December 2008 detailed summary of changes

[Craig]

These changes have been documented already on the forum but now that timetables are available online I thought it would be a good idea to provide this summary.

Caldervale and Huddersfield Lines

Westbound service

xx08 Leeds > Manchester Vic now runs as the "semi-fast" service and will only call at Bramley, New Pudsey, Bradford Int, Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Todmorden, Rochdale, arriving at Manchester at xx32 (end to end only 6 mins faster than the stopping service).

xx37 Leeds > Manchester Vic runs as present other than calling at Walsden in place of the xx08 run, meaning Walsden's trains to Manchester now depart on the opposite half hour.

xx13 Leeds > Dewsbury > Hebden Bridge is extended to Manchester Victoria calling at Todmorden, Littleborough, Smithy Bridge, Rochdale, Castleton, Mills Hill, Moston, arriving at Manchester at xx53.

xx22 Leeds > Wakefield Westgate (starting from Selby) and xx51 Leeds > Blackpool (starting from York) are unchanged.

Eastbound service

xx24 Manchester Vic > Leeds now runs a few minutes earlier departing at xx21 but is otherwise unchanged.

xx54 Manchester Vic > Leeds now runs as the "semi-fast" service and departs earlier at xx48. Calls only at Rochdale, Todmorden, Hebden Bridge, Halifax, Bradford Int, New Pudsey, Bramley, arriving at Leeds at xx10 and then continues to Selby in place of the train from Wakefield.

xx29 Wakefield Westgate > Leeds > Selby now has a 19 minute wait at Huddersfield due to this service swapping paths between Halifax and Leeds with the new "semi-fast" Man Vic > Leeds service. Also because of this change this service now terminates at Leeds while the Man Vic train continues to Selby instead.

xx43 Hebden Bridge > Dewsbury > Leeds now starts back from Manchester Victoria departing at xx00 and calling at Moston, Mills Hill, Castleton, Rochdale, Smithy Bridge, Littleborough, Todmorden and then departing Hebden Bridge slightly earlier than present at xx41.

xx30 Blackpool North > Leeds > York now departs slightly earlier at xx29 but is otherwise unchanged.

Pros and cons

Brand new extra hourly service between Leeds / Morley / Dewsbury / Mirfield / Brighouse stations and Todmorden / Rochdale / Castleton / Mills Hill / Moston / Manchester Victoria stations.

Slightly improved journey times between Leeds, Bradford, Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Todmorden, Rochdale and Manchester Vic.

One less train per hour between Mytholmroyd / Sowerby Bridge stations and Halifax / Bradford / New Pudsey / Bramley / Leeds stations. Note that as present some additional morning peak trains call at Mytholmroyd / Sowerby Bridge.

Less peak trains from Walsden as previously mentioned, specifically in the morning peak there are 2 less trains in both directions and in the evening there are 3 less trains from Manchester and 1 less train from Leeds.

Hallam and Pontefract Lines

Southbound service

New Service xx05 Leeds > Sheffield > Nottingham "semi-fast" calls at Wakefield Kirkgate, Barnsley, Meadowhall, Sheffield (arriving xx02 and departing xx05), Dronfield, Chesterfield, Alfreton, Langley Mill, arriving at Nottingham at xx01.

xx16 Leeds > Sheffield "semi-fast" retimed to depart at xx37 arriving at Sheffield at xx37.

xx34 Leeds > Sheffield stopping service now runs slightly earlier departing at xx32.

xx04 Leeds > Knottingley now runs slightly earlier departing at xx00.

xx56 Knottingley > Wakefield Kirkgate now runs slightly earlier departing at xx53 connecting at Wakefield with the new xx23 to Sheffield and Nottingham.

Northbound service

New Service xx11 Nottingham > Sheffield > Leeds "semi-fast" calls at Langley Mill, Alfreton, Chesterfield, Dronfield, Sheffield (arriving xx15 and departing xx18), Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate, arriving at Leeds at xx18.

xx51 Sheffield > Leeds "semi-fast" is unchanged.

xx08 Sheffield > Leeds stopping service now runs slightly earlier departing at xx06.

xx18 Knottingley > Leeds now runs slightly earlier departing at xx16.

xx38 Wakefield Kirkgate > Knottingley now runs earlier departing at xx31 maintaining a (tight) connection at Wakefield with the xx51 from Sheffield.

Pros and cons

Brand new extra hourly service between Leeds, Wakefield, Barnsley, Meadowhall, Sheffield, Dronfield, Chesterfield, Alfreton, Langley Mill and Nottingham.

Together with the existing "semi-fast" service this provides a train every 30 minutes between Leeds, Wakefield, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield. Also the new service is timed to depart a few minutes before the CrossCountry service in each direction, which will hopefully help to alleviate the serious overcrowding that occurs regularly on XC, particularly between these stations.

The service frequency between Sheffield, Meadowhall and Barnsley is also increased to approx. every 15 minutes.

The existing network is maintained, therefore there are no "cons" to these changes!

Note the new Leeds to Nottingham service also runs on Sundays approx. hourly, though many journeys depart Leeds and Sheffield at around the same times as XC trips.

[SF07]

Can I ask where you got that information from? Can't find it

[jackh]

Is the new Nottingham fast train to be operated by Northern Rail or is East Midlands providing this service?

I suppose this will compliment the existing East Midlands Liverpool-Norwich service between Sheffield and Nottingham to provide a half hourly service between the two?

[humberside]

Sept 22, 2008 13:57:39 GMT 1 @jackh said:

Is the new Nottingham fast train to be operated by Northern Rail or is East Midlands providing this service?

Northern

[SF07]

Sept 22, 2008 13:57:39 GMT 1 @jackh said:

Is the new Nottingham fast train to be operated by Northern Rail or is East Midlands providing this service?

Yep, Northern will run it and it does sound like from what being said on here, that it will complement the EMT train from Liverpool to Norwich, running pretty much a half-hour service.

From Sheffield	NR	EMT
Sheffield dep	05	38
Nottingham arr	01	31

From Nottingham	NR	EMT
Nottingham dep	11	42
Sheffield arr	15	42

www.northernrail.org/news/45

[Craig]

The East Midlands train runs at the same times from Sheffield and generally arrives at Nottingham 1 min earlier. From Nottingham it will leave at xx45 and arrive Sheffield at xx38. The slightly faster running times are due to not calling at Langley Mill, which will instead be covered by the Northern service.

[jackh]

I wonder how long the Yorkshire Forward funding will last for the new fast service as it will bridge a few gaps in the public transport network which in turn should make decent revenue for Northern.

First of all, the new direct link between Leeds and Nottingham. Then theres the increase in frequency between Nottingham and Sheffield, Sheffield and Leeds which will bring much relief to those two sections in terms of capacity.

A link will be once restored between Nottingham, Chesterfield and Meadowhall which will provide fair size passenger flows between them.

I suppose 158 units will be used on the service, existing in the fleet already or more units leased for the service?

[Craig]

I would hope the new Nottingham service would be allocated 158 units, but then Northern do have a habit of putting Pacers or 153s on inappropriate services! And 2 hours on one of those from Leeds to Notts is hardly the best advert for public transport...

[nick]

According to Northern Wikapedea's page, the Leeds-Nottingham service will be run by 158 unit's, highly appropriate

[westyorkshirebus]

I believe Pacers are not cleared south of Chesterfield, so there won't be any chance of one appearing on the Nottingham services

[transportem]

Over the past month, I've noted a number of Northern 158 units around the Nottingham area, with both drivers and conductors on-board for route learning purposes.

The increase in services on the Sheffield - Chesterfield - Nottingham section is not before time. The decision by the DfT to remove all of East Midlands Train's centre carriages from their 158s and give them to Northern has produced horrendous overcrowding on this route, and so any congestion relief will be welcomed by those of us who use the route on a regular basis.

[glennh2]

The only con to these changes is the reduction in the service from Bradford/Halifax to Sowerby Bridge/Mytholmroyd to one train per hour most of the day

This has caused local opposition in the Calder Valley and hopefully can be put right in the future

[Burnside]

Oct 15, 2008 11:31:50 GMT 1 glennh2 said:

The only con to these changes is the reduction in the service from Bradford/Halifax to Sowerby Bridge/Mytholmroyd to one train per hour most of the day

This has caused local opposition in the Calder Valley and hopefully can be put right in the future

Yeah but does Halifax to Sowerby Bridge need more than one an hour with the large numbers of buses that are always seen in Sowerby Bridge centre?

It's not like they are being left with no alternative means of transport.

[SF07]

I'm sure that it would be more convienent for passengers to have a more regular train service direct to Leeds or Manchester rather than catching a bus to Halifax, Hebden Bridge or Todmorden.

That said, Mytholmroyd and Sowerby Bridge are well served by buses. Mytholmroyd has 6 buses per hour on the 590, 591, 592, 593 and 594 services, plus the 900, C and D services. Sowerby Bridge has 14 buses per hour on the 300, 528, 560, 566, 577/578 and 579 services.

But it can be a hassle for some people who have to make a connection by bus because they can't wait for the train, as they would have to get on a bus, pay £x.xx to the nearest 'busier' station, get off the bus, walk to the station (which can take a good 5-10 minutes or so in Halifax from bus to train station (could mention possible FreeTownBus but that's already been mentioned on here)), pay £x.xx for the train to get to go where they want to go.

[glennh2]

Mytholmroyd and Sowerby Bridge are well served by bus from Halifax, but not from Bradford- will these rail users decide to use their cars instead? I hope not.

[Craig]

Oct 16, 2008 15:55:24 GMT 1 SF07 said:

But it can be a hassle for some people who have to make a connection by bus because they can't wait for the train, as they would have to get on a bus, pay £x.xx to the nearest 'busier' station, get off the bus, walk to the station (which can take a good 5-10 minutes or so in Halifax from bus to train station (could mention possible FreeTownBus but that's already been mentioned on here)), pay £x.xx for the train to get to go where they want to go.

Or they could just wait for the next train, which might be a longer wait, but no service is being withdrawn.

[glennh2]

People can't always wait an hour for a train

I agree with the changes myself, but am not convinced the consequences of them for commuters in particular was thought through before they were announced

I know some peak stops have been inserted though which does help solve the problem

[Craig]

New CrossCountry timetable from Dec 2008

As previously discussed, nearly all XC trains via Leeds will from December run on the Plymouth to Edinburgh route, with some extensions to places further afield. The times of trains through Leeds station is relatively unchanged. For those interested, I have made up a summary timetable for Leeds departures for the Monday to Saturday service. If anyone wishes I can also post the Sunday timetable though of course that tends to change a lot with the various engineering posessions through the course of the timetable.

Southbound
0600 Plymouth (starts at Leeds)
0615 Reading (starts at Leeds, runs via Doncaster)
0705 Plymouth (starts at York)
0810 Plymouth (starts at Newcastle)
0910 Plymouth (starts at Edinburgh)
1010 Plymouth (M-F starts at Glasgow, Sat starts at Edinburgh)
1110 Plymouth (M-F starts at Dundee, Sat starts at Glasgow)
1210 Plymouth (starts at Dundee)
1310 Penzance (starts at Glasgow)
1410 Penzance (starts at Aberdeen)
1510 Penzance (starts at Edinburgh)
1610 Plymouth (starts at Edinburgh)
1710 Plymouth (starts at Edinburgh)
1810 Plymouth (starts at Edinburgh)
1910 Bristol (starts at Edinburgh)
2010 Bristol (Saturdays runs only to Birmingham) (starts at Edinburgh)
2110 Birmingham (starts at Edinburgh)

Northbound
0757 Edinburgh (starts from Birmingham)
0905 Edinburgh (starts from Birmingham)
1005 Edinburgh (starts from Bristol)
1105 Edinburgh (starts from Plymouth)
1205 Edinburgh (starts from Plymouth)
1305 Edinburgh (starts from Plymouth)
1405 Edinburgh (starts from Penzance)
1505 Aberdeen (starts from Plymouth)
1605 Glasgow (starts from Penzance)
1705 Dundee (starts from Plymouth)
1805 Glasgow (starts from Plymouth)
1835 Newcastle (starts from Reading)
1905 Edinburgh (starts from Plymouth)
2007 Edinburgh (starts from Plymouth)
2110 York (starts from Plymouth)
2207 from Plymouth terminates at Leeds
2329 from Plymouth terminates at Leeds

NB For ease of reading I have not indicated where arrivals/departures vary slightly between the M-F and Sat timetables.

[Burnside]

Erm... 07:10 Leeds to Aberdeen is NXEC, isn't it?

[Craig]

So it is... error now corrected!

[LukePA]

So are Cross Country running any services via Doncaster then??

i can't wait until the changes i will be used the new Nottingham service alot

[jackh]

Cross County already run services via Doncaster every two hours. Can't remember if it is the Green or Orange timetable though.

[LukePA]

Thanks Jack, I think its the green one

[Craig]

The Doncaster "green" route is hourly, and from December most will be running between Reading and Newcastle.

[SF07]

The new timetables for the separate lines are now available for download from the Metro website with the Network booklet to come soon.