Wakefield Bus Service improvements?

[LukePA]

www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/people/wakefield-district-bus-users-can-expect-good-news-over-new-routes-and-services-says-transport-chief-4333740


Hopefully some good news for Wakefield?

[Deleted]

I live in Altofts, and we had 4 buses an hour to Wakefield in 2022 and 4 to Castleford, Now we are reduced down to 1 with no evening service and every 2 hours on Sundays. I want things to get better, but I have no hope in doing so, I'm sure we have heard the same from councillors before about this, when I contacted the councillors, Arriva, Metro, ect about my routes that got cut, they said sorry, we can't do anything about it, WYCA said the same thing. They was all blaming each other, and pass the parcel, so trying to divert the blame from each other. 

I'll listen, but I doubt these improvements will happen.

Bus companies, Councillors, WYCA, Metro, Politicans, they're all the same to me and all this smacks of a publicity stunt to me, rather than actual improvement news. I hope to be proved wrong, I really really do. Where I live is a lot of elderly folk as well.

I want to know where the money is coming from as well for all these allged improvements, as the money to fund these have to come from somewhere

Sorry to be negative folks, I lived in an area, where I've seen so many many many cuts, Its hard to be positive, until any action or announcements have taken place!

[Username]

Sept 14, 2023 17:20:02 GMT 1 LukePA said:

www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/people/wakefield-district-bus-users-can-expect-good-news-over-new-routes-and-services-says-transport-chief-4333740


Hopefully some good news for Wakefield?

Would hope so! I really do hope METRO hold more service reviews like they did back between 2012 and 2015 across West Yorkshire to allow more positive changes to Wakefield and its surrounding area.

[mattb7tl]

I think the changes will be made by OptiBus, and most likely fully commercial
They did it down in Milton Keynes. It actually resulted in tones of weirdly good changes. Although the main focus needs to be the 110. Anything less than 6 BPA is unacceptable 

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2023 18:01:46 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

I think the changes will be made by OptiBus, and most likely fully commercial
They did it down in Milton Keynes. It actually resulted in tones of weirdly good changes. Although the main focus needs to be the 110. Anything less than 6 BPA is unacceptable 

I'd argue the 189 needs to go back to the original frequency its had of 10 minutes, a town of the size of Normanton really should have more buses per hour than it is now. Also with the last remaning bank in Normanton to close next year, meaning all the old folks will need to go to Castleford or Wakefield, or even Pontefract for their banking needs.

[dlspotter]

I agree 110 & 189 need that 6bph frequency, same with 126/7 corridor (although I believe some just to Ossett, I remember in 2021 some short runs to Ossett were operated to help that part have a better frequency)
Altofts has really been decimated with bus service, I know Ross downsizing didn't help (given they took on the 158). Now takes 40 minutes to get from Lower Altofts to Wakefield whereas the 125/146 allowed the trip to be done in 20. And while Station Rd still has 2 of its 3 services, these buses tend to run quite close together in each direction, meaning if you are going into Normanton and you just missed the bus sometimes you may only wait up to 5/10 minutes but then after that it's a 50-55min wait.
Personally as someone who regularly takes buses in this area I felt quite annoyed at Arriva taking the 21/22 bus having reduced 189 frequency and contributing to the decimation of Altofts service. Recently it seems like they are trying to strengthen their East Leeds network instead of recover its pre-pandemic level of service, with Kippax and Garforth now having a better Arriva frequency to Leeds than they had before 2020, with Garforth now having 8 Arriva buses per hour to Leeds (only 5 Arriva buses per hour pre pandemic), including their new 165 service that practically carries fresh air outside of peak times.
Hoping that the new changes will help out a lot. Even if not Arriva operated I'm sure any better bus service will be welcomed.

[Username]

Sept 14, 2023 20:15:40 GMT 1 dlspotter said:

I agree 110 & 189 need that 6bph frequency, same with 126/7 corridor (although I believe some just to Ossett, I remember in 2021 some short runs to Ossett were operated to help that part have a better frequency)
Altofts has really been decimated with bus service, I know Ross downsizing didn't help (given they took on the 158). Now takes 40 minutes to get from Lower Altofts to Wakefield whereas the 125/146 allowed the trip to be done in 20. And while Station Rd still has 2 of its 3 services, these buses tend to run quite close together in each direction, meaning if you are going into Normanton and you just missed the bus sometimes you may only wait up to 5/10 minutes but then after that it's a 50-55min wait.
Personally as someone who regularly takes buses in this area I felt quite annoyed at Arriva taking the 21/22 bus having reduced 189 frequency and contributing to the decimation of Altofts service. Recently it seems like they are trying to strengthen their East Leeds network instead of recover its pre-pandemic level of service, with Kippax and Garforth now having a better Arriva frequency to Leeds than they had before 2020, with Garforth now having 8 Arriva buses per hour to Leeds (only 5 Arriva buses per hour pre pandemic), including their new 165 service that practically carries fresh air outside of peak times.
Hoping that the new changes will help out a lot. Even if not Arriva operated I'm sure any better bus service will be welcomed.

How often were the old 187/8 before they got replaced by the 158 and 186?

[dlspotter]

Sept 14, 2023 20:21:25 GMT 1 Username said:

Sept 14, 2023 20:15:40 GMT 1 dlspotter said:

I agree 110 & 189 need that 6bph frequency, same with 126/7 corridor (although I believe some just to Ossett, I remember in 2021 some short runs to Ossett were operated to help that part have a better frequency)
Altofts has really been decimated with bus service, I know Ross downsizing didn't help (given they took on the 158). Now takes 40 minutes to get from Lower Altofts to Wakefield whereas the 125/146 allowed the trip to be done in 20. And while Station Rd still has 2 of its 3 services, these buses tend to run quite close together in each direction, meaning if you are going into Normanton and you just missed the bus sometimes you may only wait up to 5/10 minutes but then after that it's a 50-55min wait.
Personally as someone who regularly takes buses in this area I felt quite annoyed at Arriva taking the 21/22 bus having reduced 189 frequency and contributing to the decimation of Altofts service. Recently it seems like they are trying to strengthen their East Leeds network instead of recover its pre-pandemic level of service, with Kippax and Garforth now having a better Arriva frequency to Leeds than they had before 2020, with Garforth now having 8 Arriva buses per hour to Leeds (only 5 Arriva buses per hour pre pandemic), including their new 165 service that practically carries fresh air outside of peak times.
Hoping that the new changes will help out a lot. Even if not Arriva operated I'm sure any better bus service will be welcomed.

How often were the old 187/8 before they got replaced by the 158 and 186?

187/188 operated both hourly Mon-Sat daytimes 6am (8am Saturdays) to 7pm forming a combined every 30 minute frequency along vast swathes of the route between Castleford and Wakefield
188 operated hourly (and hourly on Sundays too) from around 5:30 to 22:30, 187 hourly from 6(/8) to 7 (however after around 6pm all services terminated at Castleford anyway from Wakefield)

[Mr D Roebuck-Johnson]

Won’t be Arriva’s problem soon !

[Tom]

Sept 14, 2023 20:55:41 GMT 1 Mr D Roebuck-Johnson said:

Won’t be Arriva’s problem soon !

Is that just pure speculation or do you have some insider knowledge?

[westyorkshirebus]

I imagine “I’ve heard that Arriva are selling up” will be the answer, and that discussion will start up again

I have to say a councillor making a brief comment in the local press seems to have been blown up out of all proportion here. He probably just means that the mayor will make another vague promise about buses being put in public control at some stage in the future, rather than anything specific happening short term.

[mattb7tl]

Sept 14, 2023 22:48:34 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

I imagine “I’ve heard that Arriva are selling up” will be the answer, and that discussion will start up again

I have to say a councillor making a brief comment in the local press seems to have been blown up out of all proportion here. He probably just means that the mayor will make another vague promise about buses being put in public control at some stage in the future, rather than anything specific happening short term.

Article mentions the improvements should arrive in a few weeks or months
Arriva doesn't seem to have many enthusiast pages and social media attention but quite a lot of routes outside of our region have had commercial frequency increases
Not to mention what seems to be their first trial of OptiBus, here's a tweet where it explains the changes it made towards services in High Wycombe. They are quite substantial

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2023 17:25:50 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

I live in Altofts, and we had 4 buses an hour to Wakefield in 2022 and 4 to Castleford, Now we are reduced down to 1 with no evening service and every 2 hours on Sundays. I want things to get better, but I have no hope in doing so, I'm sure we have heard the same from councillors before about this, when I contacted the councillors, Arriva, Metro, ect about my routes that got cut, they said sorry, we can't do anything about it, WYCA said the same thing. They was all blaming each other, and pass the parcel, so trying to divert the blame from each other. 

I'll listen, but I doubt these improvements will happen.

Bus companies, Councillors, WYCA, Metro, Politicans, they're all the same to me and all this smacks of a publicity stunt to me, rather than actual improvement news. I hope to be proved wrong, I really really do. Where I live is a lot of elderly folk as well.

I want to know where the money is coming from as well for all these allged improvements, as the money to fund these have to come from somewhere

Sorry to be negative folks, I lived in an area, where I've seen so many many many cuts, Its hard to be positive, until any action or announcements have taken place!

BIB - Wakefield is the only part of West Yorkshire not to yet gain something from the BSIP,so i'd assuming that's where the money is coming from

[Deleted]

How much does OAP pass useage affects routes in getting cut or routes being reduced? So if a route is full of OAP passes only, would this be one of the routes to get cut?

[stephen01]

Sept 15, 2023 8:50:34 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

How much does OAP pass useage affects routes in getting cut or routes being reduced? So if a route is full of OAP passes only, would this be one of the routes to get cut?

from my understanding is that an operator on West Yorkshire only gets back around 30p per ENCTS pass and it's around 70p per Mcard. Perhaps wyguy66 may be able to shed a bit more light as the amoumt may have gotten better or worse with the Government bus scheme and the Mayoral one for WY.

[steviewevie]

There have been some modest improvements since 3rd September with revised service 103/111 serving City Fields (previously unserved for the most part) and the Ferry Lane area of Stanley every 30 minutes in each direction making it 4 per hour in effect to Wakefield Bus station and includes a reduced evening service. I understand this is developer funded via the council. Lets hope it gets used.

[MetrolineGA1511]

Sept 14, 2023 20:55:41 GMT 1 Mr D Roebuck-Johnson said:

Won’t be Arriva’s problem soon !

Even if the sale from DB to I Squared materialises, it will still be Arriva's problem. It's just that Arriva will have changed hands.

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2023 9:22:46 GMT 1 stephen01 said:

Sept 15, 2023 8:50:34 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

How much does OAP pass useage affects routes in getting cut or routes being reduced? So if a route is full of OAP passes only, would this be one of the routes to get cut?

from my understanding is that an operator on West Yorkshire only gets back around 30p per ENCTS pass and it's around 70p per Mcard. Perhaps wyguy66 may be able to shed a bit more light as the amoumt may have gotten better or worse with the Government bus scheme and the Mayoral one for WY.

I certainly think the ENTCS scheme needs to be looked at inmore detail by the government,and local authorities and perhaps start putting more restrictions on them, or give bus operators more money than 30p per ENCTS pass.

[stevieinselby]

Sept 17, 2023 10:19:53 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

Sept 15, 2023 9:22:46 GMT 1 stephen01 said:

from my understanding is that an operator on West Yorkshire only gets back around 30p per ENCTS pass and it's around 70p per Mcard. Perhaps wyguy66 may be able to shed a bit more light as the amoumt may have gotten better or worse with the Government bus scheme and the Mayoral one for WY.

I certainly think the ENTCS scheme needs to be looked at inmore detail by the government,and local authorities and perhaps start putting more restrictions on them, or give bus operators more money than 30p per ENCTS pass.

I'm not keen on the idea of more restrictions – whether that's time-based, location-based (eg you could only use your pass within your a certain area) or distance-based (eg you could not use your pass on routes over a certain distance). A better, and easier, solution is simply to increase the amount that operators get per passenger. Obviously this will require additional funding from central government, it isn't something that a council could unilaterally decide to do given how stretched their budgets are at the moment.

[leedsbusman]

Sept 17, 2023 10:19:53 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

Sept 15, 2023 9:22:46 GMT 1 stephen01 said:

from my understanding is that an operator on West Yorkshire only gets back around 30p per ENCTS pass and it's around 70p per Mcard. Perhaps wyguy66 may be able to shed a bit more light as the amoumt may have gotten better or worse with the Government bus scheme and the Mayoral one for WY.

I certainly think the ENTCS scheme needs to be looked at inmore detail by the government,and local authorities and perhaps start putting more restrictions on them, or give bus operators more money than 30p per ENCTS pass.

That does assume that his ‘understanding’ is correct, which I doubt!

[dwarfer1979]

Sept 17, 2023 12:12:25 GMT 1 leedsbusman said:

Sept 17, 2023 10:19:53 GMT 1 @scrooge said:

I certainly think the ENTCS scheme needs to be looked at inmore detail by the government,and local authorities and perhaps start putting more restrictions on them, or give bus operators more money than 30p per ENCTS pass.

That does assume that his ‘understanding’ is correct, which I doubt!

More likely to be 30% of standard average adult fare (not the £2 fare but the normal shadow fare that the system is still recording in the back office), which these days is fairly common across many authorities, rather than a flat 30p per passenger which could easily be challenged in the review system as not being fair. This is still about half what the basic accepted economics says operators should be receiving to be 'no better, no worse off' and meaning that concessionary passengers become an incidental matter and not an income generating passenger whos needs should be focussed on.

[deerfold]

And of course the amount varies wildly between different local authorities.

[guyarab]

There has been for a good while, some non-official discussion about ENCTS holders paying a nominal annual charge to retain their passes. I believe this occurs in some other countries, but could it work here?

[squeaky]

if it were only 'nominal', then collecting the money would not be worth the hassle

[Mr D Roebuck-Johnson]

Sept 14, 2023 22:48:34 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

I imagine “I’ve heard that Arriva are selling up” will be the answer, and that discussion will start up again

I have to say a councillor making a brief comment in the local press seems to have been blown up out of all proportion here. He probably just means that the mayor will make another vague promise about buses being put in public control at some stage in the future, rather than anything specific happening short term.

Do you feel a bit of a fool today ? 🧐