November/December 2010 Changes

[SF07]

Probably won't be many changes in November (with the exception of the service changes on the 1st), so thought merging November and December made more sense.

York Pullman are changing the times of their Sunday services on the 883, 884 and X52 from the 21st November with the X52 extended from Knaresborough to York (despite the wrong route description in the North Yorkshire service changes).

www.northyorkstravel.info/pdf/Service-Changes.pdf

[glennh2]

December timetable changes posted on VOSA today for services 500, 663 ,664 and 665

[fwybuses]

X84 needs to be sorted out. After two months, late journeys, journeys running together all the way to Ilkley. First need to sort this out. The fact that this service is the quickest to otley and serves a place that only has one service SHOULD mean alot to first. But hey its first i don't expect alot only a service to run ON TIME & no togetherness. Its not that frequent to do that yet it happens.

Shove the 965 onto the 33A interworkings. Its a long enough route not to feel the impact. Unless they are aiming to make the X84 a unprofitable service in the distant future.

[SCH117X]

A change to interworking the 965 with the 33A can be done simply by changing the vehicle rosters - it will not need a timetable change as the 33A is timetabled to arrive Otley before the X84 and the leave just after it.

[Craig]

Oct 16, 2010 15:06:41 GMT 1 fwybuses said:

X84 needs to be sorted out. After two months, late journeys, journeys running together all the way to Ilkley. First need to sort this out. The fact that this service is the quickest to otley and serves a place that only has one service SHOULD mean alot to first. But hey its first i don't expect alot only a service to run ON TIME & no togetherness. Its not that frequent to do that yet it happens.

Shove the 965 onto the 33A interworkings. Its a long enough route not to feel the impact. Unless they are aiming to make the X84 a unprofitable service in the distant future.

I understand the X84 seems to be having problems but we don't need to hear it every day. Can this be the end of it now please?

Also I'm not really sure why this is in the December bus changes thread?

[fwybuses]

The last time i mentioned anything on this matter was Sept13th. Nearly a month ago.

And it is in the december changes thread as a proposistion towards the changes that could happen in december. Another thing i propose is the 47 to wigton moor every half hour to replace the 71 to wigton moor/71 to moortown corner extensions.

[kendall17]

Propose? No one cares what you propose, unless you're mentioning it elsewhere. This thread is for the concrete changes. I could propose that the 56 run direct to West Park to my place of work, instead of via town and Headingley. Point taken?

[www.buseireann.ie]

Why can't the 965 work as a stand alone service? I know it means a bit of a layover in Otley but that way when it runs late it will have more than enough time to cover the next journey on time. Let's face it, the 965 will almost be guaranteed to run late at some point owing to traffic around the town centre as well as having the usual bursts of roadwork caused traffic as is currently the case on the Wharfe bridge and traffic diverted from the A59. Also please don't anyone dare suggest that it links onto the 33A as this service is crap enough already. I have had to spend an extra tenner a month to get from Yeadon to Leeds via the train in Guiseley cos the 33A runs late when I want it and can take an age at times to get into Leeds. I think it would be an idea for this and some of the above posts to be put on a seperate thread as well as it's gone a bit off topic.

[SF07]

PB0004410/19 - E STOTT & SONS LTD, COLNE VALE GARAGE, SAVILE STREET, MILNSBRIDGE, HUDDERSFIELD, HD3 4PG
Variation Accepted: Operating between South Crosland and Huddersfield Bus Station given service number 354/355 effective from 13-Dec-2010. To amend Timetable.

[jc]

So this will take York-Easingwold to 5 buses per hour by various routes...

STEPHENSON'S OF EASINGWOLD LTD T/A STEPHENSON'S OF EASINGWOLD LTD, UNIT 16, MOOR LANE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, THOLTHORPE YORK YO61 1SR
PB1010181/77
From: Easingwold Market Place
To: York Exhibition Square
Via: Stillington, Huby, Sutton on the Forrest
Name or No: 41,41A
Service Type: Normal Stopping, Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 11-Dec-2010
Other Details: Monday to Saturday Hourly

[stevieinselby]

Nov 11, 2010 19:04:27 GMT 1 jc said:

So this will take York-Easingwold to 5 buses per hour by various routes...

STEPHENSON'S OF EASINGWOLD LTD T/A STEPHENSON'S OF EASINGWOLD LTD, UNIT 16, MOOR LANE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, THOLTHORPE YORK YO61 1SR
PB1010181/77
From: Easingwold Market Place
To: York Exhibition Square
Via: Stillington, Huby, Sutton on the Forrest
Name or No: 41,41A
Service Type: Normal Stopping, Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 11-Dec-2010
Other Details: Monday to Saturday Hourly

I really can't see the demand for this - it seems like Stephensons are setting both themselves and Reliance up for a fall with all this duplication of routes. If there aren't enough passengers to make both companies profitable, they will probably both fail.

Look back a few years and there were only about 2 buses per hour, serving several different routes, and while I'm sure that the improved services have increased demand, I find it hard to believe they've increased it by that much.

[jc]

I mentioned ages ago that there ought to be one company operating to Easingwold, and someone rightly pointed out that competition was OK provided it was sustainable. Stephensons have clearly got an agenda and have a lot of school contracts and service tenders to fall back on, they haven't invested in their fleet to the extent of Reliance and last I know their fares had crept up to about a 10p difference (single Shipton-York, £1.70 vice £1.80).

Reliance's recent splash in the York Press was interesting about them not cutting services (http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8417752.Reliance_Motor_Services_chiefs_give_bus_service_pledge/), especially since Stephensons seem to be pouring their hard-earned cash into achieving the opposite. What's the history behind all this?

[SCH117X]

Result will probably be both heading for acquisition by someone else - York Pullman, Proctors or Transdev I would imagine

[jc]

Nov 12, 2010 19:26:05 GMT 1 SCH117X said:

Result will probably be both heading for acquisition by someone else - York Pullman, Proctors or Transdev I would imagine

I heard a few weeks ago that in the 1970s Rider York, Pullman and Reliance all ran to Easingwold - as they say, what goes around comes around...!

There's an interesting section in a history of Pullman found here www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/pullman1.htm

The history of York Pullman can be traced back to the early 1920’s when Hartas Foxton started a small garage, taxi and bus business in the city of York. Operating from Piccadilly, just south of the city centre, he commenced a service north from York to Easingwold, trading as the ‘Red Bus Service’. Around the same time another garage proprietor, Norman Pearce, commenced a service between York and Stamford Bridge, using the name ‘Pullman’.

In June 1926, Hartas Foxton acquired the business of Hutchinson and Greenland, who were also operating to Easingwold, but via Tollerton and in October 1926 he joined with Norman Pearce, who was in need of assistance on his route, to form the York Pullman Bus Company Limited, taking a 50% share. Foxton was now operating two bus companies, but in 1929 Norman Pearce sold his half share to Foxton and on the 1st January 1930 the ‘Red Bus Service’ was amalgamated with York Pullman and the business unified.

[stevieinselby]

Reliance have been on a slow-but-steady expansion, gradually building up the 40 to hourly, then the 30 also to hourly, then the extension to Thirsk. While I think they are a little bit more expensive, their fleet is better (entirely Volvo, IIRC) and I get the impression that the overall quality of service is better too.

Stephensons have always been a bit more flighty, but the recent expansion into Ryedale and then this massive expansion in the York—Easingwold corridor, going head-to-head with a competitor and without a real USP other than maybe slightly cheaper fares smacks of over-stretching themselves.

I don't see Reliance selling out, although I can imagine Stephensons selling up the bus side of the business and concentrating on the coaching. I can't see Pullman, Transdev or Proctors wanting to go head-to-head with Reliance on their home turf though.

Don't forget that the Pullman name has been applied to at least three completely different and unrelated companies in the York area - the Pullman that ran to Easingwold has no shred of a link to the Pullman that's operating today!

[jc]

I think what could also shake this up is whats come to light regarding concessionary fares in the past few days - a potential 40% reduction according to routeone.

Where/when did the 3rd Pullman company operate then? I thought it was just the 1926 company running through to the 90s followed by K&J Logistics' reincarnation.

With regards to Stephensons, if Reliance have one big regret I would imagine it was losing the Easingwold-Helmsley route as this seems to have been the springboard for Stephensons' competition in an effort to fill their existing journeys south of Easingwold. As far as I know all their other routes are tendered, so if someone bought their bus business and dropped the Easingwold-York routes they would stand to lose everything at the next retendering.

[stevieinselby]

Nov 13, 2010 2:56:47 GMT 1 jc said:

Where/when did the 3rd Pullman company operate then? I thought it was just the 1926 company running through to the 90s followed by K&J Logistics' reincarnation.

As far as I'm aware, the Pullman Easylink services that were operating in the late 90s/early 2000s were not related to the York Pullman Bus Co. These were all council tendered services running minor radial and orbital suburban routes, including a lot of evening and Sunday services that Rider/First didn't provide commercially, using distinctive purple and orange Dennis Dart LF/SLFs.

[northrob]

From Buses magazine Fleet In Focus (September 2010)

"The original York Pullman had been founded in 1926 and in 1985 became Renyard Pullman after Renyard Coaches purchased it. Rider Group bought the bus operation in July 1990, after Renyard sold the coach fleet and York Pullman name to Kingston upon Hull City Transport in February 1990. KHCT sold it to Durham Travel Services in 1993 and re-entered the local bus market on tendered services but sold it to First in 2000 when the York Pullman name was allowed to lapse"

[jc]

Service changes updated today - Stephensons have also recast their Ryedale network!:

www.northyorkstravel.info/pdf/Service-Changes.pdf

There are some changes to Coastliner copied below.

The 07.30 hours from Copmanthorpe to FERA will commence at Tadcaster
Garnet Lane at 07.11 hours Monday to Friday. The 16.55 hours from Leeds to
Thorton Le Dale will serve Tadcaster Garnet Lane and Copmanthorpe Hallfield
Lane. From Copmanthorpe it will run 10 mins later, Monday to Friday. The
17.30 hours from Leeds to Scarborough will serve Tadcaster Garnet Lane and
Copmanthorpe Hallfield Lane. From Copmanthorpe it will run 10 mins later,
Monday to Friday.The 17.55 hours from FERA Monday to Friday is now
extended to Tadcaster Bus Station and Tadcaster Garnet Lane. The 19.20 hours
from Thorton Le Dale to Malton is retimed 10 mins later to 19.30 hours, Monday
to Friday. The 20.13 hours from Scarborough to Leeds is retimes 10 mins later
to 20.23 hours, Monday to Friday. The 22.55 hours from Leeds is retimed 5 mins
later to 23.00 hours, Monday to Saturday.

[SF07]

New Changing Times booklet is up on the Metro website.

Changes are:
*28 (First) - The 7.14pm weekday journey from Adel and the 8.14pm and 11.14pm Monday-Saturday journeys from Adel are extended to Clarence Dock - started from Sunday (21/11/2010)
*354/355 (Stotts) - Weekday timetable now applied to Saturdays with minor timetable changes. The 7.35am 355 journey retimed to run at 7.45am - from 13th December 2010
*370/371 (First) - The 8.38pm 370 journey Mon-Sat from Rawthorpe is extended to Huddersfield Royal Infirmary with the 9.28pm 371 journey from Lindley now starting from HRI at 9.23pm - started from Sunday (21/11/2010)
*500/663 (Keighley & District) - The 10.05am Sunday 500 journey from Keighley and 11.05am Sunday 500 journey from Hebden Bridge are withdrawn and replaced by the 663 between Keighley and Oxenhope at the same times. - From 12th December 2010
*570/571 (First) - The 7.20am 570 weekday journey from Brighouse to Bradford is re-numbered as a 571 and extended to start from Halifax at 6.55am - From 28th November 2010
*T6/T8 (Tyrer Bus) - Services extended from Scott Street to Waggon & Horses on Rochdale Road in Walsden - From 27th November 2010
*X79 (HJC) - Withdrawn from 28th December 2010

www.wymetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/C5306F80-9775-4B54-BF91-D8E4CA4A29B7/0/CT56_infoleaflet.pdf