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Post by nic on Jul 14, 2020 22:00:54 GMT 1
I'm sure there was 4 variations of the 93/96 routes. I know the 93 never terminated at the Bus Station unless it was as you mention that city loop on an Evening and Sundays. I can imagine them running the 93 back through the City Square whilst the 96 did one "giant" loop - via normal route of Eastgate and Headrow. Would love for someone to have the many timetables published in the late 90's and into the early 00's. Before First and Overground come with a simpler network which looking back at the variations of 20 years ago seems much more boring, yet efficient and simpler. ? I haven’t got the timetables, not for Leeds anyway, but I will have all the Metro maps. Of course some short lived services and variations may have been and gone in between map issues Be interesting if you could dig them out and share them. Very interesting. It's a shame i binned all mine.
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Post by leeds rider on Jul 14, 2020 22:20:55 GMT 1
[Was this around the same time that Black Prince was operating competition on the University, Bodington Hall to Leeds market? With the 63B? Yes, Black Prince had the 63B (Royal Armouries - Leeds - Bodington Hall), serving the Royal Armouries partly for the Clarence Dock halls of residence next door. One evening journey per hour was a 63A (Halton Dial - Leeds - Bodington Hall), tacking a tendered run to Halton Dial via East End Park on to the commercial Bodington Hall leg. Taylors ran the previously mentioned 96A and also a 1B, Infirmary Street to Holt Park, calling at Bodington Hall on the way. Bigfoot were around the year before (1996) I think. Were they the same company, even? Nope, different companies. Taylor's was based in Morley and started off competing on the Leeds-Morley route along with Black Prince. Think they used route number 53, but I also have vague recollections of them using 19 too, so they may have run out to Moortown as well. Their original livery was all-over red, but by the time they moved onto the Headingley Lane corridor they'd been taken over by K-Line, hence the buses and livery described above. It wasn't very long before K-Line in turn fell to Arriva, and in pretty short order thereafter the routes north of Leeds were withdrawn. Bigfoot was based in Armley, and my possibly faulty memory tells me it was actually owned by Geldards coaches, long before they operated buses under their own name. Certainly their service numbers had a G suffix (1G, 96G). They used Leyland Nationals, and livery was yellow front and black rear, with a diagonal split somewhere towards the rear wheel, and big footprints running up the body sides adjacent to the colour change - I *think* the prints were black on the yellow section, but might have been the other way around. I have a feeling both Taylor's and Bigfoot may have been in service on these routes at the same time, but as I say my memory is possibly faulty so I could be wrong!
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Post by nic on Jul 14, 2020 22:29:35 GMT 1
I can't remember name but wasn't there a company briefly using Livery of Yellow, Red, and two different greens - Bright and normal?
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Post by leeds rider on Jul 14, 2020 23:10:19 GMT 1
I can't remember name but wasn't there a company briefly using Livery of Yellow, Red, and two different greens - Bright and normal? Barring the yellow, could you be thinking of OptionalBus? They acquired their buses from London Country and kept the livery.
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Post by martinsfp on Jul 15, 2020 0:08:35 GMT 1
Ah yes, Taylors also had (as I recall): 21C Leeds to Moortown Corner via Harehills and Roundhay 52B Morley to Moortown Corner via Leeds and Chapeltown Road
Optional Bus’ core route was the 66B Leysholme to St James’s Hospital via Leeds, with an extension to Brackenwood for a while. They also ran buses to Pudsey as the 44B(?) and a 17A from Bramley Shopping Centre to Gipton Coldcotes Circus via Leeds.
First ran a service 49 for a while in 1999 from Bramley Shopping Centre to Oakwood via Armley, Leeds, and St James’s to compete.
EDIT: First also ran a 16C copying the 17A route exactly, if I recall correctly.
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Post by leeds rider on Jul 15, 2020 10:30:23 GMT 1
OptionalBus also had a route (94, I think) that ran out along Burley Road, Kirkstall Hill, Morris Lane and Spen Lane, but not sure where it went after that - I know I caught it once or twice because it covered the lower section of Spen Lane where nobody else ran.
Wasn't the First 49 in competition with Quickstep's 49? ISTR that's the one where the timetable changed about every 2 weeks as each company fought to run just in front of the other.
Another competitor in the Headingley area was Roy's of Morley (not sure of timeframe, but may have been early 90s), who ran a circular 31/32 from Vicar Lane via Headingley Lane, North Lane, Cardigan Road and Burley Road and vice versa.
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Post by nic on Jul 15, 2020 11:32:31 GMT 1
Quickstep what a flash back.
Didn't they end up bought out by First but ran as "First Quickstep" out of Kirkstall road/Cherry Row? On a number of different routes. Didn't they have a fleet of MCW Metrobuses, Dennis Darts - both the Alexander Dash/Plaxton Pointers, and some Leyland Anlantean?
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Post by martinsfp on Jul 15, 2020 13:49:59 GMT 1
Wasn't the First 49 in competition with Quickstep's 49? ISTR that's the one where the timetable changed about every 2 weeks as each company fought to run just in front of the other. That must have been earlier. First had acquired Quickstep by this point.
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Post by leeds rider on Jul 15, 2020 15:37:22 GMT 1
Wasn't the First 49 in competition with Quickstep's 49? ISTR that's the one where the timetable changed about every 2 weeks as each company fought to run just in front of the other. That must have been earlier. First had acquired Quickstep by this point. Ah! quite possibly - my aged brain does tend to collapse time periods a bit that far back. Also, a bit of whirring in my subconscious has come up with the nugget that I was thinking of competition on the 42, not 49. Oops!
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Post by nic on Jul 15, 2020 20:01:35 GMT 1
If we could dig one or two of the Metro Leeds maps out of yest year it would be really interesting.
Just a thought - anyone remember the 61/62 combinations of service? Weren't they 4 variations to each service? Running around Leeds and it's inner city?
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Post by martinsfp on Jul 15, 2020 20:56:29 GMT 1
If we could dig one or two of the Metro Leeds maps out of yest year it would be really interesting. Just a thought - anyone remember the 61/62 combinations of service? Weren't they 4 variations to each service? Running around Leeds and it's inner city? 61, 61B, 61C, 62, 62B, 62C As I recall, the B variants ran evenings and Sundays and ran via St James’s. The C variants ran in the early mornings and served St James’s and Cross Green industrial estate. The B and C variants also had a different route near the university I think, running via St Mark’s Road instead of Blackman Lane.
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Post by nic on Jul 15, 2020 23:19:41 GMT 1
Sounds complicated. Back then i didn't appreciate i was living in such history. Wish i'd kept all the timetables - would be interesting to read the 61/62 times now a days.
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Post by jdodger08 on Jul 16, 2020 11:45:20 GMT 1
Now there is only 61, 61A and 62. The 61's are St James hospital to John Charles Stadium via East End Park, Cross Green and Hunslet. ~roughly hourly I remember taking a 61/62 bus from Harehills to Hunslet when I was in school in the year 2000 but I remember them actually saying they were circulars. If only I had paid more attention! The 62 now is City Bus Station to East End park Circular, serving cross green and Saxton gardens. ~every 30 mins. 61/A - www.wymetro.com/buses/timetables/6162 - www.wymetro.com/buses/timetables/62/29195
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Post by deerfold on Jul 16, 2020 11:50:39 GMT 1
61, 61B, 61C, 62, 62B, 62C As I recall, the B variants ran evenings and Sundays and ran via St James’s. The C variants ran in the early mornings and served St James’s and Cross Green industrial estate. The B and C variants also had a different route near the university I think, running via St Mark’s Road instead of Blackman Lane. At some point. They changed *a lot*.
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Post by yorkslad on Jul 16, 2020 12:10:04 GMT 1
I thought the B variants did the Brown Lane loop? I've dug out some stuff, will do a write up shortly.
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Post by martinsfp on Jul 16, 2020 12:21:40 GMT 1
I thought the B variants did the Brown Lane loop? I've dug out some stuff, will do a write up shortly. Sounds right - I remember catching one round that way one Sunday morning a long time ago.
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Post by yorkslad on Jul 16, 2020 12:52:31 GMT 1
Circulars – potted history. Up until the late 1970s there was a series of circulars from the city centre outwards. Services 57-60 ran to Hyde Park, 61 & 62 did East End Park, 63 & 64 did South Accommodation Road. By the look of it (there are no route descriptions in LCT timetables), services 61 to 64 joined together to form two East End Park via South/Upper Accommodation Road services, 61 & 62.
In the Metro Leeds book for November 1976 they ran every 15 minutes in each direction, taking 45 minutes to do the full loop back to Eastgate.
I have a newspaper pull-out (undated, but early 1980s) which shows the “new” 61 & 62 being revised to run via Hunslet, Holbeck and Wellington Bridge to form the new City Circle. It might have replaced the service from Woodhouse Lane Car Park as well (I’m summarising, not doing detailed research here!). Every 15 minutes peak, 30 minutes off-peak.
Yorkshire Rider timetable booklet, 1987 (again, no route descriptions). Still running, every 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime, every 20 minutes evenings & Sundays. I think we’ve hit the zenith here.
Leeds area MetroMap, September 1996, and we have services 61, 61B, 61C, 62, 62B, 62C. The 61B and 62B ran via Brown Lane loop, 61C and 62C via Cross Green. Combined frequencies were every 30 minutes all day in each direction.
Leeds area MetroMap, December 2012 (sorry, I automatically junked the previous versions – something from before July 2010 would be useful as there were some big changes in Leeds that month). Service 61 runs Hunslet-East End Park-St James’s every 30 minutes during the day, not evenings or Sundays. Peak-time diversions via Cross Green. Services 62 & 62A run Cross Green-Leeds-Armley-Troydale (62A)/Pudsey-Greengates (62). Every 30 minutes, every 60 minutes between Cross Green and Leeds evenings and Sundays.
I have some of these booklets anyway but I’ve been buying some older items as I wanted to compare some Leeds routes in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. A topic for a different thread... the 1/93/96 and variants is equally confusing!
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Post by nic on Jul 16, 2020 16:13:51 GMT 1
Can someone please advise what the brown lane loop is? I've tried google mapping it but to no avail. Of course road layouts etc will have changed some what since these services ran.
Thanks yorkslad for a detailed explanation. When you mention the South Accommodation Road circulars they literally leave the city centre, do the loop around the South Accommodation Road and back in or did they extend to Cross Green and/or Hunslet?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 16, 2020 17:50:26 GMT 1
I'm sure at one point in the late 90's, it was 784 Leeds to Skipton (what became X84) and 780 Leeds to Otley via Pool (what is now X85). The 780 may even have continued to Weston on occasions. I've dug this out, these changes happened September 2001 -- Also on a separate note, After buying the K-Line operations in Leeds in 2000, Arriva closed the depot in January 2001 They withdrew the 29 (Leeds - Seacroft) and services 223/224 (Leeds-Halifax) went back to being run by Heckmondwike They merged the 21C with the Arriva 187 route to become Wakefield to Roundhay via Middleton & Leeds, both this and the 52B were then operated out of Belle Isle. This only lasted until July 2001 when they withdrew the 21 & 52B and the 20 went back to running just to Middleton
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Post by yorkslad on Jul 16, 2020 18:32:43 GMT 1
The Brown Lane loop is... well, Brown Lane, Holbeck. Coming out of Leeds it's on your right off Top Moor Side, opposite Holbeck Moor. I can't remember if buses went as far as Ingram Road but they did a loop around the Cleveleys, onto Crosby Street and back out along Brown Lane to Top Moor Side. That whole area was cut off in different ways when the M621 and Ingram Road Distributor were built. Service 46 (now 86) used to run up from Moor Road, Hunslet Hall Road, Lane End Place (now a wide footpath covered by the M621) and Holbeck Moor Road, for example. Nothing ever ran on Brown Lane previously, that I can see.
On the South Accommodation Road services - there's no route description. Service 63 ran from Eastgate to Eastgate via York Road, South Accommodation Road and Hunslet Road (the other way around for service 64). Timing point at Donisthorpe Street, journey time of around 18 minutes, every 20 minutes (so they probably arrived at Eastgate as a 63 and became a 64, and vice versa). Fare Stages were at Eastgate, Woodpecker Inn, Ellerby Lane, Donisthorpe Street and Crown Point Road.
Hope this helps ;-)
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Jul 16, 2020 21:08:16 GMT 1
Talking about historical routes serving Cross Green/East End Park, I'm sure what replaced the 28 and 30 (Cross Green to Adel routes back in the early to mid 80s, and before) was the 93 (could have been 93A) which If I remember continued from Eastgate via Saxton Gardens and Cross Green Lane to the Industrial Estate for a couple of years. There was also the long standing 97, and for a time 97A/B, these ran from Cross Green (by the old wholesale market) via the majority of Industrial Estate (97B) up Pontefract Lane, through East End Park, up Lupton Ave then through Harehills, Chapel Allerton (97/B) or Gledhow Valley Road (97A), Meanwood, Headingley and Kirkstall all the way to Bramley! I seem to remember a 49 route up East End Park as well, ran some time in the mid 80s along side the 28/30, I can't remember where it ran from but from Leeds it took a route via Saxton Gardens, Easy Road, Richmond Hill and East Park Road to East End Park at Ivy Street.
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Jul 16, 2020 23:54:17 GMT 1
OptionalBus also had a route (94, I think) that ran out along Burley Road, Kirkstall Hill, Morris Lane and Spen Lane, but not sure where it went after that - I know I caught it once or twice because it covered the lower section of Spen Lane where nobody else ran. Route was 794 using VRs then ended with metroriders. Route was Holt Park to Leeds Eastgate via Cookridge, tinshill, spen lane all the way to Burley Road. Wasn't the First 49 in competition with Quickstep's 49? ISTR that's the one where the timetable changed about every 2 weeks as each company fought to run just in front of the other. Another competitor in the Headingley area was Roy's of Morley (not sure of timeframe, but may have been early 90s), who ran a circular 31/32 from Vicar Lane via Headingley Lane, North Lane, Cardigan Road and Burley Road and vice versa.
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Jul 16, 2020 23:55:25 GMT 1
Route was 794 using VRs then ended with metroriders. Route was Holt Park to Leeds Eastgate via Cookridge, Tinshill, Spen lane all the way to Burley Road. OptionalBus also had a route (94, I think) that ran out along Burley Road, Kirkstall Hill, Morris Lane and Spen Lane, but not sure where it went after that - I know I caught it once or twice because it covered the lower section of Spen Lane where nobody else ran. Wasn't the First 49 in competition with Quickstep's 49? ISTR that's the one where the timetable changed about every 2 weeks as each company fought to run just in front of the other. Another competitor in the Headingley area was Roy's of Morley (not sure of timeframe, but may have been early 90s), who ran a circular 31/32 from Vicar Lane via Headingley Lane, North Lane, Cardigan Road and Burley Road and vice versa.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Jul 17, 2020 6:10:33 GMT 1
Re: My comment above about the 97A, I might have been a bit wrong about it's full route as I re-call seeing on Flickr a bus in Woodhouse with 97A on heading to Old Farnley, god knows how it got there as I've defo travelled on several 97A journeys between Cross Green (Pontefract Lane) and Headingley via Gledhow Valley Road and I'm sure they ran on to Bramley.
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Post by nic on Jul 17, 2020 9:25:43 GMT 1
The Brown Lane loop is... well, Brown Lane, Holbeck. Coming out of Leeds it's on your right off Top Moor Side, opposite Holbeck Moor. I can't remember if buses went as far as Ingram Road but they did a loop around the Cleveleys, onto Crosby Street and back out along Brown Lane to Top Moor Side. That whole area was cut off in different ways when the M621 and Ingram Road Distributor were built. Service 46 (now 86) used to run up from Moor Road, Hunslet Hall Road, Lane End Place (now a wide footpath covered by the M621) and Holbeck Moor Road, for example. Nothing ever ran on Brown Lane previously, that I can see. On the South Accommodation Road services - there's no route description. Service 63 ran from Eastgate to Eastgate via York Road, South Accommodation Road and Hunslet Road (the other way around for service 64). Timing point at Donisthorpe Street, journey time of around 18 minutes, every 20 minutes (so they probably arrived at Eastgate as a 63 and became a 64, and vice versa). Fare Stages were at Eastgate, Woodpecker Inn, Ellerby Lane, Donisthorpe Street and Crown Point Road. Hope this helps ;-) Thank you very much so. Think we've both said the similar thing. The routes, even the late 90's, early 00's, have all had route changes due to road changes etc. It's interesting that today and could even argue for the last 15 years we've really had no proper circular routes/no real short inner city workings anymore apart from services to East End Park.
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