and Stockport, which was rejected after objections from Virgin Trains.

Isn't their an agreement in the current WCML franchise that Virgin have exclusivity on serving London from the stations they serve (except for existing other franchise routes). Hence why Wrexham & Shropshire services can't use Birmingham New Street but regularly have to wait on a platform for a signal!

[Jack]

Food for thought though, as the WCML is due to be re let in the next couple of years and relations between Virgin and the DfT not at their best. If DB were to gain the franchise through themselves or Arriva. I wonder how these open access routes would come into fruition unless they were bolted onto the franchise to expand its scope which would defy the point of open access to increase competition in a sense.

And as Arriva have their fingers in this pie and through Centrebus Holdings. I wonder how much of an influence UK transport plc has in some of these entrepreneurial ventures across the rail and bus industry?

[Burnside]

IIRC< the ban on open access operators serving Virgin stations ends with the franchise and is unlikely to be included in the next WCML franchise.

[B521UWW]

Oct 28, 2010 22:20:35 GMT 1 SF07 said:

GNER:
*2-hourly service from Huddersfield to London Kings Cross via Penistone, Barnsley, Meadowhall, Sheffield, Worksop and Retford

Would be difficult operating Huddersfield - Penistone - Barnsley as there are about 15 miles of single track. Surely the double track would need to be reinstated either side of Berry Brow & Dodworth for there to be enough capacity?

[SF07]

Looks like Alliance Rail may have some competition on getting a Blackpool-London route in place, as Grand Central have proposed a Blackpool-Euston service, calling at Poulton-le-Fylde, Kirkham & Wesham, Preston, Hartford (in Cheshire), Tamworth and Nuneaton (with Lichfield Trent Valley and Milton Keynes Central possible future stops if they get 125mph trains), which they want to start running in 2012. They've even have a proposed timetable, running about every 3-4 hours, with their aim being every 2 hours.

www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/Grand%20Cental%20North%20Western%20Briefing%2018-11-10.pdf

[lysander]

I think the Sheffield-Huddersfield is hourly in each direction so, unless I have got something wrong, the single track is only in use at (say) half hourly intervals. Therefore, I would have thought there was quite a bit of underused capacity already there...with a bit of deft timetabling. Heaven help the schedule though should there be a failure!

[mollman]

Virgin have also jumped on the Blackpool bandwagon. The company that withdrew from the northwest resort when bendy pendys came along. Probable doing a Wrexham / Shrewsbury job trying to force to open access operator out of the market.

[B521UWW]

Nov 18, 2010 17:10:10 GMT 1 lysander said:

I think the Sheffield-Huddersfield is hourly in each direction so, unless I have got something wrong, the single track is only in use at (say) half hourly intervals. Therefore, I would have thought there was quite a bit of underused capacity already there...with a bit of deft timetabling. Heaven help the schedule though should there be a failure!

The lengthy single track sections can cause problems, one train late can make the next few late. Off the top of my head its single track right from Huddersfield to Stocksmoor, Shepley to Penistone and Penistone to Barnsley.