sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 27, 2024 13:32:40 GMT 1
Details now added to service changes page although it leaves more questions than answers.
That's an awful lot of services using very few stops on Nelson St, Bridge St, Vicar Lane and Hall Ings! Eight from N1, Seven from N2, Fourteen from B1, Eight from H11 & Ten from Vicar Lane Z. Some of these also include some of Bradford's highest frequency services leaving from the same stop.
Also what is the point of saying 'your bus will go from this stop' without providing a map showing where the new stops are, especially as most of them don't appear on the existing map available on the website.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 27, 2024 9:51:22 GMT 1
I'm a little confused about all of this drivers not knowing the routes.
Haven't drivers already at the depots taken over by Stagecoach just TUPE'd over to the new employer. I can't imagine all of First Oldhams drivers have gone to Rochdale, or Queens Rd drivers have gone to other GNW depots.
If they have, where have Stagecoach found all these new drivers when every other company has driver shortages?
It's like all the drivers have been replaced or had their memories wiped if the problems are as widespread as reported
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 22, 2024 12:04:10 GMT 1
Passenger Transport magazine is reporting on industry rumours regarding the upcoming Tranche 3 awards which suggests that Stagecoach will only win one of the five large contracts which are up for grabs in South & East Manchester. It's expected that First and Diamond will be succesful with most of the four smaller franchises, but that a newcomer to the region may win some or all of the remaining large franchises. Confort DelGro, better known in London as Metroline, appear to be the most prominant name being bandied around. If true then this will be a significant loss of work for Stagecoach who operate pretty much all the large depots which remain to be brought into the Bee Network next January. I reckon it's probably even more likely that if this comes to pass they would look to West Yorkshire's franchised network to regain some business. www.passengertransport.co.uk/2024/03/speculation-mounts-over-tranche-3-winners/
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 18, 2024 11:59:57 GMT 1
11727 - SK23 CRV 203 Stockport to Manchester Piccadilly Gardens, enjoyed the ride the MMCs are quite smooth Crikey the 203 must have been recently tarmacced from start to finish for an MMC to give a smooth ride. The journey I had on 11537 on the 192 adjusted every bone in my body, the suspension felt so stiff and every part of the bus appeared to rattle violently. I also rode 11738 & 11740 on the 330 but they weren't appreciably better even though almost brand new. You must have a much younger skeleton than me that all I can say! I must admit, I found the arrangement at Ashton strange as well with those odd three stops by the tram stop, Stockport bus station was a week or two away from opening when I visited in January but it did look impressive albeit with a lot of building work still ongoing.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 18, 2024 11:25:34 GMT 1
Gemini 2422 has crossed the Pennines over the weekend, working on Aireline today.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 16, 2024 23:07:24 GMT 1
60A to Kirkstall - Transdev Keighley B9 2792 91 to Bramley - First Leeds Electroliner 63590 14 to Leeds - First Leeds Electroliner 63571 5 to Osmondthorpe - First Leeds Yutong 68806 163 to Garforth - Arriva ADL Enviro 400 MMC 1954 163 to Castleford - Arriva ADL Enviro 400 MMC 1966 189 to Wakefield- Arriva Optare Versa 795 110 to Leeds - Arriva Streetdeck 1562 60 home - Transdev Keighley B9 2792
First time I've ridden the 60A variant of Aireline, I was quite surprised at how many passengers we collected on that part of the route, good to see.
Of the next three electric vehicles all performed very well with the Electroliners just shading the Yutong, probably due to that new bus feel. All had very good acceleration, maybe too good in places with passengers lurching around if not sitting down quickly enough at stops.
After that, the day went downhill with Arriva Yorkshire living up to their poor recent rating today.
Both MMC's performed as all of this type I have ever ridden seem to, uncomfortable ride quality and rattles and squeaks galore. Had a brand new Stagecoach Manchester one the other month which was just as bad. Lovely looking buses but that's all they have going for them.
The first driver in particular must have been having a really bad day as he was driving so aggressively that I felt I needed to break the journey up to avoid arriving in Cas with whiplash.
He also only just avoided an accident of his own making when a car pulled out on him with admittedly little care. Putting his foot down to get right up his rear, presumably to show his dissatisfaction, almost backfired when the car in question then slowed to make a right turn forcing extremely heavy braking being necessary.
As a professional he shouldn't let stuff like this get to him, honestly having driven buses for a living myself this kind of behaviour by car drivers is a regular occurrence and you just have to rise above it.
The second Arriva service was plagued by a group of 10 year olds swearing and vaping which obviously isn't Arriva's fault but shows what a battle bus companies have in providing a pleasant journey for their customers.
The Versa was decent enough, I was a little surprised at how quiet the 189 has become with only 8 passengers carried throughout the whole journey into Wakefield at 2 O'clock on a Saturday afternoon.
Getting out of Wakefield was the real issue with the 15.35 425 to Bradford sitting on stand well past it's departure time with no driver in sight after I believe the 15.05 had also been cancelled.
I left the huge Bradford queue for the 15.45 110 to Leeds, whose driver also didn't arrive until after it's scheduled departure time. I understand breaks must be taken but most buses I rode today were on time so you have to wonder if there is a reasonable excuse for drivers boarding buses so late? Maybe the duties need reviewing to ensure drivers can depart on time.
I think the 425 did eventually leave over 15 minutes late which explained why it wasn't one of the other four buses on the departure board which showed up as having been cancelled at around that time.
As I find almost every time I ride one, the Streetdeck on the 110 provided the most comfortable journey of the day, smooth and without any moans or groans from chassis or bodywork. I know this is an unpopular opinion but from a passenger perspective I love me a Streetdeck.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 16, 2024 15:15:50 GMT 1
1427/32 both in Castleford Depot If anyone is looking for 1427, it's tracking as 1428. Just photographed it on the 186
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 15, 2024 23:20:43 GMT 1
I've been to almost everywhere in England & Wales over the last fifteen years or so and I'm struggling to work out where you mean?
All of South Yorkshires major town & cities do. Manchester has, Merseyside has with the exception of Southport. Tyneside has plenty. West Midlands also does with exception of Birmingham.
If the same construction company is ahead of schedule at Stockport and behind at Halifax on a much much smaller scale bus station could the answer be that West Yorkshire's scrutiny of the project is more lax than Greater Manchesters?
Really starting to think that you work for the combined authority with your rose tinted view of them.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 15, 2024 20:28:16 GMT 1
Stagecoach Manchester have a batch of E400 MMC's being delivered, in Bee Network livery, from Scarborough at the moment but can't explain the display. Could they have maybe said route 18 as Stagecoach will take over that route shortly and there are short workings to Shudehill? Even then that is quite the distance from the 17/18. I would say it is just drivers on training but the destination boards being on is very strange I meant more like being delivered from Scarborough to Manchester although still doesn't explain why those destination displays.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 15, 2024 17:54:46 GMT 1
I spotted a couple of Bee Network E400 MMCs on the M62 near Huddersfield this afternoon. They both had '8 - Shudehill' on the desti, which I thought was strange as I didn't think Go North West had any E400 MMCs... Stagecoach Manchester have a batch of E400 MMC's being delivered, in Bee Network livery, from Scarborough at the moment but can't explain the display. Could they have maybe said route 18 as Stagecoach will take over that route shortly and there are short workings to Shudehill?
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 15, 2024 13:29:37 GMT 1
I think we are perhaps overthinking the amount of thought that needs to be put into cross-boundary services? TfGM didn't put much thought into it, and they haven't had any issues. Issuing a permit is probably easier than we think! That's one thing at least we agree on, I thought they spent way too much time raising questions on cross boundry services when they will clearly work themselves out with minimal difficulty. I'd be more worried about all of the woolly answers given about small operators, they never really answered what will happen if one or more major operators just decide to bid for all of the small franchises. Other than to say 'that's not a problem because we'll buy all your newish buses from you', I don't think there was a lot of reassurance given.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 15, 2024 10:53:38 GMT 1
Don't worry, after watching yesterdays meeting they're really confident that franchising will work, even if some of the councillors present obviously also had serious misgivings.
Having said that they were very confident that the East Leeds Flexibus service would work, despite the huge body of evidence, even at that time, which suggested that DRT services almost always fail. I've just been reading the METRO press release from October 2021 with all kinds of wonderful promises about the benefits it would bring. I wonder what will happen at the end of the three year pilot scheme.......oh wait....? Must have been First's fault that it was such a disaster as they were all so confident. 🤣
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 14, 2024 16:51:56 GMT 1
And... It's franchising! With massive massive support from the general public as demonstrated with the documents. Congratulations although I'd hardly call the 1,176 public responses as massive massive support from the general public. More a sample of people who felt strongly enough to bother to give an opinion whereas the rest of the county, including myself, either couldn't care less or knew it was a pointless exercise. There's no need to put the politicians spin on it now as the predetermined result has been achieved. Cue the next five years of arguing on the forum about every pro and con which franchising ultimately brings.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 13, 2024 19:31:05 GMT 1
The non public transport users couldn't care less, in fact they would probably be more anti franchising as they would be concerned about paying more taxes for something they will hardly ever use. Bus users will mainly want franchising as they believe that any change has to be for the better. It isn't so far if you look at the Bee Network socials but it's really too early to tell. It will be interesting to see just how many responses to the consultation there has been. However many it is it will be a miniscule percentage of the population of West Yorkshire. The overwhelming favouritism of this small sample of people will be heralded as vindication of the proposals whereas when a union takes staff out on strike on votes with much larger percentages of participation, government will scream that it's not representative. You can make statistics fit any agenda, what I took from the passenger focus report today was that lots of people were unsatisfied with the state of their bus stops. Whose responsibility is that...? Couldn't Public Transport users make the same argument about paying taxes towards pro car policies? Even if some car users are not willing to make the switch, other people switching to improved public transport benefits them with reduced traffic, improved journey times, less road damage, reduced accident risks & easier parking. The Bee Network has certainly been more mixed then what Burnham would of wanted, but even in central Europe it doesn't run 100% well the entire time. Ah yes, but there are more votes....err I mean car users than there are public transport users. Car users probably think it's a wonderful idea for other car users to give up their cars but 'I can't because of X, Y or Z' Put any politician in front of a big decision where either car users or bus users will be inconvenienced and watch where their allegiance falls. It's unlikely there would be much fanfare over their decision though
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 13, 2024 19:15:40 GMT 1
and if the next mayor doesn't want franchising? Then they'll stop the process. That's how politics works. The opposition get in, they have different plans. I'm not sure what other answer there could be. Usually it's more common for the new regime to plough on with what has gone before. It's a win win, if the project is then a success they take credit, if it fails they can, and do, blame their predecessors.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 13, 2024 19:07:20 GMT 1
The non public transport users couldn't care less, in fact they would probably be more anti franchising as they would be concerned about paying more taxes for something they will hardly ever use.
Bus users will mainly want franchising as they believe that any change has to be for the better. It isn't so far if you look at the Bee Network socials but it's really too early to tell.
It will be interesting to see just how many responses to the consultation there has been. However many it is it will be a miniscule percentage of the population of West Yorkshire.
The overwhelming favouritism of this small sample of people will be heralded as vindication of the proposals whereas when a union takes staff out on strike on votes with much larger percentages of participation, government will scream that it's not representative.
You can make statistics fit any agenda, what I took from the passenger focus report today was that lots of people were unsatisfied with the state of their bus stops. Whose responsibility is that...?
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 13, 2024 16:21:21 GMT 1
Conversely once the bus company has won their franchise and locked in their profit margins for seven years they have absoltely no incentive to do anything more to attract passengers above their contractual obligations. Meanwhile we will have gone through this huge upheaval, paid off the consultants with their millions of pounds for a CHANCE of minor improvements? There is no magic bullet, only significant bus priority improvements and a change of public attitude to public transport can really make a difference. Our main companies fail to attract customers in the first place, remember the last non taxpayer funded service improvement from FWY? Me neither! It's not like they can win a contract and put their feet up. They have to maintain the standards set in the contract. If they don't they will be fined. You mention bus priority, what motive does an authority have to build priority in a private network? Theres so much more of an incentive in a public network, and that has been demonstrated over in Manchester. They are doing all sorts of infrastructure improvements because they actually have a profit incentive Obviously only time will tell and even in 10-15 years time we will probably still disagree over whether it has been successful or not. I'm certain now that franchising will happen and you will get your way, you seem to be an idealist and a positive person whereas I'm more of a realist and pragmatist. My gut feeling is that we will get a service which is somewhere between slightly better and slightly worse than we have now but I don't think there will be a huge shift no matter which route we take. The big winners as usual will be the consultancy firms who take and take money out of every sector of the world, depriving the customer of funds which could be better used on the actual services we receive.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 13, 2024 16:05:36 GMT 1
Honest question for the pro franchise people with no agenda, I'm just curious. What makes you think that the funding for franchising will be available to achieve and maintain all of the improvements you are expecting. Almost all central government departments have seen cuts to their budgets for years now. Local councils are running out of money for essential services such as social care and childrens services. The UK has debts close to the levels seen at the end of the last world war which will have to be addressed no matter which political party is in power next year. Buses are flavour of the month at the moment but when it comes to a choice between the NHS, police, defence and transport do you really believe this funding will be protected long term? If, as I suspect will happen in the future, the funding is squeezed which do you thing will happen first. Service and infrastructure cuts Fare rises or Large Council tax rises Even assuming a sustained upturn in bus use is achieved,which I think is highly doubtful, I suspect we may see a combination of all three while the private companies you loathe will continue to provide profits for their shareholders, which are mainly our pension funds, by building their profit margins into their bids. All the points you make are even worse for an EP+ Franchising at the very minimum has the CHANCE to generate income to fund the improvements. We have the biggest chance since our PTE is one of the best performing in the country, funding the minor increases in frequency that were demonstrated in the documents will not be an issue. An EP+? You give, give, and give and receive nothing in return. Once you have nothing to give, you see no improvements and the network will revert back to normal or worse (Sheffield) Conversely once the bus company has won their franchise and locked in their profit margins for seven years they have absolutely no incentive to do anything more to attract passengers above their contractual obligations. Meanwhile we will have gone through this huge upheaval, paid off the consultants with their millions of pounds for a CHANCE of minor improvements? What happens if public transport usage continues to decline and because the losses are now the responsiblity of the public purse and we can't afford to pay someone to run the next set of franchises without major cuts. There is no magic bullet, only significant bus priority improvements and a change of public attitude to public transport can really make a difference.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 13, 2024 15:31:30 GMT 1
Honest question for the pro franchise people with no agenda, I'm just curious.
What makes you think that the funding for franchising will be available to achieve and maintain all of the improvements you are expecting.
Almost all central government departments have seen cuts to their budgets for years now. Local councils are running out of money for essential services such as social care and childrens services. The UK has debts close to the levels seen at the end of the last world war which will have to be addressed no matter which political party is in power next year.
Buses are flavour of the month at the moment but when it comes to a choice between the NHS, police, defence and transport do you really believe this funding will be protected long term?
If, as I suspect will happen in the future, the funding is squeezed which do you think will happen first.
Service and infrastructure cuts Fare rises or Large Council tax rises
Even assuming a sustained upturn in bus use is achieved,which I think is highly doubtful, I suspect we may see a combination of all three while the private companies you loathe will continue to provide profits for their shareholders, which are mainly our pension funds, by building their profit margins into their bids.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 12, 2024 22:18:58 GMT 1
Counterpoint to the haters: the current system is unsustainably bad. A centrally organised and fully publicly accountable system, with aspirations to form part of a fully integrated bus, tram, and rail network in the future is a great step forward. Sorry, I have had a little chuckle about the phrase 'fully publicly accountable' Even the local councillors are having trouble getting information about Bradford Interchange, the public will have no chance! Also I really don't remember all the integration between bus and railways when the PTE & NBC were in charge last time.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 11, 2024 21:55:16 GMT 1
For those who have forgot this date is where the decision for an EP+ or a franchised network will be revealed. It's undeniably going to be a busy day for the forum, especially for this topic, so I thought a thread would be appropriate. When does consultation ever end up with any other result other than what government/local government want. It's just a paper exercise to say that they've consulted with the public. In any sane world we would wait five years to see how franchising in Manchester has gone but no rush in like sheep. I'm sure franchising will be the way we go though. I disagreed with deregulation in the past but don't see the need to return to regulation when the problems of the bus industry are mainly out of the control of the operators or the combined authority regardless of whoever is in charge. Change for changes sake, just like in every other part of society.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 11, 2024 21:42:38 GMT 1
Lets hope nothing happens to them, as South Pennine are a fantastic company one of the very best enabling lots of people to get out. I hope they don't get replaced by any of the big operators, who won't be able to provide as good as service on those routes like South Pennine My prediction is it may be easier for the smaller operators to bid for services in West Yorkshire as there's less of a threat with bigger companies compared to Greater Manchester as they had First, Stagecoach, Rotala, Go-Ahead and Arriva to beat which is actually 4/5 of the big five and Rotala probably being in the Big ten compared to West Yorkshire only really having the threat of Arriva, Transdev and First. I reckon TLC and South Pennine could manage staying but I am unsure about others. With the profitability of Leeds what makes you think Stagecoach, Go Ahead, Rotala etc won't bid. I'd be surprised if at least two of them don't. Based on whatever happens in Manchester's tranche 3 results later this month someone's going to end up losing work overall and could be looking to make back some business.
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 7, 2024 14:38:27 GMT 1
Here's what I know will be an unpopular opinion based on other threads but to me bus timetables are of no use at all in the year 2024 and there are now much better alternatives for the public which I think make them obsolete.
There is much criticism of how bus operators, First mainly, produce timetables but surely what they are trying to achieve here is a timetable which uses a happy average between the best and worst day on each individual journey. However they timetable their services it's always going to be a work of fiction.
The nostalgic view of clock face timetables on a piece of paper with buses leaving stops at the same times every hour is just not realistic in this century and nothing annoys passengers more than a late bus. On the flip side how often do you hear passengers moaning on a warm August day at buses waiting time at timing points when all the school traffic is missing?
I work in Leeds and have driven into work since Covid as I'm only in the office one day a week. Leaving work in my car on the same day, at the same time, using the same route, with no passengers to collect it seems that people would expect me to arrive home 9 miles later at the same exact time every week. No, there can easily be up to 15 minutes difference.
Leave work an hour later, and my journey times are extended further. School hols can mean I'm home earlier unless its sunny and everyone is enjoying day trips. The slightest bit of rain in the winter and the journey time is extended. What is the point of a timetable when these are only a small percentage of the full lust of variables.
It's OK my bus supposedly leaving at .22 and .52 all day long but how often does the bus arrive at this time in reality.
I love a paper bus timetable, I do, but I collect them and stuff them into a drawer to add to my collection. When it comes to catch my own bus I know one route is every 15 minutes and the other is every 20, with one more hourly.
That's all the information I need as a passenger along with maybe first and last bus times each way and approximate journey times. Obviously privately the operator will need something for running boards but these don't need to be public facing documents, the majority of my family and friends don't even know how to read one!
As for myself, before I leave the house do I run upstairs to check the timetable...no I open my app, look at where the bus is on the map and set off when it's half a mile away. It's not foolproof but it's a lot more reliable than the humble old bus timetable.
Discuss....
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Feb 27, 2024 10:47:44 GMT 1
I notice that the original article has now been removed without any replacement I can see in the bus alerts section.
Maybe someone has woken up and said 'ooh, hang on a minute!'
|
|
sharksmith
Forum Member
Posts: 938
Member is Online
|
Post by sharksmith on Feb 18, 2024 10:17:12 GMT 1
I had the same issue with the T&A website. I find if you switch to incognito mode on your browser the site doesn't know how many articles you have read.
|
|