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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 26, 2013 11:19:35 GMT 1
You'd be surprised at how many people actually still pay for their journeys at Bus Stations and busy Town Centre stops.
I understand my idea isn't probably refined enough but you get the gist and it would need work and would throw up some anomalies that would need ironing out. But I think it has potential. The thing that is needed is a overall governing fares body, rather than individual operators, this is what that is holding the current situation back each company looking after their own interests. De-regulation has done no favours to the bus network in this respect, this is why, I suspect, Metro are trying to force the Quality Contracts on West Yorkshire.
If someone could actually grab the bus network in West Yorkshire by the short and curlys and drag it into the modern era with a modern business model then it would be onto a winner. The problem is most operators do not want this, they just wish to carry on with the status quo. If you ask me we are heading towards a 6am-6pm service, operators are just not interested in spending their own money to take the service forward, the status quo cannot remain from the passenger point of view.The current set up is killing the West Yorkshire bus network and the way to go is overall control by one body.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 25, 2013 20:55:56 GMT 1
I was unaware that London had reintroduced cash fares on their buses, an error on my part, apologies but I still think the fares system could be revolutionised and modernised with new technology and forward thinking playing a major part.
If the smartcards are to be introduced a 'pay as you go' card could be introduced where the casual user could say, put £10 on their card and use it as and when. I can understand your point though Craig mate, regarding your casual use and not wanting to commit to any monthly or weekly ticket purchases. I also still think ticket machines could be utilised in Town Centres/Bus Stations and high usage stops to speed the boarding flow. I understand it would be costly and unmanageable to have a ticket machine at every stop, not to mention impractical, sticking a machine at a moor top stop would be just ridiculous, but I think they could be used to improve things. Once a ticket is purchased it could contain a barcode which could be scanned by the ticket machine on boarding to verify and record the journey details.
I would also like to see a 'Zonal Fare' system introduced with set fares across each zone for cash fares, if they are to remain, for the casual user. Hopefully this would simplify and make it easier to travel for the casual traveller, instead of having the current 'fare stage' which see's whopping hikes for just getting off one stop earlier. Maps could be displayed at all stops and Metro could educate the West Yorkshire public transport users as to the new system. So you could jump on the bus and say "Zone 1 to Zone 3 please" or you could buy a ticket before hand from one of the ticket machines. So, say each town/city is 'zoned off' with a map containing each stop in that town a certain zone. So, Zone 1 would be the Town centre and its environs, Zone 2 within a mile or so of the town/city centre, so on and so forth, with a set fare for travel between certain zones, similiar to London. And if you were travelling between to towns/cities you would be sold a standard day ticket. I suspect the West Yorkshire fare payer isn't ready for anything so revolutionary, nor is Metro and it would never get off the ground.
What do people reckon to that?
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 24, 2013 23:16:02 GMT 1
Have friendly drivers that don't huff and puff If you were subject to a barrage of abuse, miserable customers/clients, people that dont appreciate the effort the you put in at work, I'm sure you'd huff and puff each day.I catch the bus everyday and I very rarely see anyone giving the driver any abuse, so to be honest, I'm not convinced that they do get a lot.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 23, 2013 21:25:36 GMT 1
If cashless fares were introduced, ie being made to pay up front for daily/weekly trips like the above poster has referred to then, i for one would seriously consider whether i used the bus at all. This thread is about making bus travel better and to withdraw the flexibility of how you pay when you board would make bus travel appalling rather than appealing. If the above poster has such an issue with people paying cash for their ride, Do what a lot of others have done on this forum. Get your own transport!. Buy a car/bike whatever, But do not have the audacity to dictate how people should pay for their bus ride. I don't see why removing cash fares would be such a problem, they have cashless fare buses in London, so why not in West Yorkshire? As I said I see the same people catching the bus everyday paying the driver a cash fare when surely it would be cheaper and more convenient just to purchase a weekly ticket. Besides, people paying cash fares slows down the bus, people fumbling in their bags and purses for change, bus drivers rolling their eyes when presented with a five pound note, drivers pressing every button on the ticket machine before they find the right button for the fare requested. It just makes the bus lose time and make them late which infuriates people down the route waiting for the bus. Cashless fares are on there way, whether you like it or not. Bus operations need to be dragged into the modern era, ticket machines at stops and smart ticketing will become the norm in the not too distant future. If you use the bus regular I do not see why you would have such an issue using a smart card to pay for your travel. Even casual users would benefit from using an Oyster type card. And do not have the audacity to dictate to me what opinion I can and cannot air on a public forum. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Personally I do not give two hoots whether you agree or not, this is a public forum and as long as my opinion is not racist, homophobic or insulting I am totally within my rights to express whatever opinion I wish. If you could actually put forward a valid reason and an explanation as to why you dislike my idea so much I would be more than happy to enter into a reasonable adult debate on it, after all this is what a public forum is for, exchanging views and adult discussion.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 23, 2013 12:00:14 GMT 1
I agree with the original poster regarding the interior of some buses. When they aren't in service ie sitting on the back wall at Huddersfield Bus Station why can't someone whip round with a brush and clean up the litter and give the bus a quick fettle? The interiors of the ALX400's is wretched at best, I've said it before and I'll say it again, they are awful to ride on. The seats are rock hard and the less said about the ropey interior the better.
Real time information is another innovation that could be utilised to let passengers know when the bus is actually coming, rather than leaving people stood at a stop freezing to death, not knowing whether the bus will turn up. On Thursday I caught the 372 from Almondbury, I went to the stop and the bus was coming up from town with 2 minutes to go before it was due to start its journey back towards Lindley (it only had one more stop to go to the terminus). It didn't return until a good 5 minutes after its due departure date. It wasn't late going up so why was it late coming back,was the driver having 5 minutes break? There is just no need for this kind of thing I'm afraid. Another issue with punctuality that annoys me is dwell times for loading passengers. I seem the same people everyday catching the bus paying the driver in cash, it must be costing a fortune!! Buy a weekly/monthly ticket for gods sake, you catch the bus everyday!!! More needs to be done to encourage weekly/monthly ticket buying to stop people paying cash. Hopefully when cash fares are done away with, this issue will improve.
Operator specific tickets put people off travelling by bus and confuse customers as well. I work for the NHS and you can buy a First NHS weekly at a reduced rate, but this was only specific to First buses. Now at Huddersfield Royal Infirmary we have 3 different operators serving the Lindley/Marsh/Town Centre corridor and it annoyed me no end when I used to have let buses pass me by from other operators......grrrrrrr....again hopefully this will be addressed with the smart ticketing when it arrives. I also think maybe more can be done to encourage use of the Corporate Metro Card scheme run by Metro where your employer buys a annual Metro Card and you pay it back through your salary on a monthly basis. In the end I got so fed up with my First NHS Weekly that I joined the scheme at work.
New buses, what seems to happen with new buses is that Leeds get the new buses (well what happens at First anyway) and the rest of West Yorkshire get their cast offs. Over the last few years we have received loads of ALX 400's in Huddersfield, I assume these have been cascaded from Leeds after they had received new models. I understand buses aren't cheap but some of the fleets are just poor. Don't First care about their image?
Just think a more professional attitude and performance would be appreciated from operators. A bit of innovation and new ideas wouldn't go amiss either. Some operators just seem happy to accept hand outs in the form of subsidies and not taking their business' forward, just happy to manage the current decline in passenger numbers and services. I understand some of the smaller operators are limited in cash terms but some of the K-Line drivers are right scruffy buggers, can't they smarten up with some proper uniforms?
On a more unrealistic note....how about some shelters with closing doors and heating? I know they could be expensive but technology is getting cheaper and I just think things need to be moved forward in that respect. People expect operators/Metro to utilise state of the art technology and improve things but I'm not convinced operators think like that.
Right that'll do for now.......
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 23, 2013 0:13:15 GMT 1
I've often wondered why there's never been a direct bus link between Huddersfield and Rochdale. There's no direct rail link to provide competition and given the fact that the 184 service between Huddersfield and Oldham is very successful, I would have thought that potentially this too could be a profitable route. Back in the heady de-reg days Yelloway operated a limited stop Rochdale-Huddersfield-Leeds service utilising the M62(obviously without success). If an operator now ie, First extending the 370/1/2 routes on the A640 corridor or HBC were brave enough to take a gamble on linking the two towns maybe it would be successful. Maybe, we've only just got a bus to Hebden Bridge in the last few years in Huddersfield, so a bus to Rochdale would be a big step. I mean its a sound idea, which route would you take it, M62 or through the moors? When I've ever been to Rochdale on public transport you can change at Brighouse on the train and be there pretty speedily even with a change at Brighouse. With the introduction of the new Metrolink service to Rochdale as well, it could put people off using any bus service. As I said in a previous post, on long distance routes to compete with the train, coach style limited stop services are needed, as I would never catch the bus over the train. I don't ever remember the Yelloway service,when was that?
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 22, 2013 20:55:01 GMT 1
On a similar note, with Trinity Leeds opening today and with shops staying open longer than is traditional in Leeds, should First Leeds (& other operators in Leeds) be extending their daytime commercial frequencies to end at 8pm, or at least a half/half frequency between daytime and evening of say every 20 mins for that two hours? In the last few years First have done just this. Quite a lot of the main core services in Leeds run extra journeys early evening with the traditional 30-minute frequency kicking in closer to 8pm than the 6pm it used to.Crikey....I didn't think they were that forward thinking at First.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 22, 2013 13:17:37 GMT 1
Something needs to be done about bus services in West Yorkshire as service quality is declining as are passenger numbers, the current set up can't remain as in 5 to 10 years we'll just have a early morning till 6pm service. The Quality Contracts, if implemented properly, could revitalise and transform bus services in West Yorkshire, we desperately need something to change, they could increase frequency, open up new routes and increase passenger numbers. The current operators just don't seem interested in moving service levels forward and new ideas seem thin on the ground. There was an article in the Huddersfield Daily Examiner regarding the fare increases asking people to respond with there comments via the papers Facebook page, the vast majority of respondents came up with the same recurring complaint regarding fares. Over short distances taxi's are cheaper for more than one person travelling, this is something operators need to get to grips with,otherwise they will never win passengers back, they just seem interested in moaning about rising fuel costs. I can't criticise Metro for trying to tackle the issue and if they think Quality Contracts will address some of their and passengers concerns the so be it. The contacts has received unanimous backing from passengers and local councils. I just think bus operators have had it their own way for far too long cutting and cutting again services. West Yorkshire has been left to lag behind in terms of public transport compared to other PTE. Metro can't hold a candle to what GMPTE have achieved over the last 20 years or so, we just seemed to have left behind here in West Yorkshire. If Metro are compared to other PTE and what they have achieved in the last 20 years, Metro is still in 1993, where most other PTE have moved on leaps and bounds. Why does West Yorkshire not have a light rail network (slightly off topic,I know)? We are told we are getting some poxy Trolley Buses, whoopi doo, couldn't the money be better spent on normal buses? We have some areas totally cut off the rail network too, The Spen Valley for instance. Its the first time Metro have tried to address a major issue for years, so I can't knock em for that but other than that they need to up their game. West Yorkshire was unfortunate in that First was its major operator with Arriva as the other, First has been bereft of decent commercial thinking for some years whilst Arriva suffered for a number of years from over influence of accountants which led to some over the top cuts and a decline in standards which damaged it's operations. Arriva has since drastically turned itself around and whilst the previous issues did not fatally wound, it has taken it a number of years to recover to the point it has reached where it is quite good where it runs though still doesn't have the threat outside it's area that Stagecoach holds. First is starting to look like it may have found it's mojo in areas it is interested in (and West Yorkshire is one of those areas) but it will be some time before it has changed the culture inside the business that was previously endemic (it is like an oil tanker, it takes ages to turn around but provided no one gets in the way it will get there in the end). It is talking the talk, and starting to walk the walk but it has got a long way to go to prove that it has the staying power to do what needs to be done over the time it will take to get there. The problem is at the moment bus companies are focused on trying to ensure that they can hang on to where they are rather than being able to look forward to making things better. We need to shore up the foundations before we can rebuild the house. The wholesale fuel price that operators pay has almost doubled in the 6 and a half years I have worked for my present employer and that doesn't take into account the around 30% fall in the proportion of fuel tax that operators can claim back from the government. Along with concessionary fare rates that in many areas have nosedived it is hard enough standing still let alone moving forward. I would admit that there are certain areas where I think there are opportunities that operators are missing but I would admit it would be a risk and since it isn't my money that is being risked there is only so far you can criticise. Taxis will always be able to compete on price for group travel as with a taxi you are effectively hiring the vehicle whereas with public transport like buses & trains you are paying for a space so the pricing is different. Bus operators have to price based on their average loadings across the day covering the costs of running the buses as the bus has to run regardless, the taxi only runs when ordered and it makes no difference to the operator whether there is 1 or 4 people on the booked run only that the fare for the hire of the vehicle covers the cost of it undertaking the trip. We could price buses like that but it means passengers would pay after they have alighted based on the number of people who boarded whilst they were on compared to the cost of running the trip they travelled on, no one would no how much they would pay each trip as they may have to pay for the previous empty journey to get to them. It is interesting that you support giving Metro control of the bus network whilst criticising them for being outdated & obsessed with vanity projects. Personally I have two main issues with QCs, one is personal as it puts my livelihood and job at risk so I'm never likely to support something that could make me redundant. The other is that in my experience of dealing with local authorities I wouldn't trust them to organise a drunken party in a brewery, not singling any particular authority out I can't say I have come across any one who have the skills & mindset to successfully manage these sort of networks in a financially constrained manner whilst growing passenger numbers by commercial methods. I'm not a fan of TfL either who have managed what they have through huge amounts of money and making driving a car very expensive, all done in a city that is less than conducive to car use as normal anyway.Where as I wouldn't want anyone to lose their job through the new contracts and I understand, for you, it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. After so much decline and indifference from West Yorkshire's operators, passengers and Metro have just had enough. I understand operators face certain problems, fuel duty one of the biggest, but falling passenger numbers must be a major concern,but in all honesty it doesn't seem to be. If a normal business was losing customers hand over fist they'd either go out of business or up their game, neither seems to be happening in the case of bus services they just keep taking hand outs in form of subsidies. If the operators can't take their business' forward then something needs to change surely? As you point out they just seem to be interested in hanging on. So, in all honesty, I can't criticise Metro for wanting to change the status quo and revitalise West Yorkshires bus network. I also think Metro have been casting a jealous eye at what other PTE's have been achieving and that they have achieved very little in real terms over the last 20 years in making a difference to West Yorkshire public transport. I think we need a little more info as what the Quality Contracts will consist off to make a informed view. On the issue of the taxi's, I take your point and probably saying that taxi's are cheaper is a bit too simplistic. As for First,as someone who has had face to face contact with them I just find them unprofessional and totally uninterested in their customers. I approached them once with a complaint at their offices and it was unbelievable as to what followed. In the end the person I dealt with gave me a list of problems First faced in operating services rather than dealing with my compliant in an appropriate manner. In the end I just left because all that was happening was I was being complained at by First, instead of the other way round. I might as well have just spoken to a brick wall.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 21, 2013 18:43:59 GMT 1
We used to have buses to Barnsley from Huddersfield but they were knocked on the head,although not sure why, as they could probably compete with journey time with the deathly slow Penistone Line. A limited stop service would be financially viable but may get knocked on the head should the Penistone Line be upgraded and see more services. We used to have a few Sheffield services too upto the late 80's early 90's. The thing with long distance service between towns and cities probably need to be limited stop services as people just don't find travelling 2 hours on a bus attractive at all. The other week I caught the last bus back to Halifax from Burnley after the football match and it took ages, the journey times are just not as attractive as trains. If the buses are looking to be profitable on long distance routes limited stop services are the way to go with high quality coach type buses that are comfortable. Again, we used to have limited stop services from Huddersfield to Leeds but again they were knocked on the head, is there a market for the reintroduction of a service to Leeds using the motorway? This would cut out big swathes of the Spen Valley and Heavy Woollen areas.With electrification of the Trans Pennine line and increased frequency its difficult to see it being a success. As for First Buses, I have to agree, they just seem happy to manage the decline in bus services instead of trying to halt the decline and increase patronage. Will things change when the Quality Contracts are introduced? As I seem to get the impression from what Metro say is that another 'big' operator is looking to muscle in on West Yorkshire (I suspect Stagecoach) which could either get First to up their game or see their share of the market decline. To be honest I don't personally rate First, I find them apathetic to services and their customer relations is practically zero. They only seem interested in running services at their convenience and to hell with what passengers actually want and need. For instance the 372 service, the last one to Almondbury on a night is at 21.00, which is totally laughable, the last one used to 23.00. Another thing that needs to be improved, which is hopefully going to be addressed by the Quality Contracts is buses connecting with trains and smart and integrated ticketing. At the minute there is so many different operator specific tickets that people are just confused and just think 'forget it' I'll get a cab or walk. Does anyone have any ideas as to what the quality contracts will bring and what will they consist off? Interurban routes can offer great opportunities but it needs a very focused approach and good judgement to identify the wheat from the chaff. Stagecoach are masters at this sort of thing and have some astounding frequencies on interurban corridors elsewhere in the country. Unfortunately this sort of work is just not in the First mindset as they admit they are focused on urban 'big city' networks rather than this sort of work so they miss the opportunities and let things whither away. Limited stop services are rarely successful and even less so where there is a parallel rail service as running a limited stop bus or coach just means you are running a rubbish train as it removes the advantages of a bus (local stops) but doesn't have the advantages of the train (image, journey time, perceived comfort) and on shorter journeys the price comparison that means National Express type coaches can carve a market don't exist as train fares often come out on returns cheaper than the corresponding bus fare over shorter distances. The other thing holding back longer and limited stop services is concessionary fares reimbursement - these sort of services rely on fewer passengers travelling but at higher fares and with reimbursement rates in many areas if the proportion of concessionary passengers is too high then the economics fall apart (I know that killed off a couple of similar services on the South Coast at companies I worked for in recent years). I don't know the reason for the original withdrawal of the Huddersfield to Barnsley services (I think they predated national free concessionary travel introduction) but I am led to believe that the current rates in SY are not conducive to their resurrection, plus you have strong services on either side of the border which makes it more difficult for someone from one side to extend to the other as there will be limited local demand in the 'non-local' section meaning fewer passengers to pay for the extra resources needed to run cross border. You also have the issue of European Hours and the 50km limit when looking at longer services, I'm not sure of the precise distances but I suspect that Halifax - Rochdale - Manchester is over 50km (if it isn't it is very close especially when you factor in any diversions via town centres etc). I think running via Oldham would come out under but since there is no existing service between on the cross pennine section it would indicate much greater work on passenger generation to get it going. It might work but it is probably a bigger risk than anyone is able to take in the current climate, particularly with the threat to BSOG at the moment. If it were Stagecoach rather than First that was running the two halves (Manchester - Oldham & Rishworth - Halifax) they might be willing to run the risk but as it is First it is very unlikely. Quality Contracts appear to have gone onto the back burner in West Yorkshire recently, I think Metro have finally woken up to the realisation that everyone has been telling them (including TfL) that to do it right QCs cost a huge amount of money and if you don't have that money you are better off working in Partnerships. If the Metro reference to a 'big player' being interested in WY as part of a QC it wouldn't be Stagecoach who are threatening everything under the sun at Nexus if they implement QCs. Stagecoach have been fairly clear that they don't agree with QCs, are unlikely to co-operate with them and don't appear interested in getting involved in them elsewhere - they only returned to London as they could buy it back for about a tenth (probably an exaggeration but a lot less) of what they sold it for and are running it standalone with all new additions being leased vehicles which will not be added to the provincial fleet when they become surplus in London.
What QCs offer is a little unclear and depend on how much money is available, none of the ITAs looking at QCs have so far provided a clear idea of what they intend to do if they had control other than 'better' than what is currently on offer without explaining better or how it will be financed. With no extra money you will largely see the same network just done a little worse with less commercial flair and the good services reduced to supply resource for marginal services that are politically expedient. If they have money it depends on who is in charge but since this is the UK you are likely to see a lot of wasted money going on vanity projects and politically positive but operationally pointless schemes (the introduction and premature withdrawal of the artics & the Borismaster anyone?).
Something needs to be done about bus services in West Yorkshire as service quality is declining as are passenger numbers, the current set up can't remain as in 5 to 10 years we'll just have a early morning till 6pm service. The Quality Contracts, if implemented properly, could revitalise and transform bus services in West Yorkshire, we desperately need something to change, they could increase frequency, open up new routes and increase passenger numbers. The current operators just don't seem interested in moving service levels forward and new ideas seem thin on the ground. There was an article in the Huddersfield Daily Examiner regarding the fare increases asking people to respond with there comments via the papers Facebook page, the vast majority of respondents came up with the same recurring complaint regarding fares. Over short distances taxi's are cheaper for more than one person travelling, this is something operators need to get to grips with,otherwise they will never win passengers back, they just seem interested in moaning about rising fuel costs. I can't criticise Metro for trying to tackle the issue and if they think Quality Contracts will address some of their and passengers concerns the so be it. The contacts has received unanimous backing from passengers and local councils. I just think bus operators have had it their own way for far too long cutting and cutting again services. West Yorkshire has been left to lag behind in terms of public transport compared to other PTE. Metro can't hold a candle to what GMPTE have achieved over the last 20 years or so, we just seemed to have left behind here in West Yorkshire. If Metro are compared to other PTE and what they have achieved in the last 20 years, Metro is still in 1993, where most other PTE have moved on leaps and bounds. Why does West Yorkshire not have a light rail network (slightly off topic,I know)? We are told we are getting some poxy Trolley Buses, whoopi doo, couldn't the money be better spent on normal buses? We have some areas totally cut off the rail network too, The Spen Valley for instance. Its the first time Metro have tried to address a major issue for years, so I can't knock em for that but other than that they need to up their game.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 20, 2013 21:04:38 GMT 1
We used to have buses to Barnsley from Huddersfield but they were knocked on the head,although not sure why, as they could probably compete with journey time with the deathly slow Penistone Line. A limited stop service would be financially viable but may get knocked on the head should the Penistone Line be upgraded and see more services. We used to have a few Sheffield services too upto the late 80's early 90's. The thing with long distance service between towns and cities probably need to be limited stop services as people just don't find travelling 2 hours on a bus attractive at all. The other week I caught the last bus back to Halifax from Burnley after the football match and it took ages, the journey times are just not as attractive as trains. If the buses are looking to be profitable on long distance routes limited stop services are the way to go with high quality coach type buses that are comfortable.
Again, we used to have limited stop services from Huddersfield to Leeds but again they were knocked on the head, is there a market for the reintroduction of a service to Leeds using the motorway? This would cut out big swathes of the Spen Valley and Heavy Woollen areas.With electrification of the Trans Pennine line and increased frequency its difficult to see it being a success.
As for First Buses, I have to agree, they just seem happy to manage the decline in bus services instead of trying to halt the decline and increase patronage. Will things change when the Quality Contracts are introduced? As I seem to get the impression from what Metro say is that another 'big' operator is looking to muscle in on West Yorkshire (I suspect Stagecoach) which could either get First to up their game or see their share of the market decline. To be honest I don't personally rate First, I find them apathetic to services and their customer relations is practically zero. They only seem interested in running services at their convenience and to hell with what passengers actually want and need. For instance the 372 service, the last one to Almondbury on a night is at 21.00, which is totally laughable, the last one used to 23.00.
Another thing that needs to be improved, which is hopefully going to be addressed by the Quality Contracts is buses connecting with trains and smart and integrated ticketing. At the minute there is so many different operator specific tickets that people are just confused and just think 'forget it' I'll get a cab or walk.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what the quality contracts will bring and what will they consist off?
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 15, 2013 23:08:30 GMT 1
You usually get a e-mail from Northern about the offer but I didn't get one this time, bit miffed if truth be known that I missed out on the vouchers. I had no idea that they had made the offer available again, I did actually think to myself about it the other day when they maybe doing it again.
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Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 15, 2013 21:01:34 GMT 1
The Huddersfield typography contains (from left to right): St Georges Square/Rail Station, The George Hotel (famous for something related to rugby and also architecture), Canal lock gate sculpture in Stalybridge is Armentieres Square made from Huddersfield narrow canal lock, Huddersfield Parish Church of St. Peter’s, Victoria Tower/Castle Hill, Unsure about this one, maybe the Uni?Emley Mast, John Smith's Stadium Also ratty, I know they are having to sell depots for a range of finical things, but the livery must of cost a lot and if they were already in debt it seems a poor decision at this time since I doubt it will aid any profits to pay off. Correct, its from the Uni campus. One thing I'm a bit bemused about the repaints are some of the older buses are getting the make over too, mainly the older double deckers ALX 400's and the like. Aren't these due to be scrapped anytime soon? They are awful to ride on, freezing,damp, the seats are rock hard (there is one in the Huddersfield area that has been fitted with seats that you see in Wright models which improve the ride no end), you can't see the destination boards on a night when its dark. I hope they don't start with the Plaxton bone shakers either.
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