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Post by the110 on Oct 12, 2009 16:29:13 GMT 1
I over heard two members of managment today talking about "possible" big cuts in January as Metro look to lash the amount they pay for Metro passes and OAP passes. I know In North Yorkshire Selby depot was paid around £120,000 short for its OAP bill because the council couldn't "afford" it. Someone really needs to look into this because its going to effect services IF it happens.  |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 12, 2009 17:37:44 GMT 1
You need to go to Blackburn where Lancashire United have cut services and replaced many low floor buses with old Leyland Olympians due to the shortfall in OAP payments
Blackpool Transport are also threatening job losses and service reductions
So far we this side of the pennines have come off relatively unaffected
Sadly, nobody is going to do anything about it especially this close to a general election
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Post by rwilkes on Oct 12, 2009 21:55:50 GMT 1
People need to write to their local papers and MPs!
Of course politicans will go on abt greedy bus companies but its the politicians who are wrecking the services they claim to be in favour of.
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Post by bernardf on Oct 13, 2009 20:30:12 GMT 1
I have a twirly pass. When I first got it, I had to pay 35p to use it. It amazes me that nobody has come up with the idea of paying 50p or even £1 when the lowest fare seems to be £1.20. I wouldn't object. I really feel for those on, say, east coast routes who can't get the bus for twirlies. But I don't know how much bus companies are paid for each twirly carried.
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77syk7
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Post by 77syk7 on Oct 13, 2009 20:47:49 GMT 1
A 'twirly' being? - please enlighten me on this type of passenger
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Post by B521UWW on Oct 13, 2009 21:13:58 GMT 1
It's a nickname given by drivers when OAP's huddle up at 0920 - 0929 to see if the drivers clock is running fast - only to be told "sorry your too early" ie twirly!
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Post by northerner on Oct 15, 2009 19:16:12 GMT 1
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Post by timelesstable on Oct 15, 2009 20:25:30 GMT 1
I can't see that happening do you really think H&D could give up almost £2 Million (£330k being 17%) in incremental revenue just in North Yorkshire for 56 revenue generating buses. I wouldn't, would be interesting to see how much First and Arriva generate from Metro for West Yorkshire operations |
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Post by northerner on Oct 15, 2009 20:37:45 GMT 1
Look at whats been going on in Lancashire though, Lancashire United are around £1m down on revenue cos of the council not giving the bus companies the full amount of what they are entitled to.
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Post by timelesstable on Oct 15, 2009 21:00:24 GMT 1
Look at whats been going on in Lancashire though, Lancashire United are around £1m down on revenue cos of the council not giving the bus companies the full amount of what they are entitled to. I thought these funding problems went back to the introduction of the National OAP Scheme when the same formula was being applied Nationally irrespective of the demographic distribution of the Elderly and their ability to travel |
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Post by northerner on Oct 15, 2009 21:21:25 GMT 1
You could be right, I'm confused by it all. It does seem wrong though that fare payers are losing out through fewer services and higher fares
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 15, 2009 22:07:44 GMT 1
Don't forget that the OAPs are also losing out in many cases when the buses are cut
Nothing will happen as 'Harrogate axes bus services' gets a headline in a local paper, nobody else cares
'Brown/Cameron to axe OAPs free buses' gets on the front of national media and he subsequently loses votes in the election
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Post by northerner on Oct 15, 2009 22:16:59 GMT 1
'Brown/Cameron to axe OAPs free buses' gets on the front of national media and he subsequently loses votes in the election I suppose thats what it comes down to. I wouldn't want to see cuts in West Yorkshire on the scale of Blackburn though especially considering many areas have already had cutbacks |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Oct 16, 2009 8:55:00 GMT 1
I can't see that happening do you really think H&D could give up almost £2 Million (£330k being 17%) in incremental revenue just in North Yorkshire for 56 revenue generating buses. I wouldn't, would be interesting to see how much First and Arriva generate from Metro for West Yorkshire operations They wouldn't be giving up all the money if the scheme was scrapped as passengers would still travel and pay fare. Under the previous half-fare schemes operators would received 50% of adult fare from the passenger and another 20-30% from the local council, under the current half-baked free fares scheme many areas are paying 30-40% of adult fare for each journey, operator income has fallen by around 50% per passenger. This has meant that operators in many areas have lost money on the introduction of free fares, it all depends on how good the payments are (Metro probably pay far better than North Yorkshire or Lancashire could ever afford to). The problems with the National free fares scheme are multiple: 1. Scheme starts at 60 but retirement age is 65 (or is about to be) 2. Payments to council for free fares take no account of bus networks, OAP pass use or population profiles. Councils with no bus services do receive free fare money. 3. The payments to councils are not ringfenced and there is no requirement to use this money for transport, let alone free-fares. An number of councils around the country are reportedly making a profit on free fares income whilst many others are losing shed-loads. 4. There is no standardised payment or calculation which means a service can receive different amounts for passengers boarding at consequtive stops. 5. There is little account made of extra costs of carrying, rates are worked out with assumptions of 50+% rise in OAP passenger numbers despite few operators experiencing this and as many not having the capacity to carry it if they did and getting payments for adding extra resource is very difficult. 6. OAPs have always been the main customers for off-peak services, in most cases they made up well over a third of all passengers for bus companies, that has now increased on free fares to in many cases over a half of all passengers. And remember a bus company in many areas receives less money for carrying an OAP than we receive for the carriage of a 6 year old. Work that out! The basic problem is that the Westminster government introduced a policy but expects local councils and private bus companies to pay for it, and then dodges the issue when they complain. Ever noticed that whenever a council or operator complains about losing money the government always quotes the national figure and how much extra they paid they never provide any indication of what funding they provided to the council in difficulty, because they know it will prove their point. |
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Post by rwilkes on Oct 16, 2009 19:39:41 GMT 1
re: (Metro probably pay far better than North Yorkshire or Lancashire could ever afford to).
N Yorks has been a good payer but is now reviewing downwards
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Oct 20, 2009 10:29:51 GMT 1
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Post by busman3 on Oct 20, 2009 15:27:28 GMT 1
Part of the problem in some areas where the operator doesnt get a flat rate . Some ops are always doing the maximum claim for each fare . Think in wy like sy they get a flat rate
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Post by rwilkes on Oct 20, 2009 22:31:28 GMT 1
I think Metro pay 70p flat rate which is reasonable as the extra patronage makes up for lower fares, but it will be bad if this gets cut. N Yorks pay something like half fare, but districts are looking at cuts.
A few ops are better off where a rural county like Shrops pays an average fare for county so small town services get more for OAPs than full fare!
But many LAs are paying 30p in the £ so the services have to be cut!
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