mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 11, 2024 12:54:24 GMT 1
A lot of companies up and down the country are doing great things. These companies are growing their networks, they are putting in effort and it is paying off, and usually this is done without bus priority. First on the other hand fails to do it even with the luxury of bus priority. It's mind baffling that they can't inspire growth on routes where they are handed all the tools for success and come out empty handed and with cuts. So while the rest of the country is improving their routes with less tools available, usually without BSIP funding. We're sat here with nothing to show for ourselves. Somebody tell me how that isn't bad management?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 13:01:13 GMT 1
How do you know all of these companies are doing with this without funding? I presume you've been to every company and asked? I bet they aren't, or they use PR to cover the fact and cover it up, im looking at you Hornby! Why should any company try and take commercial risks on routes that won't justify the resources or investment? Tracey Brabin does not care about the transport system in West Yorkshire, she only appears at things when there is a press opportunity, nothing else. She is as bad as the companies.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 11, 2024 13:07:03 GMT 1
How do you know all of these companies are doing with this without funding? I presume you've been to every company and asked? I bet they aren't, or they use PR to cover the fact and cover it up, im looking at you Hornby! Why should any company try and take commercial risks on routes that won't justify the resources or investment? Or are you always listening to Politician's BS like Tracey Brabin? Tracey Brabin does not care about the transport system in West Yorkshire, she only appears at things when there is a press opportunity, nothing else. She is as bad as the companies. I would of thought you would know how to spell her name if you knew so much about her and her policies? (It's Tracy) A lot of these companies also tell the public if it is their investment or not as shown below. www.morebus.co.uk/new-buses-order
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 11, 2024 13:45:48 GMT 1
I bet they aren't, or they use PR to cover the fact and cover it up, im looking at you Hornby! Has this thread turned into a model railway discussion as Alex of that surname has not been with Transdev Blazefield for obver a year and is with McGills in Scotland.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 14:12:59 GMT 1
I bet they aren't, or they use PR to cover the fact and cover it up, im looking at you Hornby! Has this thread turned into a model railway discussion as Alex of that surname has not been with Transdev Blazefield for obver a year and is with McGills in Scotland. Seeing as someone had to restart a 2 year thread just to complain about their vendetta against a company , I see no issue of bringing Alex Hornby up either.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 11, 2024 17:27:40 GMT 1
Has this thread turned into a model railway discussion as Alex of that surname has not been with Transdev Blazefield for obver a year and is with McGills in Scotland. Seeing as someone had to restart a 2 year thread just to complain about their vendetta against a company , I see no issue of bringing Alex Hornby up either. I don't have a vendetta against First at all. I even mentioned before I would like First bus to have the 587 back as the coordinated timetable was the best. I've just pointed them out for unnecessary cuts. Apologies if you're related to the CEO of First bus and I offended you!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 17:30:11 GMT 1
Seeing as someone had to restart a 2 year thread just to complain about their vendetta against a company , I see no issue of bringing Alex Hornby up either. I don't have a vendetta against First at all. I even mentioned before I would like First bus to have the 587 back as the coordinated timetable was the best. I've just pointed them out for unnecessary cuts. Apologies if you're related to the CEO of First bus and I offended you! No different than most of the forum being related to the CEO of Transdev or related to Tracy Brabin!
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 11, 2024 17:33:31 GMT 1
I don't have a vendetta against First at all. I even mentioned before I would like First bus to have the 587 back as the coordinated timetable was the best. I've just pointed them out for unnecessary cuts. Apologies if you're related to the CEO of First bus and I offended you! No different than most of the forum being related to the CEO of Transdev or related to Tracy Brabin! That wasn't my point though, my point is I don't have a vandetta towards First. If I had a hatred for first I would literally be daily listing cancellations, faults with buses like a certain someone on this chat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 17:38:15 GMT 1
Why did you bring a totally unrelated post about Somerset up? Why do people believe automatically the bus companies are wrong and not local councillors or authorities or Metro? How do we know these Somerset Bus Partnership aren't trying to score political points over the bus companies?
There's at least one person here complaining that they First can't run a business because they cut a route in an area or disagree with how they run, or how about people moaning about Halifax not getting new buses. Halifax don't deserve new buses and never will, Halifax does not justify the investment, so yeah, First are right to give Halifax castoffs.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 11, 2024 17:42:56 GMT 1
Why did you bring a totally unrelated post about Somerset up? Why do people believe automatically the bus companies are wrong and not local councillors or authorities or Metro? How do we know these Somerset Bus Partnership aren't trying to score political points over the bus companies? There's at least one person here complaining that they First can't run a business because they cut a route in an area or disagree with how they run, or how about people moaning about Halifax not getting new buses. Halifax don't deserve new buses and never will, Halifax does not justify the investment, so yeah, First are right to give Halifax castoffs. It would be important to read this point as I have already explained that it is related in some way, same business and on the topic of cutting services like this thread is. Not sure what your point about the new buses is, I don't think anyone here has mentioned that. Think it's more of a tantrum.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 11, 2024 17:45:46 GMT 1
Anything at not the 2nd company is that anything that costs even a penny more has to go to director level to be authorised. When I worked in schedules it was more focused on more connectivity, simplicity and real life reliability (look at the pre-covid Calder Valley 590/2/589 timetable for a good example of what I mean). That's when it was ex-drivers but now we are having people out of university who have no clue - it really is an industry that needs to be run 'old school' to run properly. The focus should be on getting that bus out and having it run reliably rather than to what a computer algorithm thinks is best.
From what I have heard, the schedules department is "goosed" for a politer word from the inside... Like there is no desire to make any decent timetables and driver duties anymore. It really is a case of like it or lump it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 17:47:00 GMT 1
Why did you bring a totally unrelated post about Somerset up? Why do people believe automatically the bus companies are wrong and not local councillors or authorities or Metro? How do we know these Somerset Bus Partnership aren't trying to score political points over the bus companies? There's at least one person here complaining that they First can't run a business because they cut a route in an area or disagree with how they run, or how about people moaning about Halifax not getting new buses. Halifax don't deserve new buses and never will, Halifax does not justify the investment, so yeah, First are right to give Halifax castoffs. It would be important to read this point as I have already explained that it is related in some way, same business and on the topic of cutting services like this thread is. Not sure what your point about the new buses is, I don't think anyone here has mentioned that. Think it's more of a tantrum. First dont cut services because they feel like it, they cut services for logical reasons, all bus companies do. First don't go and say oh lets pick on some people in a village between Halifax and Huddersfield. If you lot think you can do better, why don't you apply with a job for them, seeing as some of you can do an amazing job. Obviously a logical reason why your services got cut. Somerset has nothing to do with Yorkshire. Just seems a bit of an excuse for a rant on First.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 11, 2024 17:49:03 GMT 1
It would be important to read this point as I have already explained that it is related in some way, same business and on the topic of cutting services like this thread is. Not sure what your point about the new buses is, I don't think anyone here has mentioned that. Think it's more of a tantrum. First dont cut services because they feel like it, they cut services for logical reasons, all bus companies do. First don't go and say oh lets pick on some people in a village between Halifax and Huddersfield. If you lot think you can do better, why don't you apply with a job for them, seeing as some of you can do an amazing job. Obviously a logical reason why your services got cut. Somerset has nothing to do with Yorkshire. Just seems a bit of an excuse for a rant on First. Do I need to explain myself a 3rd time?
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 11, 2024 18:03:36 GMT 1
Seeing as someone had to restart a 2 year thread just to complain about their vendetta against a company , I see no issue of bringing Alex Hornby up either. I don't have a vendetta against First at all. I even mentioned before I would like First bus to have the 587 back as the coordinated timetable was the best. I've just pointed them out for unnecessary cuts. Apologies if you're related to the CEO of First bus and I offended you! But as I explained, the 586 does coordinate for the majority of the day with the 587 as best it can. The service simply isn't profitable enough for an hourly frequency (it was already in the top 5 marginal routes during my time working for FWY) so the remaining options are either larger gaps to fit around 587 or finding funding from somewhere, most likely WYCA, for frequency enhancements.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 18:08:57 GMT 1
48 or 539 can't be that sorely missed, it would have been brought back by now in some sort of limited form, via finding funding from somewhere like WYCA, or another operator would have took it on, and since its now 16 months later, they can't be that missed surely? 408/409 got brought back in a limited form,, Arriva could only run what was commercially viable to them or what Metro agreed to fund. Think South Yorkshire pulled the funding on the 408/409 on the South Yorkshire side.
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Post by steve440 on Mar 11, 2024 18:38:08 GMT 1
Dwarfer is absolutely correct. Most bus users can walk a few stops and losing the short fares is quite a blow as many trips are just a few stops. Some can cycle. use trains or share taxis. Many have access to a car or can share lifts. The whole campaign for franchising has been predicated of the idea that buses are broken which makes it hard to get new customers to replace the 9% annual churn. The real 'benefit' of franchising is to increase salaries and jobs at WYCA. Otherwise you get the same network that you could get from a well run partnership but costing millions more. The shareholders still get the same dividends via the leasing costs but pass on the losses the taxpayer. Ray. whilst I agree with your point that a partnership would be probably the ideal solution regarding cost, I just don't think First can be relied upon to keep to their side of the bargain. Look what has happened when First received funding for improved services between Huddersfield and Halifax, they reduced other services i.e. the Calder routes between Halifax and Todmorden presumably to free up resources to use on the 501/X1. My local service to Golcar has seen many cuts in recent years including the last bus at 2315 from Huddersfield being withdrawn. Now I can't go into town, to see a concert for example, without either using the car, which I prefer not to under such circumstances, or shelling out for a taxi home so First have lost the income on the journey into town as well. I can't speak for Arriva because I don't know much about their operation in West Yorkshire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 19:03:00 GMT 1
Arriva changes in 5 towns area for the last few years, this is a view I've noticed from various social media sites, talking to people who uses these services.
Positives Evening Services funded for major routes through the BSIP plan, and new additions, 164/165 165 to Kippax new addition, funded by Thorpe Park developers? 140/141, 4 buses an hour from Pontefract to Leeds was previously 2 buses great addition. 103 is this funded by the developers of the new estate where the bus goes? Nice little route and another bus to Pinders as well, which is nice. Wakefield superbus funded later this year
Negatives. 110 being split, didn't go down to well whatsoever. X60 being withdrawn, this still upsets a lot of people, as numerous people said, all X60s was extremely busy both morning and evening. X41 withdrawn X80 for the first time in so so many years, no longer a link from Normanton to Leeds, I know this was only a few times a day each way, but still something, but now no link anymore. 167 being withdrawn upset a lot of people, because I think the 168 no longer goes through Great Preston anymore, I think the 175 covers this, but haven't really studied the timetable. 186/187/188, areas like Altofts, Normanton, Kirkthorpe, losing their evening services, after so many years of having one, reduced to once an hour, Kirkthorpe was once an hour anyway, but still in Altofts and Normanton, it was every 30 mins combined. Also every 2 hours on Sunday with the last bus at about 4pm, used to be hourly with evening service. Ross Travel even withdrew the 125, after so many years of building up a loyal customer clientele, on the route, although it was no longer commercialy viable, but also cut the Wakefield section of the 146, so it's only between Pontefract and Castleford. 177 being withdrawn in an evening, maybe withdrawn to vandalism of buses and drivers being assaulted? 163 every hour evening service, used to be every 30 mins I think. 408/409, service heavily reduced and limited to 3 times a day between Pontefract, Kirk Smeaton, and Darrington in some sort of circular, people still upset about this because they thought Pontefract to Doncaster was a useful link and some of these villages don't have a train service. I think some are served by the 51 though. I presume South Yorkshire didn't want to fund the South Yorkshire section of these routes anymore, which left Arriva only running between Pontefract, Kirk Smeaton and Darrington, which was I guess the only bits commercially viable for Arriva to run.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Mar 11, 2024 19:40:46 GMT 1
Anything at not the 2nd company is that anything that costs even a penny more has to go to director level to be authorised. When I worked in schedules it was more focused on more connectivity, simplicity and real life reliability (look at the pre-covid Calder Valley 590/2/589 timetable for a good example of what I mean). That's when it was ex-drivers but now we are having people out of university who have no clue - it really is an industry that needs to be run 'old school' to run properly. The focus should be on getting that bus out and having it run reliably rather than to what a computer algorithm thinks is best. From what I have heard, the schedules department is "goosed" for a politer word from the inside... Like there is no desire to make any decent timetables and driver duties anymore. It really is a case of like it or lump it. Our man on the inside confirming my thoughts. Thanks Josh.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 12, 2024 5:19:54 GMT 1
Anything at not the 2nd company is that anything that costs even a penny more has to go to director level to be authorised. When I worked in schedules it was more focused on more connectivity, simplicity and real life reliability (look at the pre-covid Calder Valley 590/2/589 timetable for a good example of what I mean). That's when it was ex-drivers but now we are having people out of university who have no clue - it really is an industry that needs to be run 'old school' to run properly. The focus should be on getting that bus out and having it run reliably rather than to what a computer algorithm thinks is best. From what I have heard, the schedules department is "goosed" for a politer word from the inside... Like there is no desire to make any decent timetables and driver duties anymore. It really is a case of like it or lump it. Our man on the inside confirming my thoughts. Thanks Josh. ...who's that? 😜
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jc
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Post by jc on Mar 12, 2024 20:51:25 GMT 1
Talking of profit and connectivity motives, there is one thing about the First Leeds network that's always mystified me.
None of the bus routes 6, 8, 27, 28, 49, 50/A and 56 stop closer to Leeds station than the Headrow which is an 8 minute walk at best. Yet the 19 stops both a couple of minutes away on Boar Lane and likewise Burley Park and Headingley stations. Would it not make more sense for some combination of the above to either follow the 19 route through town, or run a Park Row, Boar Lane, Vicar Lane, Headrow loop?
(I appreciate there's the 1/1B but that would need change of bus for areas beyond Weetwood.)
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 12, 2024 21:04:08 GMT 1
The road network wouldn’t be able to cope with sending more routes via Boar Lane.
I’m sure we’ve all seen traffic gridlock on there over the years
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jc
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Post by jc on Mar 14, 2024 20:45:28 GMT 1
The road network wouldn’t be able to cope with sending more routes via Boar Lane. I’m sure we’ve all seen traffic gridlock on there over the years In that case I'd suggest a route swap, which allows for current 4/4F/16 and 49/50/50A to share stops in town, and stop 5 or 6 minute walk from both the concourse at Leeds station and bus station. West half of 4/4F/16 are paired with east half of 49/50/50A (A) and vice versa (B). A follows 42 route from Wellington Street to Beckett Street, but both ways via Eastgate. B follows 19/19A route via Boar Lane. I'm sure there are sound reasons it can't be done, maybe an extra ~16 bph along park row for one. If you ignored the sharing of stops, just the 16 as is could follow the 42 route and either 49 or 50/50A follow the 19 route.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Mar 14, 2024 22:25:11 GMT 1
If you really wanted to make it easy for West bound 49/50/56, you'd route them via York Street, Kirkgate & turning right onto Vicar Lane (opposite of their east bound returns).
These are routes that have always used Eastgate, it has never been an issue they're minute walks away from the Bus station (in fact, most I know get off at York Street Cultural E for the bus station) and have no complaints.
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